Bolder FO?

[mayoclinic]

Is it just me, or does it seem that the Pat's Front Office has gotten even bolder in making aggressive moves since Scott Pioli left for KC? Sure, we made plenty of bold moves in the past. But consider what's happened since Pioli left:

1. Franchising Cassel immediately at the start of FA.
2. Trading Vrabel and Cassel to KC for #34.
3. Boldly moving around in the draft, taking 4 #2's and 2 #3's as well as accumulating 2 extra #2's for 2010.
4. Trading Ellis Hobbs to KC.
5. Aggressively addressing the secondary in FA and the draft, adding Bodden, Springs, Butler, Chung and McGowan.
6. Trading for Derrick Burgess.
7. Cutting a 2nd year 3rd round QB pick in Kevin O'Connell in favor of a rookie UDFA as backup QB.
8. Trading our best defensive player over the 8 years the Belichick era, Richard Seymour, to Oakland.
9. Trading or retiring the core of our SB defense: Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison.

Pretty aggressive stuff. Nothing namby-pamby about those moves. If nothing else, the FO has been very decisive and doesn't lack confidence.

 

[DaBruinz]

Two things.

1) In BBs eyes, Bruschi was the Best Defensive player of the last 8 years, if one was to believe what BB said during Bruschi's retirement press conference.

2) Hobbs was traded to Philly not KC.

Also, I don't see the signings of Bodden, Springs and McGowan being any more aggressive as the Pats trading for Welker and then Trading for Moss. They were just opportunities that presented themselves..

Also, I am a bit confused at how you think that BB had any say in Bruschi and Harrison retiring.. Especially since BB was the one who asked Bruschi about whether or not he'd consider returning later in the season if the Patriots were in dire need..

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Is it just me, or does it seem that the Pat's Front Office has gotten even bolder in making aggressive moves since Scott Pioli left for KC? Sure, we made plenty of bold moves in the past. But consider what's happened since Pioli left:

1. Franchising Cassel immediately at the start of FA.
2. Trading Vrabel and Cassel to KC for #34.
3. Boldly moving around in the draft, taking 4 #2's and 2 #3's as well as accumulating 2 extra #2's for 2010.
4. Trading Ellis Hobbs to KC.
5. Aggressively addressing the secondary in FA and the draft, adding Bodden, Springs, Butler, Chung and McGowan.
6. Trading for Derrick Burgess.
7. Cutting a 2nd year 3rd round QB pick in Kevin O'Connell in favor of a rookie UDFA as backup QB.
8. Trading our best defensive player over the 8 years the Belichick era, Richard Seymour, to Oakland.
9. Trading or retiring the core of our SB defense: Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison.

Pretty aggressive stuff. Nothing namby-pamby about those moves. If nothing else, the FO has been very decisive and doesn't lack confidence.

I've seen it suggested that Pioli might have been acting as a moderating influence. Who knows if that's true or not.

I can't say yet if I like this new, more aggressive FO. Time will tell, I guess.

 

[italia44]

Is it just me, or does it seem that the Pat's Front Office has gotten even bolder in making aggressive moves since Scott Pioli left for KC? Sure, we made plenty of bold moves in the past. But consider what's happened since Pioli left:

1. Franchising Cassel immediately at the start of FA.
2. Trading Vrabel and Cassel to KC for #34.
3. Boldly moving around in the draft, taking 4 #2's and 2 #3's as well as accumulating 2 extra #2's for 2010.
4. Trading Ellis Hobbs to KC.
5. Aggressively addressing the secondary in FA and the draft, adding Bodden, Springs, Butler, Chung and McGowan.
6. Trading for Derrick Burgess.
7. Cutting a 2nd year 3rd round QB pick in Kevin O'Connell in favor of a rookie UDFA as backup QB.
8. Trading our best defensive player over the 8 years the Belichick era, Richard Seymour, to Oakland.
9. Trading or retiring the core of our SB defense: Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison.

Pretty aggressive stuff. Nothing namby-pamby about those moves. If nothing else, the FO has been very decisive and doesn't lack confidence.

Also,remember 3 yrs ago,5 minutes after midnite...when URFA's become available,when they jumped on A.Thomas?

It's not only the boldness,it's the speed by which they make decisions.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I've seen it suggested that Pioli might have been acting as a moderating influence. Who knows if that's true or not.

