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Brady's first two weeks vs. Manning's first two weeks (2008)


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Not to pour cold water on your parade. Wake up folks, winnning a MVP is not as easy as you think.

I will be very happy if Brady end the season in top 5 of Qbs. I respect Brady over any other player in the league. But his is not near top of his game. I will be happy if he regains 90% of his game.

What is.... "90% is your game?" :confused3: Are you the same fan who said Brady has to wake up and start outpacing Indy in "our division"?
 
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Also, if you equate Brady's week one performance to "pooping all over the field", then I imagine you quite value on-the-field pooping.

Ahaha. Nice retort.

I think the data is very interesting. I could care less if Brady wins an MVP, and I don't get why the discussion keeps slipping that way. The point is, we're seeing a "normal" process for even an ELITE quarterback. Let's not forget who the guy behind the knee-brace is.

I won't be a bit surprised to see Tom come back faster than Manning did, but I'll certainly understand if he doesn't.

Thanks for the OP. Good shtuff.
 
This was a good post by the OP. It's really weird how everyone assumed the post was saying Brady was going to be MVP when there was nothing close to a claim like that.

But the comparison is apt, and indeed encouraging for those of us who expected too much too soon. Brady missed more time than Manning too. Good to see that there's hope, and I myself have been making this mental comparison through the first two games but am glad to see the actual numbers also.

-Rob-
 
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but there is a difference in that TFB had a pre-season.

Manning didn't.

But Tom's injury was far worse.
 
This was a good post by the OP. It's really weird how everyone assumed the post was saying Brady was going to be MVP when there was nothing close to a claim like that.

But the comparison is apt, and indeed encouraging for those of us who expected too much too soon. Brady missed more time than Manning too. Good to see that there's hope, and I myself have been making this mental comparison through the first two games but am glad to see the actual numbers also.

-Rob-

I see these two situations as unique; to imply Brady will mirror Manning's output is presumptious and too optimistic.

I am rooting for Brady. I don't like to take it for granted he or the team will return to dominance as soon as they "work out the kinks". I don't get this blind-faith optimism though.

If the team does well, great! Maybe we should wait and actually see them start dominating teams again.
 
I know the majority of us are sane and realize Brady is just dealing with some rust, but for those who need to be further convinced.

In 2008 Brady was injured in the first game of the season requiring major knee surgery and missing the rest of the season. In 2008, Manning had surgery to remove an infected bursa sac in his left knee and ended up sitting out of all four pre-season games while also missing most of training camp.

Here's how they both fared after two weeks of play.

2008: Manning
1-1 Record

56/91 (61.5%)
568 Yards (6.2 Average)
2 TDs / 2 INTs

2009: Brady
1-1 Record

62/100 (62.0%)
594 Yards (5.9 Average)
2 TDs / 2 INTs

The Colts ended up going 3-4 through 8 weeks, coming off a two game losing streak and were looking to be in some trouble. Then, in the first week of November Manning puts up a 121.9 QB rating, defeats the Pats and proceeds to run the table for the rest of the regular season while winning NFL MVP. After throwing 9 interceptions in the first 7 games Manning threw only 4 during the final 9 games.

Patience.

Great OP.

There are some other similarities beyond the simple stats, if you look at the Colts' 2008 early games:

Game 1: Bears 29, Colts 13. The Bears led a close game 15-13 late in the 3rd quarter when Lance Briggs returned a fumble for a TD. Midway through the 4th quarter the Colts went for it on 4th and 1 from their own 47, and Dominic Rhodes was dropped for a 2 yard loss, allowing the Bears to take advantage of a short field and score another TD. Manning finished 30/49 for 257 yards and 1 TD but looked uncharacteristically discombobulated at times, and squandered multiple timeouts because of offensive confusion, leaving them short of timeouts at the end of the game.

Game 2: Colts 18, Vikings 15. Down 15-0 late in the 4th Quarter, Manning pulled off a miracle rally, with the Colts scoring 18 unanswered points, finally taking the lead on a 47 yard Adam Vinatieri field goal with 8 seconds left. Pats fans salivating over the Colts starting 0-2 moan. Manning was 26/42 with 1 TD and 2 INTs. Sounds a lot like the Buffalo game, with TB and the Pats out of sync and down 11, and then suddenly getting their act in gear and scoring 12 unanswered points in 5 and a half minutes.

