Pats-Ravens: Thoughts After the Replay

[mayoclinic]

Watched the replay of the game on NFLN. Some thoughts that come to mind:

1. I think both roughing penalties against the Ravens have to be called. Neither seemed flagrant, dirty or with intent to harm to me. In part, both were caused by the terrific speed at which the game was played. But under NFL rules, a forearm to the face/head of the QB has to be called every time. And the Suggs play was clearly at Brady's legs, the kind of play that could very easily have resulted in an injury, intentional or not. I certainly did not see any flagrant difference in the way the refs called the game between the two teams.

2. I was impressed again by the overall speed and intensity on both sides. Two very good teams. If the Ravens just shut up and played they'd be a lot better. Flacco and Rice are the real deal.

3. The Pats did a fabulous job of adjusting after Derrick Mason shredded them on the first drive.

4. D*mn Meriweather and McGowan are good. They are all over the place, with a nose for the ball, and hit like a ton of bricks. Meriweather clearly outplayed Ed Reed in that game.

5. I'm not a huge James Sanders fan and he certainly didn't shine like McGowan and Meriweather, but I really can't blame him for missing the tackle on Ray Rice. Rice was moving like a bat out of h*ll, and I don't know anyone that makes that tackle on him at that angle. Rice is a beast.

6. Butler looks like the real deal. He does not look at all like a rookie CB. Butler and Bodden will be one of the top CB tandems in the league by the end of the year at this rate. The blanket coverage and big hitting by the secondary at the end of each half was the difference in the game.

7. The DL and overall pressure looked the best it has all year.

8. Both touchdowns scored by opposing defenses against our offense so far this season came on outstanding plays by the other team. But giving up those kind of scores is devastating. Just devastating. The game almost turned around on the Suggs play.

9. The only call where we got lucky was the fake field goal. It was clearly a catch. And I can understand the refs ruling that we made the 1st down - it's a judgment call, and NFL refs have always seemed pretty liberal in where they spot the ball when an offensive player reaches out with the ball. But it was a generous spot, and could easily have gone against us.

10. No way did Willis McGahee make it on 4th and 1. His momentum was stopped, his knee was down, and then he tried to reach the ball forward to get the spot.

11. Having Brady roll out to his right on the last Pats offensive play was a bad call. He's not a good QB throwing on the run, especially not now. Dumb call. It was not a controlled throw.

12. LoMo didn't look bad to me. He was fabulous on the catch and run, and he was running hard with minimal dancing on the carries that I saw. In most cases there just weren't yards to be had against a top run defense. I actually think he could have a big game against Denver.

13. Hanson really hurt us in that game. Pinning the opponent deep could have made a huge difference, and he blew it at least twice. For a guy without a particularly big leg, he's got to be able to pin the ball inside the 20.

Great game the second time around. Playoff caliber game in terms of both intensity and quality of play.

I think the Ravens are a fabulous team. But I doubt they make it to the elite level if they continue to whine and make excuses every time things don't go their way. They need to become mentally tougher. The Pats, Indy, Pittsburgh and the Giants are all in a different league in terms of mental toughness, even though the Ravens are comparable in terms of overall talent and ability. They remind me a bit of San Diego in that regard.

Again, great game. Great win.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Ravens lack the mental toughness to be a great team. They allow a few questionable calls to rattle them. The refs did not hand the Patriots 14 points; the penalties resulted in 30 total yards, and they weren't even near crunch time in the game. If you're going to blame the game on 30 total yards worth of penalties, you have some big issues.

It's not like these were 50 yard Pass Interference penalties.

 

[Frezo]

In the first half, maybe the first qtr, Flacco had a pass disrupted when a Pat hit his arm during the throwing motion. Oher caught the pass. Isn't that an illegal forward pass to a tackle?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

In the first half, maybe the first qtr, Flacco had a pass disrupted when a Pat hit his arm during the throwing motion. Oher caught the pass. Isn't that an illegal forward pass to a tackle?

I'd have to go back and look at the play, but I'm fairly sure they changed the rule a bit recently.

In any case, IIRC, once a player on D touches the ball, any player on O can catch the ball.

 

[mayoclinic]

In the first half, maybe the first qtr, Flacco had a pass disrupted when a Pat hit his arm during the throwing motion. Oher caught the pass. Isn't that an illegal forward pass to a tackle?