I can't say yet if I like this new, more aggressive FO. Time will tell, I guess.

What I like best of all with Belichick is the self scouting that he does on himself. So many good coaches go stale and get fired before changing. Bill since the day he came here has proven that nothing is etched into him and change is not only good it's a necessity. Through all this he has managed to bring some dignity to some our favorites ... no small feat in changing the team. He takes what he has and builds from it. Except for replacing Romeo IMO, he has gotten better in all facets of running the team.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

how about this for an anomaly..........every 2009 draft pick is with the team going into week 1 (richard was waived but is now on the PS)

and there were alot of draft picks

 

[mayoclinic]

how about this for an anomaly..........every 2009 draft pick is with the team going into week 1 (richard was waived but is now on the PS)

and there were alot of draft picks

13 players overall including FA. Pretty amazing:

2a Chung, S - on the team, should get significant playing time
2b Brace, DT - on the team, should get significant playing time
2c Butler, CB - on the team, should get significant playing time
2d Vollmer, OT - on the team, swing tackle
3a Tate, WR - PUP
3b McKenzie, LB - IR
4 Ohrnberger, OG - on the team
5 Bussey, OG - IR
6a Ingram, LS - on the team, starting LS
6b Pryor, DT - on the team
7a Edelman, WR - on the team
7b Richard, DT - practice squad
UDFA Hoyer, QB - on the team, backup QB for now

Very impressive.

 

[mgteich]

It was not bold to trade Cassel for anything we could get. Anything else would have been crazy. We need the cap money.

Belichick brought in new blood for the offense in Taylor, Baker and Galloway. With a healthy Brady and even a healthy Maroney added, we surely project to have one of the best offenses ever.

We had the #10 defense in the NFL. With a few ADDITIONS on the defense (Bodden and Springs), the team was the Super Bowl favorite.

There are many, many words for the transformation of our defense in one short year. Aggressive might be one such word. I assume you think it is better to be aggressive than prudent.

Yes, I think that it was absolutely awesome to secure Taylor, Baker, Galloway, Lewis, Bodden, Springs and McGowan. And yes, we had amazing draft (other than trading Hobbs for Ohrnberger).

If this was all there was, this offseason would have be awesome. Everyone was expecting a Super Bowl win. And we have three #2's in 2010.

All this was awesome. You might call it aggressive.

=============================================
AND THEN THERE IS THIS PLAN TO COMPLETELY REVAMP THE DEFENSE
Gone are Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, Hobbs and LeKevin Smith. Gone is the 3-4.
Gone are thoughts of the need for backup inside linebackers. Our pass-rush was perceived to be a problem, so we will solve this by getting rid of Seymour and instead relying on Burgess and Banta-Cain. Simple folk might think that the secondary was the problem not the 3-4.

For years, we have been talking about the players not being suited for the 4-3. Belichick fixed that! Belichick is taking an enormous risk. Make no mistake. Once he had brought in the defensive additions, he could have had some tweaks to the defense and improved it from #10, especially with Brady back.

Instead, Belichick is rolling the dice, hoping to develop a defense in a few weeks, hopefully before the playoffs. We may still see some defensive additions. Free agant Carter could easily start for our Super Bowl defense.

And to think a few weeks ago, we were worried whether Burgess and Banta-Cain would provide enough of an improvement in the pass rush.

This season will be fun, perhaps like 2001. My preference would have been less fun, and a season like 2004 where the team methodically moved to the Super Bowl with no real question marks along the way. But perhaps Belichick will win his bet and the Brady Bunch will be so awesome that the defense will often be playing from way ahead and will be good enough to take us the distance. We can only hope and pray.

Is it just me, or does it seem that the Pat's Front Office has gotten even bolder in making aggressive moves since Scott Pioli left for KC? Sure, we made plenty of bold moves in the past. But consider what's happened since Pioli left:

1. Franchising Cassel immediately at the start of FA.
2. Trading Vrabel and Cassel to KC for #34.
3. Boldly moving around in the draft, taking 4 #2's and 2 #3's as well as accumulating 2 extra #2's for 2010.
4. Trading Ellis Hobbs to KC.
5. Aggressively addressing the secondary in FA and the draft, adding Bodden, Springs, Butler, Chung and McGowan.
6. Trading for Derrick Burgess.
7. Cutting a 2nd year 3rd round QB pick in Kevin O'Connell in favor of a rookie UDFA as backup QB.
8. Trading our best defensive player over the 8 years the Belichick era, Richard Seymour, to Oakland.
9. Trading or retiring the core of our SB defense: Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison.

