Defensive Snaps

[PaulThePat]

Just been reading Mike Riess's excellent blogs on the Tampa game and the one which caught my eye was the snap count for defensive players.

ILB Jerod Mayo -- 56 of 61
S Brandon Meriweather -- 56 of 61
S Brandon McGowan -- 56 of 61
DE/OLB Derrick Burgess -- 53 of 61
CB Leigh Bodden -- 53 of 61
DE/OLB Tully Banta-Cain -- 50 of 61
CB Darius Butler -- 49 of 61
ILB Gary Guyton -- 47 of 61
CB Jonathan Wilhite -- 47 of 61
S Pat Chung -- 36 of 61
DE Ty Warren -- 27 of 61
DL Myron Pryor -- 26 of 61
DT Vince Wilfork -- 24 of 61
DL Jarvis Green -- 23 of 61
OLB Adalius Thomas -- 18 of 61
ILB Junior Seau -- 16 of 61
DL Mike Wright -- 15 of 61
S James Sanders -- 12 of 61
S Bret Lockett -- 5 of 61
CB Shawn Springs -- 2 of 61

Despite following the Pats for over 27 years I've never been too clued in as to the rotation of players and formations. I keep it simple, our offence scores and the defence stops scores. However, looking at those snaps there is a heck of a lot of players who play less snaps than I thought they did.

Can someone tell me why the likes of Wilfork, Green, Thomas and Warren play in less than half of the defensive downs ? Others like Burgess, Banta-Cain and Guyton play much, much more. Thing is I would always label Vince Wilfork as a key player yet he seems to see relatively little action compared to other players.

This thread may seem dumb to those who understand more of the tactics and strategy so applogies in advance. However, if someone can take a moment to explain to me the spread of defensive snaps it would be appreciated.

Paul

ps. Shawn Springs 2 snaps

 

[JSn]

These are actually the kind of threads that make this forum great (with mad props to Mike Reiss).

Boy, that Derrick Burgess is a real disappointment, eh? It's funny, because it's hard to tell WHY he's seeing the field so much, but he sure is out there a lot.

These rotations might also speak to the Pats having this game in hand pretty early, and definitely speak to the depth. Butler and Chung's snaps are skyrocketing, and that's good news. They need to be ready for the next batch of games.

 

[BelichickFan]

Can someone tell me why the likes of Wilfork, Green, Thomas and Warren play in less than half of the defensive downs ?

They subbed early and often, it was half a bye and a chance to look at some other guys. We could have started Hoyer and won that game.

 

[BelichickFan]

Butler and Chung's snaps are skyrocketing, and that's good news. They need to be ready for the next batch of games.

Chung could be interesting coming up, we could well play Meriweather, McGowan and Chung against the Wildcat and then with the Colts, Jets, Saints, all with strong TE, McGowan will play a big part there and Chung might get some time as the 2nd "true" Safety.

 

[Synovia]

Can someone tell me why the likes of Wilfork, Green, Thomas and Warren play in less than half of the defensive downs ? Others like Burgess, Banta-Cain and Guyton play much, much more. Thing is I would always label Vince Wilfork as a key player yet he seems to see relatively little action compared to other players.

1) Its one game. One game in which Wilfork was coming off an injury, Warren got hurt during the game, etc.

2) Guyton plays every snap because hes a very good LB.

I'm stealing a chart from user SoxScout on SOSH:

 

[JackBauer]

Interesting to see Burgess turning the corner perhaps?

 

[Synovia]

Part 2 with part timers

 

[xmarkd400x]

I think you have to have a heavy rotation on your defensive line if you want them to be fresh for any length of time. They are brawling down there in the trenches, and you can't really do that too many times in a row.

Also, these numbers might be skewed by the amount of garbage time in the TB game. I'd be interested to see the snaps before Brady came out.

Although, to argue against myself, BB has been known to keep the defensive starters in to preserve a shutout.

Who knows!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm still concerned about AD. A minority of snaps for the big FA star, about the same as the 40+ year old locker room leader.

