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4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here [merged 10x]


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VJCPatriot

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I'm sorry. BB is usually a genius but he outthought himself this time. Should have punted the ball and forced the Colts to move down the field and use up their timeouts. Our use of timeouts in the second half was also awful.
 
Re: 4th and 2 on your own 30 yard line... and you go for it?

he went for it bc it was pretty obv the D couldn`t stop ****.....

was the smartest thing he actaully could have done
 
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re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I was shocked, obviously, although it was a first down.

If they knew they were going on 4th they should have run on 3rd. Then run again on 4th assuming they gained at least a few inches.
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

It was a damn idiotic call and he deserves to be castigated by every sports fan, critic, and participant in the nation.
 
Re: 4th and 2 on your own 30 yard line... and you go for it?

it worked against ATL and not here . having said that BB outcoached himself and he did something similar last yr @ indy. Somehome the colts making him outthink himself .
and if had timeout he couldve challenged it becasue i thought faulk got it....
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Please keep the discussion of that play in this one thread. Let's try and keep the board from getting filled with similar threads if possible.
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Manning is in his head, that's the problem. Wasn't like this five years ago.
 
Re: 4th and 2 on your own 30 yard line... and you go for it?

he went for it bc it was pretty obv the D couldn`t stop ****.....

was the smartest thing he actaully could have done

Except for the 2 picks in the second half.
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

It was a damn idiotic call and he deserves to be castigated by every sports fan, critic, and participant in the nation.

I agree with going for it- I just don't agree with the calls on 3rd and 2 and 4th and 2. If you can't move the ball 2 yards in 2 downs, pack up and go home for the season. Run the ball FFS
 
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Re: 4th and 2 on your own 30 yard line... and you go for it?

Mind-boggling, couldn't believe he made that call.

Rodney Harrison in post-game "That was the worst Bill Belichick decision I've ever seen". He (Harrison) looked like he was going to cry.
 
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re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

It says a couple things...


Belichick does not believe in a defense that played ok tonight , better than it has in Indy in the past...


Belichick knows he has no running game to speak of... Maroney is a joke...


And its safe to say , we may make the playoffs but we are not winning 3 games to go to the super bowl..
 
Re: 4th and 2 on your own 30 yard line... and you go for it?

it worked against ATL and not here . having said that BB outcoached himself and he did something similar last yr @ indy. Somehome the colts making him outthink himself .
and if had timeout he couldve challenged it becasue i thought faulk got it....
No doubt in my mind he got it, he hadn't been pushed back when he made the oh so brief bobble. I guess there's a reason (Butler says HI too) that home teams win almost every time with that reffing crew.
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

If it was a mistake, it was a minor one...
read this
Advanced NFL Stats: Belichick's 4th Down Decision vs the Colts
Belichick's 4th Down Decision vs the Colts

New England coach Bill Belichick is taking a lot of heat for his decision to attempt a 4th down conversion late in the game against the Colts. Indianapolis came back to win in dramatic fashion. Was the decision a good one?

With 2:00 left and the Colts with only one timeout, a successful conversion wins the game for all practical purposes. A 4th and 2 conversion would be successful 60% of the time. Historically, in a situation with 2:00 left and needing a TD to either win or tie, teams get the TD 53% of the time from that field position. The total WP for the 4th down conversion attempt would therefore be:

(0.60 * 1) + (0.40 * (1-0.53)) = 0.79 WP

A punt from the 28 typically nets 38 yards, starting the Colts at their own 34. Teams historically get the TD 30% of the time in that situation. So the punt gives the Pats about a 0.70 WP.

Statistically, the better decision would be to go for it, and by a good amount. However, these numbers are baselines for the league as a whole. You'd have to expect the Colts had a better than a 30% chance of scoring from their 34, and an accordingly higher chance to score from the Pats' 28. But any adjustment in their likelihood of scoring from either field position increases the advantage of going for it. You can play with the numbers any way you like, but it's pretty hard to come up with a realistic combination of numbers that make punting the better option. At best, you could make it a wash.
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

listen - its was a BS spot. If they didn't burn the TOs, they could have challenged it. I feel horrible about this one.

