Idle thoughts...

[DaBruinz]

1. The fact Ron Brace STILL can't get on the field is now VERY troubling. Still 11 of 12 isn't a bad draft. Brace has seen the field.

2. In the Jet game they clearly saw that the C was a weakness. They BLEW him up on every punt. I thnk we need some more beef in the interior of the punt formation. Not only is the snapper a lightweight, it looked like the other interior guys are also LB types. Other teams will notice this and try to exploit it. One punt got blocked and a few more were uncomfortably close. The center on the punt unit is the long snapper Jake Ingram. And no, they didn't blow him up. In fact, Devito came in between Ingram and whomever was lined up at the LG position and then plowed over Edelman who was lined up as the personal protector.

3. I'm liking this secondary more and more. Not just because of the pick but because of the tightness of the coverage. Even completions are, for the most part tightly contested. Wilhite's coverage on the Jets TD pass was excellent. It was just a perfectly thrown pass. I was happy his coverage got noticed on Boddin's 3rd pick. This is now a good secondary that will only get better as time goes on.

4. I hate to say it, but Derrell Revis IS that good. Thank god he plays for the Jets, and NOT a team that is relevent.

5. BTW, speaking of the Jets, if I were a fan of them, I would now start to be getting worried that he's a lot more like Jay Cutler than he is Tom Brady. He is capable of making some excellent throws, like the passes up the middle, and the TD throw, but JUST as "capable" of throwing the "I can't believe he just did that" throw. I had originally thought he was the franchise QB that poor Jet fans have longed for since Joe Willie left 40 years ago, but now I'm not sure. On the other hand, it's still real early in his career to make judgments one way or the other.

6. I want to go on record saying that if/when we meet the Colts again in the playoffs, I'm very confident, even in Indy. The Colts are having a dream season. They are getting break after break, and the one thing we know about getting all the breaks, is that eventually the worm turns. The escaped against us, and they did it again in Baltimore. I don't care if they win the rest of their games, because they ARE NOT going to beat the Pats again. Take that to the bank.

7. It should be a great game vs the Saints. They are a very exciting team and a great challenge. Its just bad luck that we have had to play BOTH the Colts and Saints on the road. But this offense doesn't get flustered in domes. I see us winning it.

8. Its pretty heartening when your THIRD string LT gets in the game and performs well. Brady had good time for the most part on Sunday, as his string of 300 yd games continues.

9. I do have a concern with the fact that Issiah Stanback is getting significant time as a WR. I think we need to bolster that position before the end of the season. Too often Brady has had EXTENDED time in the pocket and has been unable to find anyone.

Thanks for the vent

Stanbeck is getting extended time as the #3 WR because of Aiken being out and because Edelman is still recovering from his broken arm so the Pats seem to be limiting his use right now. That being said, Stanbeck is holding his own. I'd like to see the Pats line up Watson out there with Baker inside. I think that would make for a very interesting combination.

 

[Rob0729]

I wouldn't give up on Brace just yet. Warren and Wilfork both struggled a lot their rookie years and they were both first round picks. Brace comes from a one gap, 4-3 defense and is learning the 3-4 2 gap. It takes time.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I wouldn't give up on Brace just yet. Warren and Wilfork both struggled a lot their rookie years and they were both first round picks. Brace comes from a one gap, 4-3 defense and is learning the 3-4 2 gap. It takes time.

Warren and Wilfork were platooned with veterans their rookie year, any struggle was with technique - I can't speak for Warren, but Wilfork needed 1.5 seasons with several starts as a rookie to "get it." The report on Brace was he was struggling with technique before he was sat down after game two, I know he was listed with an ankle injury for the Colts. I'd like to see him playing more, the fact that he didn't while Green and Warren were out may have been defensive game plan related, along with the ankle injury he was nursing, but he's not going to get better with his technique unless he can practice it at game speeds.

I'm hoping that the time he's had to develop behind the big five has allowed Coaches Woicik and Nash to work on his conditioning to improve his explosiveness and stamina. I assume Pepper is all over his technique and his ability to "read" a block. NO is probably not the game to have him take a lot of reps, but if he can get a few snaps at NT (3-4 or 4-3) it would make me feel better about where he is in his development.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I was a bit worried about Brace too, until recently when someone else pointed out that Meriweather wasn't doing much until this season.

We've had an amazing draft class this year, and perhaps been spoiled by the instant success of so many players.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not worried at all about Brace in the long term. As someone mentioned, BJ Raji hasn't done much so far this season, either.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Idle thoughts.....