Yes, that's what I thought when I saw the replay. Oher should have knocked the ball down. As far as I could see, Flacco's arm was hit but the ball wasn't tipped, which might make a difference (I think it's ok for an OL to catch a deflected ball, though I'm not sure).

 

[PatsDeb]

In the first half, maybe the first qtr, Flacco had a pass disrupted when a Pat hit his arm during the throwing motion. Oher caught the pass. Isn't that an illegal forward pass to a tackle?

The ball was tipped, so the answer is no. The ref even said it during the game. No flag because the ball was tipped & the lineman became eligible.

 

[spacecrime]

I think the Ravens are a fabulous team. But I doubt they make it to the elite level if they continue to whine and make excuses every time things don't go their way. They need to become mentally tougher. The Pats, Indy, Pittsburgh and the Giants are all in a different league in terms of mental toughness, even though the Ravens are comparable in terms of overall talent and ability. They remind me a bit of San Diego in that regard.

I never would have come up with this myself, but now that you say it, it is obvious to me. Good analysis.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Ngata roughing penalty was a joke. The Suggs roughing penalty had intent behind it and deserved to be called. The Wright roughing penalty was also iffy, but it was a helmet hit and the rules are the rules.

One of the more iffy penalties that's largely been ignored is the PI call against the Ravens on the pass to Welker. That could have really gone either way, but it didn't impact the play. That was just a bad, bad throw. I really thought they could have let that one go. Obviously, though, being that I'm a Pats fan I really don't care that they called it.

 

[Patspsycho]

Watched the replay of the game on NFLN. Some thoughts that come to mind:

1. I think both roughing penalties against the Ravens have to be called. Neither seemed flagrant, dirty or with intent to harm to me. In part, both were caused by the terrific speed at which the game was played. But under NFL rules, a forearm to the face/head of the QB has to be called every time. And the Suggs play was clearly at Brady's legs, the kind of play that could very easily have resulted in an injury, intentional or not. I certainly did not see any flagrant difference in the way the refs called the game between the two teams.

2. I was impressed again by the overall speed and intensity on both sides. Two very good teams. If the Ravens just shut up and played they'd be a lot better. Flacco and Rice are the real deal.

3. The Pats did a fabulous job of adjusting after Derrick Mason shredded them on the first drive.

4. D*mn Meriweather and McGowan are good. They are all over the place, with a nose for the ball, and hit like a ton of bricks. Meriweather clearly outplayed Ed Reed in that game.

5. I'm not a huge James Sanders fan and he certainly didn't shine like McGowan and Meriweather, but I really can't blame him for missing the tackle on Ray Rice. Rice was moving like a bat out of h*ll, and I don't know anyone that makes that tackle on him at that angle. Rice is a beast.

6. Butler looks like the real deal. He does not look at all like a rookie CB. Butler and Bodden will be one of the top CB tandems in the league by the end of the year at this rate. The blanket coverage and big hitting by the secondary at the end of each half was the difference in the game.

7. The DL and overall pressure looked the best it has all year.

8. Both touchdowns scored by opposing defenses against our offense so far this season came on outstanding plays by the other team. But giving up those kind of scores is devastating. Just devastating. The game almost turned around on the Suggs play.

9. The only call where we got lucky was the fake field goal. It was clearly a catch. And I can understand the refs ruling that we made the 1st down - it's a judgment call, and NFL refs have always seemed pretty liberal in where they spot the ball when an offensive player reaches out with the ball. But it was a generous spot, and could easily have gone against us.

10. No way did Willis McGahee make it on 4th and 1. His momentum was stopped, his knee was down, and then he tried to reach the ball forward to get the spot.

11. Having Brady roll out to his right on the last Pats offensive play was a bad call. He's not a good QB throwing on the run, especially not now. Dumb call. It was not a controlled throw.

12. LoMo didn't look bad to me. He was fabulous on the catch and run, and he was running hard with minimal dancing on the carries that I saw. In most cases there just weren't yards to be had against a top run defense. I actually think he could have a big game against Denver.

13. Hanson really hurt us in that game. Pinning the opponent deep could have made a huge difference, and he blew it at least twice. For a guy without a particularly big leg, he's got to be able to pin the ball inside the 20.