Once again, BB was forced to go for it cause he knew the defense was a sieve. Time after time - like all 4 superbowls, the AFCCG - just seems like they get too passive and a good QB like Manning can just shred them.

It was the right call.

If you want to get mad at somebody, what about Maroney? Played two games in Indy in his career, Pats lost both by less than a score each, and he fumbled into the endzone both times. Unacceptable.

Kaz also got lit up all night. Vollmer to RT and Light back in at LT.
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I agree with going for it- I just don't agree with the calls on 3rd and 2 and 4th and 2. If you can't move the ball 2 yards in 2 downs, pack up and go home for the season. Run the ball FFS

brady couldve sneaked twice for 2 yards...with 5 RB's on the roster we do this crap somehow...
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

It shouldnt of even come to that. The fu##in refs blew another call. They called a pass interference on the pats that was not at all, and as far as the the 4th and 2, I think Faulk made the first but the Fu##in A##hole refs blew the call.
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

It was a damn idiotic call and he deserves to be castigated by every sports fan, critic, and participant in the nation.

Oh he will, trust me, this is what they've waited for.

Rodney called it the worst decision he's seen Belichick make. Brady defended him, but of course he's going to do that. It may have lingering effects on the defense because he was basically telling them I don't trust you to stop Peyton from going 70 yards in two minutes with one timeout. Not that it should matter, if the defense would have come to play in the fourth quarter, none of this would have happened.
 
Statistically speaking, going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call

Advanced NFL stats had a 4 part series on going for it on 4th down:

Advanced NFL Stats: The 4th Down Study - Part 1

Here's the relevant graph:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/3688516023_07450826e5_o.png

(if you can't see it, it's the last graph on this link:

Advanced NFL Stats: The 4th Down Study - Part 4)

If the 1st down was made, belichick would look like a genius. The grumbling about the call is pure hindsight bias.

He also has a writeup about this particular call:

Belichick's 4th Down Decision vs the Colts

New England coach Bill Belichick is taking a lot of heat for his decision to attempt a 4th down conversion late in the game against the Colts. Indianapolis came back to win in dramatic fashion. Was the decision a good one?

With 2:00 left and the Colts with only one timeout, a successful conversion wins the game for all practical purposes. A 4th and 2 conversion would be successful 60% of the time. Historically, in a situation with 2:00 left and needing a TD to either win or tie, teams get the TD 53% of the time from that field position. The total WP for the 4th down conversion attempt would therefore be:

(0.60 * 1) + (0.40 * (1-0.53)) = 0.79 WP

A punt from the 28 typically nets 38 yards, starting the Colts at their own 34. Teams historically get the TD 30% of the time in that situation. So the punt gives the Pats about a 0.70 WP.

Statistically, the better decision would be to go for it, and by a good amount. However, these numbers are baselines for the league as a whole. You'd have to expect the Colts had a better than a 30% chance of scoring from their 34, and an accordingly higher chance to score from the Pats' 28. But any adjustment in their likelihood of scoring from either field position increases the advantage of going for it. You can play with the numbers any way you like, but it's pretty hard to come up with a realistic combination of numbers that make punting the better option. At best, you could make it a wash.

Advanced NFL Stats: Belichick's 4th Down Decision vs the Colts
 
re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Honestly, I initially hated the decision to go for it, but after giving it a little thought, I actually agree with it 100%.

It comes down to which of the two scenarios you find to be more likely....

A.) Stop the Colts on 4 plays to win the game.

or

B.) Get two yards on one play


I actually like that Belicheck decided to go for it EVEN KNOWING THE FAILED OUTCOME.

I fully believe that punting the ball would still have led to a Manning score.

It just completely sucks that we didn't get the two yards.

Just because it did not work doesn't make it a bad decision though.
 
Re: Statistically speaking, going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call

That says on 4th and 2 with 70 yards to go you punt. Doesn't it ? :confused:
 
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