Probably would have bothered you in 2008 had be played. He's admitted it as has BB, but the rationale is he does so with sound reason. He finds the open receiver he trusts will be where he's supposed to be and make a catch these days... He counts on Moss and Welker because they have given him reason to. Watson never consistently did until early this season. Edleman is a rookie conversion project work in progress who's progress got interrupted and Stanback just emerged as a rookie conversion project in his first game.

Brady has been well conditioned to avoid costly mistakes and turnovers. He needs time and reps with his evolving #3 and #4 to even begin to trust them under pressure. Hopefully by season's end that will be there. Would like to see that developed between Brady and Maroney as well, similar to the trust he feels with Faulk.

I know he's admitted it, I know this season his #3 & #4 receivers have been unstable and his TEs have been used more to keep him upright. Edelman's three receptions and Stanback's one against the Jest is about right for what Gaffney saw in 2007 - especially with Welker being the hot hand. I really have no problem with the Jest game - he went to the hot hand to move the chains and he kept the defense honest by testing Revis on Moss, his numbers for Faulk and the #3/4 guys were 2007 standard.

It's the overall season, the 2007 season, and looking back to 2006 too, that has me saying Tommy is trying to put too much onto his own shoulders and he's trying too hard to get the ball to Moss - not so much Welker who is almost always open. In 2006 he went to Watson 49 times because he was still getting comfortable with Reche and Jabar - it's cool, but he tried to force the ball to Watson in the middle of the field in the AFCCG while Evans was open and uncovered along the sideline ready to pick up yardage and stop the clock - he tried to do too much and he looked first to his "main" man. In 2007 he and Moss were chasing records and he got in the habit of looking there first to try and push that effort along - it mostly worked out okay, but it also may have developed bad habits.

With Edelman coming back and putting forth the effort he did against the Jets we can hope Brady will look to him more often to spread the ball around. He's got 26, Gaffney had 36 in 2007 - ideal in my mind would be for Edelman to average 3/game to get him up over 40 for the season and make him a stronger threat in DC's minds. It would also be a sign that Tommy is developing the same trust he has with Moss, Welker, Watson, and Faulk - that's what we need is Tommy once again feeling he can go to any receiver to get what he needs on that play.

Hopefully Watson and Baker can get out into the pattern more to force more honesty from the defenses. Watson is getting his "normal" touches if you look back to 2007 (36), Ben is getting 2/game in 2009. Faulk is getting his "normal" touches (3/game), Morris coming back will help there too. Maroney would be nice, but I think O'Brien is liking how LoMo is such a great play action decoy.

The bottom line, other than Welker leading the NFL in receptions again, there are no records of note to chase. It's time to settle down and do a better job of looking to the other receivers in order to put more pressure on the defenses they face.

 

[patfanken]

I'm not worried at all about Brace in the long term. As someone mentioned, BJ Raji hasn't done much so far this season, either.

Normally I'd agree with you but Raji, etc are not doing much ON THE FIELD. Wilfolk, Merriweather, and Warren, all struggled their first year, but they did their struggling ON THE FIELD. The fact that he's not even getting on the field is what is concerning me. If he were on the field and not that impressive, I'd be less worried. We are getting very thin on the DL now, and the fact that he STILL can't get on the field isn't good.

 

[patfanken]

Stanbeck is getting extended time as the #3 WR because of Aiken being out and because Edelman is still recovering from his broken arm so the Pats seem to be limiting his use right now. That being said, Stanbeck is holding his own. I'd like to see the Pats line up Watson out there with Baker inside. I think that would make for a very interesting combination.

Let me make it clear, I have no problem with Standback. I think that given the circumstances, he's doing an exceptional job, both on the field and during the week on scout teams. However he is what he is, which is a 4.7 former QB, who faild as a WR convert with the WR depeleted Cowboys. He's NOT a guy I want to see at WR on any regular basis.

 

[Deus Irae]

Normally I'd agree with you but Raji, etc are not doing much ON THE FIELD. Wilfolk, Merriweather, and Warren, all struggled their first year, but they did their struggling ON THE FIELD. The fact that he's not even getting on the field is what is concerning me. If he were on the field and not that impressive, I'd be less worried. We are getting very thin on the DL now, and the fact that he STILL can't get on the field isn't good.