Great game the second time around. Playoff caliber game in terms of both intensity and quality of play.

I think the Ravens are a fabulous team. But I doubt they make it to the elite level if they continue to whine and make excuses every time things don't go their way. They need to become mentally tougher. The Pats, Indy, Pittsburgh and the Giants are all in a different league in terms of mental toughness, even though the Ravens are comparable in terms of overall talent and ability. They remind me a bit of San Diego in that regard.

Again, great game. Great win.

Great analysis.

I've said this before and I saw it again. People keep blaming Clayton for dropping the ball but McGowan was definitely in his field of vision and was right there for the jarring hit after he dropped the ball.

On the Bodden interception, did you see the Thistle formation set up in the backfield by Baltimore? Kudos to our safety for not biting and drawing down. Flacco must have seen high coverage and tried to thread it in, but his man took off, and Bodden knew high coverage was there.. didn't even bother to look- just timed it. That was one of the rare occasions Flacco threw with his eyes first and Bodden was all over that.

Also noticed when we went from man under on split safety, we also went from robber to bracket coverage to contain Mason, but also because keying on Flacco didn't seem to work and that is more credit to the development of Flacco as QB. Also I think that was a vote of confidence in the speed of our secondaries, or at least the playmaking instinct of Meriweather.

I've said this before but I expect Butler to shoot up the charts and start at some point. That was a huge vote of confidence on BB's part to throw him in at the 2 min drill because Wilhite was having trouble taking away the underneath for Mason. For that kid to come in cold like that and just make a game-changing play is crazy.

 

[bradydaman29]

Yes, that's what I thought when I saw the replay. Oher should have knocked the ball down. As far as I could see, Flacco's arm was hit but the ball wasn't tipped, which might make a difference (I think it's ok for an OL to catch a deflected ball, though I'm not sure).

Oher did the smart thing. He had to catch the ball in case it was ruled a fumble. You can't take anything for granted. How silly would he have looked if he batted the ball down and then a pat recovered it and they called it a fumble - on further review.

 

[ALP]

since u keyed in on butler....what did u think of springs?

he seemed a little slow to me in that game

 

[mayoclinic]

Oher did the smart thing. He had to catch the ball in case it was ruled a fumble. You can't take anything for granted. How silly would he have looked if he batted the ball down and then a pat recovered it and they called it a fumble - on further review.

Very good point. I stand corrected.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Oher did the smart thing. He had to catch the ball in case it was ruled a fumble. You can't take anything for granted. How silly would he have looked if he batted the ball down and then a pat recovered it and they called it a fumble - on further review.

Oher did do the smart thing. It was a sweet delayed blitz taking advantage of Guyton's speed to bring him around the edge unblocked. Guyton has picked up where he left off last year as a blitzer/pass rusher for a very effective first quarter.

Good job Mayo!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

since u keyed in on butler....what did u think of springs?

he seemed a little slow to me in that game

He does appear the slowest of the CBs, then again he's the most experienced and hardest to fool. The CBs this season have been better able to defend the outside, having Springs and Bodden to teach young Wilhite, Wheatley, and Butler has been healthy.

As strong as the CB play has been, McGowan's speed and Meriweather's development have been just as effective from the Safety ranks - Sanders is demonstrating some terrific team leadership accepting reduced playing time gracefully while McGowan's speed is being used to limit the TEs and provide a quicker response in run support. NE's Dime package has been awsome with the three Safeties and one of the young CBs mixed in with Bodden and Springs. I'm looking forward to Chung's development with the speed he'll bring to complement Meriweather.

NE's speed in the secondary has led to an increase in tipped balls, sooner or later some of them will start falling into NE hands. Combine that with the DL and Guyton getting more hands on the ball...

 

[shmessy]

He does appear the slowest of the CBs, then again he's the most experienced and hardest to fool. The CBs this season have been better able to defend the outside, having Springs and Bodden to teach young Wilhite, Wheatley, and Butler has been healthy.

As strong as the CB play has been, McGowan's speed and Meriweather's development have been just as effective from the Safety ranks - Sanders is demonstrating some terrific team leadership accepting reduced playing time gracefully while McGowan's speed is being used to limit the TEs and provide a quicker response in run support. NE's Dime package has been awsome with the three Safeties and one of the young CBs mixed in with Bodden and Springs. I'm looking forward to Chung's development with the speed he'll bring to complement Meriweather.

