Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defending?

[Synovia]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

If it is a tough call, we don't have one of the top 10 or even top 20 defensive in the league.

Ok, name the 20 defenses better than the Pats.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Same here.

We won 3 SBs and lost 1 SB + 1 AFCCG thanks to the timing of who had the ball at the right time.

The eagles SB was won by the defense at the end....

I also think of the Rams Titans superbowl.....

I think using a few big games here and there is not the way to go on this discussion we would really need to compare all the games that fall into this scenario and just the big ones that stand out.



I will admit that maybe with Tom the offense could be the way to go but with most teams I'll take my chances and I think even still I might prefer the lead.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Take the points and play defense

Jesus, you're all over the place. Do you have more confidence in the offense or the defense? This is an easy one (assuming we're talking about our nemeses: Colts, Steelers or Chargers). How many (out of ten times) will Brady score? I'd say at least 5 times. Is our defense stopping Manning, Roethlisberger or Rivers six times?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Jesus, you're all over the place. Do you have more confidence in the offense or the defense? This is an easy one (assuming we're talking about our nemeses: Colts, Steelers or Chargers). How many (out of ten times) will Brady score? I'd say at least 5 times. Is our defense stopping Manning, Roethlisberger or Rivers six times?

I'm not all over the place at all. I'd rather be in the lead than behind.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I'm not all over the place at all. I'd rather be in the lead than behind.

But that choice belies your legitimate concerns regarding this defense (expressed in other posts). Unless, you distrust more the ball in Brady's hands.

 

[Bartmac36]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Aren't these scenarios pretty much the same? If we are down by 4, then Brady will lead to get the TD, which will then force the D to defend the long drive...and the other way around, if the D gives up a score on the long drive, then the Offense needs to go the distance to get the winning score...either way the pressure falls on both of them, and you can't really have one without the other...

 

[PlainOldEd]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

This is no contest. Offense hands down. But I think 90% of the teams in the NFL would say the same. Defenses are simply tired out at the end of the game and there is very little pass rush. You see it time and again. Most NFL teams move easily down the field in the last minutes of a game and it usually comes down to red zone D....Again, I'll take our offense over our defense in this situation.

I would guess that 90% of the teams in the NFL would take the lead. What you're saying is if you have a 3 point lead with 2:15 left in the game the smart thing to do would be let the other team score so you're down 4 with 2 minutes left, rather than take the chance of the other team using all the time and scoring a last second TD to win. That's insane.

 

[HarkDawg]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

TFB and the ball. Our D is not dominant like our passing game. TFB is clutch and I would take the ball despite the deficit.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I would guess that 90% of the teams in the NFL would take the lead. What you're saying is if you have a 3 point lead with 2:15 left in the game the smart thing to do would be let the other team score so you're down 4 with 2 minutes left, rather than take the chance of the other team using all the time and scoring a last second TD to win. That's insane.

You misunderstood the question. With two minutes to go (and both teams having all 3 timeouts), would you rather the Pats be:

- up by 2 with the other team (Colts, Steelers or Chargers) needing to go 45 yards to attempt a field goal for the win, or

- be down by 4 with Brady having to go 80 yards for the touchdown to win?

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

You misunderstood the question. With two minutes to go (and both teams having all 3 timeouts), would you rather the Pats be:

- up by 2 with the other team (Colts, Steelers or Chargers) needing to go 45 yards to attempt a field goal for the win, or

- be down by 4 with Brady having to go 80 yards for the touchdown to win?

he understood it perfect and I think his logic really ends the debate.

he changed the scenario just a touch to prove his point as you have a 3 point lead instead of 2 (which wasnt needed down 4 or 5 is no different at that point in a game) but his logic of starting with the lead and giving the scenario that if you would rather be down with 2 minutes and TFB than you should let them score so TFB still has time to come back is flawless because no one in their right mind would ever do this.

here are the two scenarios

Two minutes left in the 4th quarter.....
1. Pats down by 4, 80 yds to go, obviously needing a TD

2. Pats up by 2, 80 yds to go for other team

if you think scenario 1 is the way to go than if you were in scenario 2 than you should just let the other team score.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

But that choice belies your legitimate concerns regarding this defense (expressed in other posts). Unless, you distrust more the ball in Brady's hands.

No it doesn't. I'd rather be in the lead than behind. That's not about trust or distrust.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

No it doesn't. I'd rather be in the lead than behind. That's not about trust or distrust.