Pretty aggressive stuff. Nothing namby-pamby about those moves. If nothing else, the FO has been very decisive and doesn't lack confidence.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Is it possible Bill was happy (business aspect) to see Pioli go?

Did Pioli see the writing on the wall that they needed to part?

Was the breakup the best thing for both of them?


I think these questions are fair to ponder going forward.

 

[maverick4]

Belichick was also very aggressive and bold before 2003, when he didn't make the playoffs and had extra time to analyze his own team and the players available.

 

[farn]

Wish they were a tad Bolder and had told Crable to get his fragile butt out of town (cue the Crable lovers...).

 

[patchick]

What do you suppose is the all-time record for trades by one team in one off-season? (Player trades, not moving up and down the draft board.)

From memory, so probably incomplete:

- Traded away Cassel & Vrabel
- Traded for Lewis
- Traded for A. Smith
- Traded away Hobbs
- Traded for Burgess
- Traded away L. Smith
- Traded away Hochstein
- Traded away Thomas
- Traded for Matthews
- Traded away Seymour

That's pretty wild in a league where player trades aren't especially common.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I see what you're saying in a way. But really the only move that could significantly backfire for us is trading Seymour. The rest of the moves have been smart, calculated, low risk good reward type moves. Pioli was here for some marquis FA signings like Rosey and ADT. As well as the release of Lawyer Milloy. I would even have the Moss and Welker trades as more bold moves than most of what happened before today's trade.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

It was not bold to trade Cassel for anything we could get. Anything else would have been crazy. We need the cap money.

Belichick brought in new blood for the offense in Taylor, Baker and Galloway. With a healthy Brady and even a healthy Maroney added, we surely project to have one of the best offenses ever.

We had the #10 defense in the NFL. With a few ADDITIONS on the defense (Bodden and Springs), the team was the Super Bowl favorite.

There are many, many words for the transformation of our defense in one short year. Aggressive might be one such word. I assume you think it is better to be aggressive than prudent.

Yes, I think that it was absolutely awesome to secure Taylor, Baker, Galloway, Lewis, Bodden, Springs and McGowan. And yes, we had amazing draft (other than trading Hobbs for Ohrnberger).

If this was all there was, this offseason would have be awesome. Everyone was expecting a Super Bowl win. And we have three #2's in 2010.

All this was awesome. You might call it aggressive.

=============================================
AND THEN THERE IS THIS PLAN TO COMPLETELY REVAMP THE DEFENSE
Gone are Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, Hobbs and LeKevin Smith. Gone is the 3-4.
Gone are thoughts of the need for backup inside linebackers. Our pass-rush was perceived to be a problem, so we will solve this by getting rid of Seymour and instead relying on Burgess and Banta-Cain. Simple folk might think that the secondary was the problem not the 3-4.

For years, we have been talking about the players not being suited for the 4-3. Belichick fixed that! Belichick is taking an enormous risk. Make no mistake. Once he had brought in the defensive additions, he could have had some tweaks to the defense and improved it from #10, especially with Brady back.

Instead, Belichick is rolling the dice, hoping to develop a defense in a few weeks, hopefully before the playoffs. We may still see some defensive additions. Free agant Carter could easily start for our Super Bowl defense.

And to think a few weeks ago, we were worried whether Burgess and Banta-Cain would provide enough of an improvement in the pass rush.

This season will be fun, perhaps like 2001. My preference would have been less fun, and a season like 2004 where the team methodically moved to the Super Bowl with no real question marks along the way. But perhaps Belichick will win his bet and the Brady Bunch will be so awesome that the defense will often be playing from way ahead and will be good enough to take us the distance. We can only hope and pray.

developing a new defense???? now??? he's got the bodies to continue to play the 3-4 effectively..........

just like EVERY year, we can only hope and pray........

 

[Patspsycho]

I see what you're saying in a way. But really the only move that could significantly backfire for us is trading Seymour.