To be fair, now that Seymour is in Oakland, Brace is backing up the one player on the line that the team can least afford not to have on the field for 1st and 2nd down. Then, when it comes to 3rd down, Brace is not exactly going to be the substitution you make against the pass. I would, though, agree that his not getting time in games where the team is flexing Wilfork out to end is a bad sign. I'd just note that rookies advance at their own pace, with some making a seamless jump and others being all but hopeless in year 1.

 

[mayoclinic]

Rookies advance at their own pace, with some making a seemless jump and others being all but hopeless in year 1.

I would agree with this. I remember one 6th round QB who was on the practice squad most of his rookie year, and played in all of one game completing 1 of 3 passes for 6 yards and a 42.4 QB rating before becoming going on to greatness (and the SB) the following season.

Brace isn't getting playing time right now because their are 5 guys ahead of him on the depth chart. The one game that we could have used him was when we were thinnest at DL, but that came against a team where his skill set were least likely to help us.

He's advancing at his own pace. Give him another year to see what he has.

 

[Patspsycho]

Let me make it clear, I have no problem with Standback. I think that given the circumstances, he's doing an exceptional job, both on the field and during the week on scout teams. However he is what he is, which is a 4.7 former QB, who faild as a WR convert with the WR depeleted Cowboys. He's NOT a guy I want to see at WR on any regular basis.

Failed? On what basis? He was not out of place in any of the snaps he was on the field. Ran his routes correctly, and was within the rhythm of the plays.

 

[DaBruinz]

Let me make it clear, I have no problem with Standback. I think that given the circumstances, he's doing an exceptional job, both on the field and during the week on scout teams. However he is what he is, which is a 4.7 former QB, who faild as a WR convert with the WR depeleted Cowboys. He's NOT a guy I want to see at WR on any regular basis.

I am very surprised that you have that attitude, PFK.. You should know, as well as anyone, that just because a player doesn't do well with one team means that he'll do fail with another. Also, I'm not sure how you can call the Cowboys 'WR Starved" whenthey had T.O, Crayton, Williams abd Austin ahead of Stanback at WR. Not to mention Witten, Barber, and Choice as receiver options.

Also, Stanback wasn't exactly a failure with the Cowboys. One of the reasons he signed with them was to be a QB and they had said he'd get reps there. Well, that never materialized and Stanback felt like they weren't fully honest with him because of it.. When he signed with the Pats, one of the reason was because they were going to actually use him as a QB. Stanback's been the scout team QB as well as working with the WRs.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Does anyone else have doubts about the '4.7' number that's being thrown around as proof that Stanback doesn't have speed? That's a slow time for a tight end, let alone a running back or receiver. And yet the Patriots had Stanback returning a kick, if I recall correctly (and activated him in advance of Terence Nunn). He didn't look slow to me.

 

[Mack Herron]

Very skeptical of that one Mike. Watching him run with the other receivers, he looked fast to me.

 

[Kasmir]

Does anyone else have doubts about the '4.7' number that's being thrown around as proof that Stanback doesn't have speed? That's a slow time for a tight end, let alone a running back or receiver.

Wes Welker does OK at WR and as a PR with 4.8 speed

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Idle thoughts.....

I know he's admitted it, I know this season his #3 & #4 receivers have been unstable and his TEs have been used more to keep him upright. Edelman's three receptions and Stanback's one against the Jest is about right for what Gaffney saw in 2007 - especially with Welker being the hot hand. I really have no problem with the Jest game - he went to the hot hand to move the chains and he kept the defense honest by testing Revis on Moss, his numbers for Faulk and the #3/4 guys were 2007 standard.

It's the overall season, the 2007 season, and looking back to 2006 too, that has me saying Tommy is trying to put too much onto his own shoulders and he's trying too hard to get the ball to Moss - not so much Welker who is almost always open. In 2006 he went to Watson 49 times because he was still getting comfortable with Reche and Jabar - it's cool, but he tried to force the ball to Watson in the middle of the field in the AFCCG while Evans was open and uncovered along the sideline ready to pick up yardage and stop the clock - he tried to do too much and he looked first to his "main" man. In 2007 he and Moss were chasing records and he got in the habit of looking there first to try and push that effort along - it mostly worked out okay, but it also may have developed bad habits.

With Edelman coming back and putting forth the effort he did against the Jets we can hope Brady will look to him more often to spread the ball around. He's got 26, Gaffney had 36 in 2007 - ideal in my mind would be for Edelman to average 3/game to get him up over 40 for the season and make him a stronger threat in DC's minds. It would also be a sign that Tommy is developing the same trust he has with Moss, Welker, Watson, and Faulk - that's what we need is Tommy once again feeling he can go to any receiver to get what he needs on that play.

