More valuable? (Seymour vs. Draft Pick)

[Disco Volante]

Of course it's been talked to death, but wanted a consensus with a poll.

I labeled the second choice as single year because I do not think there is any way we would be re-singing him after this season. (You can discuss that as well)

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Nice, another Seymour thread. Any way you look at it, their defense isn't that great with or without Seymour. I think they have potential but they're far from being complete. Because Seymour is almost 30, I went with the 1st rounder. However, I believe that compensation will come down if Seymour refuses to report.

 

[PatsfanGlo]

If we are strictly speaking about this season, of course I'll have to go with seymour. However, with Seymour and Wilfork contract expiring and Brady's contract needing to be extended, choices had to be made and BB went with younger guy on defense. First round pick by no mean is sure thing but getting something out of guy who will eventually walk to me is good decision.

 

[PaulThePat]

I fully admit to drinking BB Kool Aid by the gallon so I'm obviously going to back the coach on this one. However, when you realise we're talking about a potential top 10 pick which could give us a stud player for 10 years it's a no brainer. Seymour was a beast at times but one season of Sey against 10 years of another Mayo...sorry but as fans we need to look at the big picture and BB knows that more than most. It may not be popular today but in time I think people will see it for the smart move that it is.

Go Pats !!

 

[Rob0729]

Not that I endorse another Seymour thread, but I will throw my two cents. Even if Seymour was the Defensive Player of the Year, his value would only be this year. A 2011 pick can have an impact for this team for a decade especially if it is a high pick.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Of course it's been talked to death, but wanted a consensus with a poll.

I labeled the second choice as single year because I do not think there is any way we would be re-singing him after this season. (You can discuss that as well)

It should be 1 year of Seymour + 2011 3rd-round compensation pick

 

[amazinPats]

Easy to make a selection here. The draft pick is huge.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

yada yada and i agree on the "another Seymour thread" comments, but I went for the Pick option, but also admit that there is definitely a negative trade off this season in not having one of the Pats' Defensive greats on the team.

 

[Double G]

I'll take big Sey for a year vs a first round draft pick in 2011 when a.) Brady will be 34 b.) Moss will be 35 c.) The way the NFL has worked lately (the 1-15 Doofins are 11-5 and division Champs a year later, the Cardinals get to the Super Bowl, the pitiful 2007 Ravens get to the 2008 AFCCG, etc, etc), the 2010 Raiders could go 12-4, who knows, that is a year from now and d.) If the Raiders continue to suck and that pick is say a #4 pick, we'll get "and with the #4 pick in the 2011 NFL draft the New England Patriots trade that pick to the St Louis Rams for their second, third and fourth round pick" so we can screw up those draft picks seven ways to Sunday.

This trade has made a defense with questions going into the season weaker.

Time will tell I guess; drink the Kool Aid and spin it anyway you want, there is noone on the
depth chart for D linemen currently who is a better player than Seymour, so whoever takes his place is a downgrade.

 

[spacecrime]

my choices year by year:

2009 - better off with Seymour than futue draft pick

2010 - doesn't matter much. Seymour will be gone and the draft pick not yet arrived. Near tie, but vote goes to the draft pick as Brace will have a year of starting under his belt. Plus, vote of draft pick validated when Seymour is signed by Rex Ryan.

2011 - first round draft pick better than the 3rd round comp pick we would have gotten when Seymour was signed by the Jets

2012 - first round draft pick better than the 3rd round comp pick we would have gotten when Seymour was signed by the Jets

2013 - first round draft pick better than the 3rd round comp pick we would have gotten when Seymour was signed by the Jets

2014 - first round draft pick better than the 3rd round comp pick we would have gotten when Seymour was signed by the Jets

2015 - first round draft pick better than the 3rd round comp pick we would have gotten when Seymour was signed by the Jets. Plus the third round pick could only be signed for four years and likely is gone now.

2016 - draft pick, assuming it was a top 15 pick and thus still under contract

 

[lobster]

At some point the Pat's can only spend so much time "building for the future" and have to make and win the Super Bowl, and that could have been this year if the Pat's kept Seymour. He remains a top DE whose mobility looks excellent for his age and right now that's what the Pat's need.

 

[mcmurtry86]

Why do people continue to insist the Pats would definitely get a 3rd round comp pick had they kept Seymour and he left via FA?

Teams only get comp picks if they sign less qualifying players than they lost. That's hardly a given

 

[Timbo717]

Due to Sey's contract situation and age I would lean towards the draft pick long term, not knowing of course if that is a top-1st round pick or if it falls into the later portion of the round.

This year you take a gamble, but the odds of whether it is a successful one won't be known until you see the defensive play without him. If it ends up being a 1st-rounder as planned, then I think long-term it is definately more valuable. If we're not going to sign Sey as we probably shouldn't, then getting a possible impact player in a couple years will be nice when the Pats are still trying to solidify a new talent pool and build towards the future.

 

[goldenaleus]

I am for the draft pick since even with Seymour's "high" value this season is by far outweighed of the 20011 pick which will be a much better value for the team as a whole.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Why do people continue to insist the Pats would definitely get a 3rd round comp pick had they kept Seymour and he left via FA?