As to the DL, the factors as discissed (1) Wilfie's lingering ankle (2) Warren's in game injury, (3) the ability to rotate a cadre of DLs, all capable, such that the guys who make full strength contact on EVERY PLAY (even the LBs don't) are fresh

 

[DarrylS]

Have felt confident all along that BB is on the verge of transforming traditional defenses, and morphing into something different, with a heavy emphasis on safeties... felt he wanted to to do it with Tank Williams last year, and with the emergence of McGowan and drafting Chung think it is getting closer and closer...

Have to remember that prior to LT becoming a Giant in 1980, the OLB was a very vanilla position.. BB was the LB coach, and even though Parcells was the coach, BB was the position guy...

Nothing to base it on, but will predict that our base d will defy definition by the end of this season or by the begining of next...

 

[Jimke]

One player whose snaps disappeared completely this past game was

Pierre Woods. When the Patriots play the 4-3, Guyton is the outside

linebacker.

 

[Synovia]

Have to remember that prior to LT becoming a Giant in 1980, the OLB was a very vanilla position.. BB was the LB coach, and even though Parcells was the coach, BB was the position guy...

I'm sure part of it was BB's innovation, but part of it was also that LT was a generational talent. He was essentially a defensive end who could move like a LB. Putting a guy who could rush the passer that well back at LB gave you a lot of flexibility.


Now, if you can get a LB that moves like a Safety (IE, that hybrid role), you've got a similar thing going on.

 

[borg]

The numbers tell me that the Patriots D was in a 2-4-5 defense.
Positional groupings on field per play =
DL=1.8
ILB=2
OLB=2
S=2.7
CB=2.5

 

[tbrown]

I have wondered about this as well but was afraid to ask. Another possibly silly question is how do the players (off and def) know so quickly that they are to come off the field once a play has ended - i.e. that they are not in for the next play? Are there hand signals that someone on the sideline shows or something - they seem to glance over and know right away. Again sorry if this is a dumb question.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

One player whose snaps disappeared completely this past game was

Pierre Woods. When the Patriots play the 4-3, Guyton is the outside

linebacker.

Assuming he didn't suddenly get the flu or somesuch, based on 2009 half season results and snaps it's looking like Pierre likely will not get a renewal when his one year contract expires.

 

[DarrylS]

I'm sure part of it was BB's innovation, but part of it was also that LT was a generational talent. He was essentially a defensive end who could move like a LB. Putting a guy who could rush the passer that well back at LB gave you a lot of flexibility.


Now, if you can get a LB that moves like a Safety (IE, that hybrid role), you've got a similar thing going on.

Do not disagree, LT was a once in a lifetime talent, but when you coach someone you have to know how to make the parts all fit and work... Parcells generally gets all the credit, but BB was either his position coach or Def Coordinator of #56 through just about all of his career... cannot think of a comparison, but confident there are somewhat comparable talents out there whose talents have not been maximized through innovation or good coaching.

 

[Synovia]

The numbers tell me that the Patriots D was in a 2-4-5 defense.
Positional groupings on field per play =
DL=1.8
ILB=2
OLB=2
S=2.7
CB=2.5

Kind of. TBC and Burgess play as much DE as they do LB. Its tough to tell looking at the stats.

 

[Synovia]

Assuming he didn't suddenly get the flu or somesuch, based on 2009 half season results and snaps it's looking like Pierre likely will not get a renewal when his one year contract expires.

Woods is playing 35% of the snaps, and is great on special teams. If hes cheap, I'd think hes back.


You need depth, and Woods is a pretty good depth piece.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Woods is playing 35% of the snaps, and is great on special teams. If hes cheap, I'd think hes back.


You need depth, and Woods is a pretty good depth piece.

Agreed. Woods is not explosive enough in the pass-rush to get more reps. OK vs the run. Solid in STs...

 

[Synovia]

Do not disagree, LT was a once in a lifetime talent, but when you coach someone you have to know how to make the parts all fit and work... Parcells generally gets all the credit, but BB was either his position coach or Def Coordinator of #56 through just about all of his career...

Oh, of course. One of BB's strengths has been finding the right role for guys.

cannot think of a comparison, but confident there are somewhat comparable talents out there whose talents have not been maximized through innovation or good coaching.

I'm sure there are plenty of them. Roy Williams sticks out to me: Fantastic run defender who isn't fast enough to be a safety. He would have worked real well as a hybrid S/LB.