Hopefully Watson and Baker can get out into the pattern more to force more honesty from the defenses. Watson is getting his "normal" touches if you look back to 2007 (36), Ben is getting 2/game in 2009. Faulk is getting his "normal" touches (3/game), Morris coming back will help there too. Maroney would be nice, but I think O'Brien is liking how LoMo is such a great play action decoy.

The bottom line, other than Welker leading the NFL in receptions again, there are no records of note to chase. It's time to settle down and do a better job of looking to the other receivers in order to put more pressure on the defenses they face.

Kudos. I too hope for TFB to re-acquire the pre-2007 tendency to consider the entire field, look for the open man vs the Moss over emphasis To make this be the habit, it requires 3rd & 4th choices that he can rely on. I see it happening, especially with Edelman whom I see developing as a more agile Givens.

 

[patfanken]

I am very surprised that you have that attitude, PFK.. You should know, as well as anyone, that just because a player doesn't do well with one team means that he'll do fail with another. Also, I'm not sure how you can call the Cowboys 'WR Starved" whenthey had T.O, Crayton, Williams abd Austin ahead of Stanback at WR. Not to mention Witten, Barber, and Choice as receiver options.

Also, Stanback wasn't exactly a failure with the Cowboys. One of the reasons he signed with them was to be a QB and they had said he'd get reps there. Well, that never materialized and Stanback felt like they weren't fully honest with him because of it.. When he signed with the Pats, one of the reason was because they were going to actually use him as a QB. Stanback's been the scout team QB as well as working with the WRs.

OK that might be a fair assessment. I'm only giving you an opinion based on what I see on TV. My concern is that when Moss and Welker seem to be covered, there doesn't seem to be anyone else open....and given the tight coverage Moss and Welker get....THEY SHOULD BE...ya think?

BTW- Given that everyone was so high on Nunn, (and so was I). Anyone wondering why he hasn't been given a shot to play. That the Pats brought in a guy like Standback, and promoted him OVER Nunn. Just wondering. Maybe as the vets got more and more up to speed, Nunn, hasn't??????

 

[Patspsycho]

OK that might be a fair assessment. I'm only giving you an opinion based on what I see on TV. My concern is that when Moss and Welker seem to be covered, there doesn't seem to be anyone else open....and given the tight coverage Moss and Welker get....THEY SHOULD BE...ya think?

BTW- Given that everyone was so high on Nunn, (and so was I). Anyone wondering why he hasn't been given a shot to play. That the Pats brought in a guy like Standback, and promoted him OVER Nunn. Just wondering. Maybe as the vets got more and more up to speed, Nunn, hasn't??????

I think it's been discussed that this is more to do with Brady's tendency to go 1-2, rather than find the open man. I mean what we see on TV is not the whole picture because obviously they zoom in too tight on plays on the field and we don't have access to the bird's eye footage. So who are we to judge who's really open and who's not?

That being said, I don't think Brady's 1-2 issue is a true problem. It may have been the game plan against the Jets because they didn't play against Welker in week 2, and BB may have wanted to take maximum advantage of the probability that they would underestimate him to the extent of not having any real game plan for him (which turned out to be true).

He did throw to Edelman, Baker, and Watson for key downs in the past 2 games.

 

[RodThePat]

Re: Idle thoughts.....

Kudos. I too hope for TFB to re-acquire the pre-2007 tendency to consider the entire field, look for the open man vs the Moss over emphasis To make this be the habit, it requires 3rd & 4th choices that he can rely on. I see it happening, especially with Edelman whom I see developing as a more agile Givens.

Yeah, like it's Tom Brady's fault.

You have Moss and Welker and then Watson, Edelman, Aiken, Stanback and Baker. The dropoff is absolutely ridiculous. Any sane person would look for the first two extensively before even considering throwing the ball to the rest of them.

In 07 you had Stallworth and Gaffney, and prior to that we didn't have such a disparity of talent amongst our receiving corps, so obviously the ball got spread around much more.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Idle thoughts.....

Yeah, like it's Tom Brady's fault.

You have Moss and Welker and then Watson, Edelman, Aiken, Stanback and Baker. The dropoff is absolutely ridiculous. Any sane person would look for the first two extensively before even considering throwing the ball to the rest of them.

In 07 you had Stallworth and Gaffney, and prior to that we didn't have such a disparity of talent amongst our receiving corps, so obviously the ball got spread around much more.

His favorite receiver used to be the open one. That's not always the case now, and I think that's what people are noticing.