NE's speed in the secondary has led to an increase in tipped balls, sooner or later some of them will start falling into NE hands. Combine that with the DL and Guyton getting more hands on the ball...

........not to mention a certain 2008 NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year joining the team in a few weeks........

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

since u keyed in on butler....what did u think of springs?

he seemed a little slow to me in that game

Well, there was at least one key play where his physical play at the LOS rerouted a receiver and resulted in an incomplete pass.

 

[mayoclinic]

He does appear the slowest of the CBs, then again he's the most experienced and hardest to fool. The CBs this season have been better able to defend the outside, having Springs and Bodden to teach young Wilhite, Wheatley, and Butler has been healthy.

As strong as the CB play has been, McGowan's speed and Meriweather's development have been just as effective from the Safety ranks - Sanders is demonstrating some terrific team leadership accepting reduced playing time gracefully while McGowan's speed is being used to limit the TEs and provide a quicker response in run support. NE's Dime package has been awsome with the three Safeties and one of the young CBs mixed in with Bodden and Springs. I'm looking forward to Chung's development with the speed he'll bring to complement Meriweather.

NE's speed in the secondary has led to an increase in tipped balls, sooner or later some of them will start falling into NE hands. Combine that with the DL and Guyton getting more hands on the ball...

The defensive speed flying around the ball is fabulous to see. I loved hearing the announcers during the Baltimore game refer to our young speedy defense when Meriweather ran across the field to prevent a Flacco completion to Derrick Mason. And imagine what happens when Mayo comes back.

Jczxohn1 compared the defense to the "flying mutant ninja turtles", which I think would be a fine name. Introducing:

- Jerod Mayo (with Gary Guyton as his understudy), as Leonardo, leader of the defense.
- Darius Butler as Donatello.
- Brandon Meriweather as Raphael, the "bad boy" and most aggressive member of the defense.
- Leigh Bodden as Michaelangelo.

I guess that would make Rodney Harrison Master Splinter, the sensei and adoptive father of the ninja turtle defense.
-

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The defensive speed flying around the ball is fabulous to see. I loved hearing the announcers during the Baltimore game refer to our young speedy defense when Meriweather ran across the field to prevent a Flacco completion to Derrick Mason. And imagine what happens when Mayo comes back.

Jczxohn1 compared the defense to the "flying mutant ninja turtles", which I think would be a fine name. Introducing:

- Jerod Mayo (with Gary Guyton as his understudy), as Leonardo, leader of the defense.
- Darius Butler as Donatello.
- Brandon Meriweather as Raphael, the "bad boy" and most aggressive member of the defense.
- Leigh Bodden as Michaelangelo.

I guess that would make Rodney Harrison Master Splinter, the sensei and adoptive father of the ninja turtle defense.
-

Your late night viewing habits are clearly demonstrating how stressful the job is...

 

[JoeShmoe]

I saw it again too Mayo and echo everything you say

Would comment that

1. Totally agree on Flacco and Rice. Flacco esp. looks the real deal to me. I'm expecting the Ravens to go a long way this year with that offense and to have won that game shows what a good team the Pats are even though we are undercooked.

2. I thought Guyton and Wright stood out too. Given Guyton is playing the Mike with Mayo out I thiink he's relishing it and seems to be getting better each week. We could have some great positional tandems come the end of the year (Bodden/Butler, Merriweather/McGowan, Guyton/Mayo) all with backup. Wright is just playing lights out right now and really taking his chance with Seymour gone

3. Cant agree on LoMo. Thought he was poor running but he is a threat out of the backfield

4. The Pats have a lot of weapons and used them all well when a top D like the Ravens shuts down Moss, Welker, Watson etc

5. Brady is definitely losing the rust each week. His presence in the pocket against a blitzing D was so much more composed than even two weeks ago

6. Why oh why dont we run more slants and hitches? Moss is great at them and it was a much better call on that 3rd down in the 4th

7. I could kick better than Hanson. Seriously

 

[shmessy]

Well, there was at least one key play where his physical play at the LOS rerouted a receiver and resulted in an incomplete pass.

Yes, that was a good play. That was on a goal line fade. He disrupted the flow at the LOS and stayed with Clayton nicely.