Game 3: Jaguars 23, Colts 21. Jacksonville kicks a FG with 8 seconds left to win it, after 3 4th quarter lead changes (the Colts led 14-13 after 3 quarters). Damn, the Colts should be 0-3. Manning is 15/29 for 216 yards with 1 TD and 2 INTs (including a 61 yard TD return of an INT by Rashean Mathis), continuing his uncharacteristic play.

Game 4: Colts 31, Texans 27. The Sage Rosenfels game. Coming off a bye week, and with Matt Schaub out for Houston, the Colts are down 27-10 in the 4th quarter to Sage Rosenfels and the Texans but score 21 unanswered points in just over 2 minutes, coming on 2 Peyton TD passes and a 68 yard Gary Brackett fumble return. Manning is 25/34 for 247 yards with 2 TD and 1 INT. Rosenfels loses 2 fumbles and throws an INT in a 4th quarter meltdown. Again, sounds a bit familiar? The Colts should arguably be 0-4 at this point.

Game 5: Colts 31, Ravens 3. Peyton destroys a very good Baltimore defense. Manning has 3 TDs and 0 INTs. Looks like the Colts have finally turned the corner.

Game 6: GB 34, Colts 14. Oops, maybe not. Manning is 21/42 with 0 TDs and 2 INTs, including a 62 yard Nick Collins INT return for a TD and an Aaron Rouse INT return 99 yards for a TD. Colts could be 1-5 now, but are a mediocre 3-3.

Game 7: Titans 31, Colts 21. The changing of the guard game. Undefeated Tennesee dominates the 3-3 Colts. The game wasn't that close, but a lote Colts TD made the final score respectable. Manning is 26/41 with 2 TDs and 2 INTs. Colts should arguably be 1-6 at this point.

Through 7 games Manning had thrown for 10 TDs and 9 INTs.

Game 8: Colts 18, Pats 15. Remember this one? Colts win it on an Adam Vinatieri 4th quarter FG. Pats are driving when Dave Thomas's personnal foul takes us out of FG range, and Matt Cassel throws an INT to Bob Sanders on 4th and 15. Manning is 21/29 with 2 TDs and 0 INTs. A winnable game for the Pats, who fall to 5-3. Indy claws to 4-4 when they could have been 1-7.

And the Colts run the table the rest of the way, finishing 11-4, with Manning winning the MVP.

Looking at some of the similarities:

1. Good teams find a way to scrape out games when they are playing poorly. The Colts were inconsistent and often atrocious at the beginning of last season. They could easily have been 1-7, their only good game coming against a strong Baltimore team that played in the AFCCG. They were blown out by a GB team that ended up picking #9 in the draft, and lost to a Jacksonville team that ended up picking #8. They won 2 games when they were down more than 14 points in the 4th quarter and had no business winning, aided by other team's mistakes.

2. Manning was inconsistent, making atypical mistakes. He had 10 TDs and 9 INTs through 7 games and had thrown 3 INTs for TD returns. The Chicago game showed uncharacteristic mistakes with clock management, similar to the 2 TB delay of game errors against the Jets last week. He was hot and cold, was frequently rattled and didn't look like himself, punctuated with intermittent bursts of brilliance.

Yes, Manning dind't have a preseason. But his injury was much worse than TBs. And Brady is adjusting to some new players on offense too, such as TE Chris Baker and WR Joey Galloway. His trusted slot guy, Wes Welker, as out for one game.

Obviously there's no guarantee that the same script will play out, and the teams are different. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see TB struggle for a few games, showing flashes of his old brilliance combined with uncharacteristic inconsistency and mistakes, before finally putting it all together around the bye week. I could see him having a great game Sunday against a mediocre Falcon's secondary, and then throwing a stinker against the Ravens' pressure, for example. Not necesassarily going to happen, but possible.

Those who "just want consistency" from TB may have unrealistic expectations this early in the season. I just want to Pats to survive to the bye week, gradually get their timing together on offense, get Mayo back healthy, avoid other key injuries, and make it to the bye no worse than 4-3, and hopefully better.
 
Oops, I meant to say TBs injury was much worse than Mannings. My bad.
 
I know the majority of us are sane and realize Brady is just dealing with some rust, but for those who need to be further convinced.

In 2008 Brady was injured in the first game of the season requiring major knee surgery and missing the rest of the season. In 2008, Manning had surgery to remove an infected bursa sac in his left knee and ended up sitting out of all four pre-season games while also missing most of training camp.


Patience.

Another similarity was that one (actually two of their first few victories) were fueled by amazing comebacks/bonehead moves by the other teams. They came back from being down 15-0 vs Minnesota in the 4th quarter to win because the Vikes couldn't convert 3rd downs and Drew Rosenfels threw a pick 6 and a 'fumble 6' in the space of about two minutes...
 