May or may not backfire in the short term, but in the bigger picture it was not going to be realistic to be able to resign both Sey and Wilfork. Not to mention that we have to take care of Brady.

I am stunned that an organization would give up a first round pick for a player who is in the last year of his contract, much less an organization like the hotel.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

May or may not backfire in the short term, but in the bigger picture it was not going to be realistic to be able to resign both Sey and Wilfork. Not to mention that we have to take care of Brady.

I am stunned that an organization would give up a first round pick for a player who is in the last year of his contract, much less an organization like the hotel.

If we come up short this year we are going to be second guessing this trade, justified or not, that's just how it is.

If we win the Super Bowl, this deal is a slam dunk. Guys like Pryor and Brace are getting more reps than they would have. And the Raiders aren't turning it around anytime soon I am confident that 2011 pick will be a top 10. Either way, in the long run it is going to help us I agree. But when you're the favorites to win it all, this is still a very bold move.

 

[mayoclinic]

What do you suppose is the all-time record for trades by one team in one off-season? (Player trades, not moving up and down the draft board.)

From memory, so probably incomplete:

- Traded away Cassel & Vrabel
- Traded for Lewis
- Traded for A. Smith
- Traded away Hobbs
- Traded for Burgess
- Traded away L. Smith
- Traded away Hochstein
- Traded away Thomas
- Traded for Matthews
- Traded away Seymour

That's pretty wild in a league where player trades aren't especially common.

9 months ago I posted an early blueprint for a proposed Pats offseason and draft:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...1-mock-offseason-fa-draft-january-15-a.html

It included a lot of suggestions which were far from clear at the time, such as franchising and trading Matt Cassel (at the time, there were still rumors of Brady not healing from his post-ACL repair infection). It proposed building a younger, more aggressive, attacking defense, and suggested that players such as Harrison, Vrabel and Bruschi were pretty much done and were marginal at best, and on the bubble. It also suggested that if we could someone to overspend and give us a 1st round pick for Richard Seymour in his contract year, that we should seriously consider trading him. A lot of the ideas were meant to stir up discussion and were controversial.

The FO has been criticized for holding on to valued veterans too long. We have been victimized by the same players who won SBs for us in the past few years, as Bruschi, Harrison and Vrabel have slowed and become injury prone. This year, the FO has been more ruthless than I could have imagined in jettisoning players from the past. As recently as a few weeks ago posters form this board raised the possibilty of signing Willie McGinest, Junior Seau, or Roosevelt Colvin as short-term stop-gaps. But the FO has clearly made a sharp separation from the past. Bruschi, Seau, Vrabel, Colvin and Izzo are gone from last year's LB squad. Harrison, Hobbs, and the unlamented Deltha O'Neal are gone from the secondary. And we did find someone willing to give us a (probably high) first round pick for an aging defensive star in his contract year, and traded Seymour. All of this is a sharp break from past habits of holding on to players too long, and has been more decisive and ruthless than I could possibly have imagined. And that doesn't include the offensive changes.

 

[italia44]

I always liked this guy when he was an analyst on TV,so,I wonder what effect Floyd Reese has had on the recent spate of player moves.

i suppose we'll never know because BB has him locked up deep underground at SAC headquarters.....holding the Nuclear Launch Codes.

......No.....I'm Serious.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

My thinking is that BB is trying to accomplish two things with all these moves.

1.) He is trying to upgrade a defense that is NOT championship calibre and has not been for several years now.
2.) He is also exercising control over the locker room. Tow the company line and life is wonderful. Otherwise all beefs and unresolved disagreements will be dealt with.

At the end of the day, this is BB evaluating his team and BB listening to his locker room and making the moves he sees thinks will accomplish goals in the short and long term.

 

[WhoaDirty]

My thinking is that BB is trying to accomplish two things with all these moves.

1.) He is trying to upgrade a defense that is NOT championship calibre and has not been for several years now.
2.) He is also exercising control over the locker room. Tow the company line and life is wonderful. Otherwise all beefs and unresolved disagreements will be dealt with.

At the end of the day, this is BB evaluating his team and BB listening to his locker room and making the moves he sees thinks will accomplish goals in the short and long term.

The defence was championship calibre in 2007. They held the Giants to 17 points and were one dropped INT or one freaky catch away from winning that year.

And is #2 in reference to anyone besides Walter?