Just to be clear, does your answer speak to our present offense and defense or is your answer more philosophical?

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I'd need to know more to answer properly, i.e. how many time outs does each team have left, has the 2 minute warning already happened (i.e. are you talking exactly 2 minutes left) do we have any injuries, do they have any injuries, who are we playing, has either D been on the field a lot in the 4th quarter, does the other team have a good long ranger kicker or not, etc.

But based on just knowing what you've told me and assuming the worst I'd rather have the lead and make them score.

 

[PlainOldEd]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

he understood it perfect and I think his logic really ends the debate.

he changed the scenario just a touch to prove his point as you have a 3 point lead instead of 2 (which wasnt needed down 4 or 5 is no different at that point in a game) but his logic of starting with the lead and giving the scenario that if you would rather be down with 2 minutes and TFB than you should let them score so TFB still has time to come back is flawless because no one in their right mind would ever do this.

here are the two scenarios



if you think scenario 1 is the way to go than if you were in scenario 2 than you should just let the other team score.

Thanks, I didn't want to have to type all of that.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

The eagles SB was won by the defense at the end....

I also think of the Rams Titans superbowl.....

I think using a few big games here and there is not the way to go on this discussion we would really need to compare all the games that fall into this scenario and just the big ones that stand out.



I will admit that maybe with Tom the offense could be the way to go but with most teams I'll take my chances and I think even still I might prefer the lead.

Personally, I'm just looking at the Pats for this discussion -

So, let's take a brief look at the track record of the offense and defense of the Pats this decade in these clutch situations.

Just to narrow it down, let's hold it just the playoffs:

The offense had clutch (we'll define as late 4th quarter drives to take the lead) in the following games:

01: AFCDG, SB
03: SB [twice]
06: AFCDG, AFCCG
07: SB

That's 6 games, and 7 clutch drives.

The defense had ANTI-clutch drives (relinquishing the lead) in the following games:
01: SB
03: SB
04: SB
06: AFCCG
07: SB

That's 5 anti-clutch drives by the defense.

Admittedly, the defense has had clutch stops, Eagles Super Bowl, Titans AFCDG come to mind.

Essentially, anytime the offense has gotten the ball with more than 50 seconds, tied or down by 4 or less in the Brady era, they've scored a go-ahead TD. Meanwhile, the defense has struggled mightily in the 4th quarter in these key games, even back when the defense was considered amongst the best.

 

[SyN65]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Considering the state our defense...I'd rather have the offense on the field. It also helps that we have one of the most clutch QB's of all time playing, too...

 

[Synovia]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Considering the state our defense...I'd rather have the offense on the field. It also helps that we have one of the most clutch QB's of all time playing, too...

So, with 4 minutes left, and a 2 or 3 point lead, you'd let the other team score on the first play, to move to that situation?

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

So, with 4 minutes left, and a 2 or 3 point lead, you'd let the other team score on the first play, to move to that situation?

I think you're taking it too literally. In the logical, practical sense, its hard to argue with wanting to have more points on the scoreboard. But in this hypothetical fantasy land we call the internet, I'm going to reiterate that it seems the offense has had more success getting leads than the defense has had keeping leads.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I think you're taking it too literally. In the logical, practical sense, its hard to argue with wanting to have more points on the scoreboard. But in this hypothetical fantasy land we call the internet, I'm going to reiterate that it seems the offense has had more success getting leads than the defense has had keeping leads.

If thats actually the case though, it would be smarter to let the other team score immediately, and count on your offense to score instead of your defense to stop a score.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

he understood it perfect and I think his logic really ends the debate.

he changed the scenario just a touch to prove his point as you have a 3 point lead instead of 2 (which wasnt needed down 4 or 5 is no different at that point in a game) but his logic of starting with the lead and giving the scenario that if you would rather be down with 2 minutes and TFB than you should let them score so TFB still has time to come back is flawless because no one in their right mind would ever do this.

here are the two scenarios



if you think scenario 1 is the way to go than if you were in scenario 2 than you should just let the other team score.

If the logic espoused here is so flawless answer me this. Right now which scenario would you feel more confident in:

- Colts ball @ the 20, Score Pats 14, Colts/Steelers/Chargers 12, 2 mins left (Both teams with 3 timeouts), or
- Pats ball @ the 20, Score Colts/Steelers/Chargers 17, Pats 13, 2 mins left (Both teams with 3 timeouts)?

It's not as easy a slamdunk as you suggest.