Another similarity was that one (actually two of their first few victories) were fueled by amazing .... the space of about two minutes...

Brady and Manning seem to be different Qbs. Brady is more of a traditional pocket passer. Manning is an accurate pocket passer but has become quite lethal throwing on the run and is pretty good at avioding pressure and buying extra time. Not some thing I would want Brady to mimic at this moment given his knee. People often associate Brady with Montana but as of right now Manning's game bears more similarity to Montana's.

Veering off the topic a bit, but given how much the league protects the QBs, QBs could more afford to buy extra time now. In the old days LBs would kill scramblers like Big Ben and Eli.
 
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L.A.M.E.
Manning had a very weak offense line with 3 new starters, and a new receiver to break in Gonzo.
As much as I want Brady to succeed. Don't assume anything, like Brady will have a special year after pretty much pooping in first two games.
What Manning did in 2008 that is very rare.
I won't count Brady going on to be the MVP this year. Just want him to play steady.

Yes, Edelman is a seasoned pro. So there are no comparisions.

You do realize that Gonzalez was drafted in 2007 and last year was his second season? In fact, he had about 87 yards and 1 TD less in 2007 than he had last year. I do agree that it is harder for a former first round pick in his second year to get acclimated to the NFL than a rookie seventh round pick who was a college QB being converted to WR.
 
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BTW, I expect Brady to rebound and play like he used to or close to it, but I am not predicting an MVP. Manning got the MVP because it was a weak field last year. Right now if Brees keeps close to what he is doing now, he should lock up the award pretty easily.

I don't care if Brady gets the MVP. I just want him to win games.
 
Yes, Edelman is a seasoned pro. So there are no comparisions.

You do realize that Gonzalez was drafted in 2007 and last year was his second season? In fact, he had about 87 yards and 1 TD less in 2007 than he had last year. I do agree that it is harder for a former first round pick in his second year to get acclimated to the NFL than a rookie seventh round pick who was a college QB being converted to WR.

You are right about that. You are missing the bigger point... I am not suggesting Brady has an easier job than Manning. Manning had a very rare season given the circumstances. How many guys come back from that kind of injury and become league MVP? We should not expect the same to happen. There is an overflow of optimism. People need to wait and see. Maybe they will run the table on the second half, maybe they won't. Just because Colts did it last year does not mean we will. Peace.
 
You are right about that. You are missing the bigger point... I am not suggesting Brady has an easier job than Manning. Manning had a very rare season given the circumstances. How many guys come back from that kind of injury and become league MVP? We should not expect the same to happen. There is an overflow of optimism. People need to wait and see. Maybe they will run the table on the second half, maybe they won't. Just because Colts did it last year does not mean we will. Peace.

I don't expect an MVP for Brady. I didn't think Manning had an MVP quality year last year either though. It was more because no one else deserved it than Manning earned it last year.

The Colts were 4-3 last year and could have been about 1-6 over that period. The Pats are 1-1. The Pats could be 6-1 after seven games for all we know. We are two weeks into the season. The Colts struggled for most of the first half of the season. Just because the Colts struggled for most of the first half, doesn't mean the Pats will.
 
Week 3 update

2008: Peyton Manning
1-2 Record

71/120 (59.2%)
784 Yards (6.5 Average)
3 TD / 4 INTs

2009: Tom Brady
2-1 Record

87/142 (61.3%)
871 Yards (6.1 Average)
3 TDs / 2 INTs
 
2008: Peyton Manning
2-2 Record

96/154 (62.3%)
1,031 Yards (6.7 Average)
5 TDs / 5 INTs

2009: Tom Brady
3-1 Record

108/174 (62.0%)
1,129 Yards (6.5 Average)
4 TDs / 2 INTs
 
Fifth game update

2008: Peyton Manning
3-2 Record

112/182 (61.5%)
1,302 Yards (7.6 Average)
8 TDs / 5 INTs

2009: Tom Brady
3-2 Record

126/207 (61.4%)
1,344 Yards (6.5 Average)
6 TDs / 2 INTs
 
I don't understand why this silly/foolish/irrelevant comparision continues to be made. Manning had a MINOR surgical procedure which required a second MINOR surgical procedure. He missed all of one pre-season. Woooooooooow!! :rolleyes:
Tom Brady had major reconstuctive surgery on his knee and missed an entire season. Stop with this lameness please.
If you want to compare look at Carson Palmer's return. Or Donovan McNabb.
 
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Nah, that's alright.
 
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