Teams only get comp picks if they sign less qualifying players than they lost. That's hardly a given

Exactly. you have to make the judgement on what is known, and for the overall health and prosperity for the future of the team.......... It's not even a question.

As for this year? even that is not a complete known yet, too many variables we don't know. Sey is a huge talent, so the underlying "we are better off with him" is a given. The real question's are how BB is going utilize this new 4-3. Green is lighter, faster and more aggressive and projects as a damn good 4-3 DE. Plus with Burgess and Wright outside and Pryor Brace in there too, It seems we have a very good set up for an effective 4-3. Yes, we'd be better with Sey in there too, but HOW MUCH is the question. You have to shape the line for what you plan on doing with it.

The real point is because we are switching from a 3-4 to 4-3 base, losing Seymour (or even Wilfork or Warren) in isolation is minimized as compared to if we were staying with our typical alignment. It remains to be seen what his loss will mean this year, but IMO, I think that it will be less than we are all thinking, because of the switch to the newer alignment. Just my thoughts.

The fact that BB considered either Wilfork or Seymour pretty much confirms that 1) he did not think he could resign both, and 2) One of them is somewhat expendable (sorta) due to the fact that he is obviously bringing speed up to the edges and the big three that were so effective in the 3-4 alignment, does not project out the same way as 4-3 (at least in the way BB want's to use it). I think Green will be MUCH better in this set-up the coming off the bench to spell Sey. Look for a very good year out of him.

 

[The_Riddler]

No Brainer here, drop in Brace or Jarvis and we don't miss a beat. This defense will not be predicated on Big Sey being there or not, it will be predicated on this suspect secondary and their ability to make plays and come together in what will hopefully be a short amount of time.

Again, Sey's enormous CAP hits over the past 3 years never matched his production. This will allow Brace to get more reps, develop much quicker and it will free up more reps for the real pass rusher at his natural down DE spot, Burgess. Great move as usual...................Thanks Al.

 

[Kontradiction]

For this season, Seymour is more valuable than a draft pick. However, he would have been gone after this season (most likely) and we wouldn't have received anything for him in return. It's a catch-22, really. Is our defense better with Seymour in it? As of right now, I will say yes because we only have a vague idea of what we have with Myron Pryor. So, for 2009, Richard Seymour is more valuable to this defense. Past 2009, with Richard being 30 and his contract being up, the pick is more valuable.

 

[Kontradiction]

No Brainer here, drop in Brace or Jarvis and we don't miss a beat. This defense will not be predicated on Big Sey being there or not, it will be predicated on this suspect secondary and their ability to make plays and come together in what will hopefully be a short amount of time.

Again, Sey's enormous CAP hits over the past 3 years never matched his production. This will allow Brace to get more reps, develop much quicker and it will free up more reps for the real pass rusher at his natural down DE spot, Burgess. Great move as usual...................Thanks Al.

Seymour had 8 sacks last year to go along with 52 tackles (which is amazing considering that the opposition tried to steer the run game away from him). I highly doubt that we "don't miss a beat" with Brace, Green, or Pryor.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

For this season, Seymour is more valuable than a draft pick. However, he would have been gone after this season (most likely) and we wouldn't have received anything for him in return. It's a catch-22, really. Is our defense better with Seymour in it? As of right now, I will say yes because we only have a vague idea of what we have with Myron Pryor. So, for 2009, Richard Seymour is more valuable to this defense. Past 2009, with Richard being 30 and his contract being up, the pick is more valuable.

We may not have any idea what we have in Pryor (or Brace for that matter), but I'm fairly sure the guy that pulled the trigger on this deal does.

Seymour had 8 sacks last year to go along with 52 tackles (which is amazing considering that the opposition tried to steer the run game away from him). I highly doubt that we "don't miss a beat" with Brace, Green, or Pryor.

Depends on the defense we run........ I'll agree with the "don't miss a beat", as I think we will miss a couple. I just don't think the we'll miss so many that we'll "miss out on a Super Bowl". That's silly. NO ONE PLAYER (Not named Tom Brady) is that crucial to our success or failure.

 

[Kontradiction]

We may not have any idea what we have in Pryor (or Brace for that matter), but I'm fairly sure the guy that pulled the trigger on this deal does.

That is one thing I have said time and time again that has put my mind at ease about this deal. Belichick isn't the type of person to do something like this without a solid back-up plan in mind. It's no coincidence that he waited until AFTER the preseason to do this when he could have done it before hand. My guess is that he liked what he saw in someone. My guess is also that it is not Jarvis Green since BB knows what he has in Jarvis. It's either Pryor or Brace (or both). If I had to choose between the two, I would go with Pryor since he's been impressive in the preseason. This is assuming that we still run the 3-4 as our base. If it's the 4-3 (which I think it will be), then both are not bad.

Depends on the defense we run........ I'll agree with the "don't miss a beat", as I think we will miss a couple. I just don't think the we'll miss so many that we'll "miss out on a Super Bowl". That's silly. NO ONE PLAYER (Not named Tom Brady) is that crucial to our success or failure.

I don't think it will cost us the Super Bowl either. But we will miss him... a lot... at some point in the season.