Brady vs. Montana: First 9 years

[PatsDparty]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

And when has Brady been any less clutch...lets not forget he did lead a should have been game winning drive in the SB that many don't talk about.

I think Brady and Montana are 1-2 and the order is up for debate us in new england will take Tommy Cali will take Montana and I bet it splits pretty even between the coasts.

If Tommy wins more SBs the debate will be over.

The only game I can think of is the AFC championship game against the Colts when he threw the pick to Marlin Jackson. I don't blame that loss on brady (rather the defense falling apart in the second half), but he did have a chance to go down and win the game at the end and didn't.

Also, I still don't know why they panicked after the Giants scored and started throwing bombs when they had enough time to get into field goal range, but once again Brady had the ball at the end of the game. I remember Brady missing Welker down the middle, so I might be wrong in this assessment (and then he got drilled by Tuck on the next play), but it seemed like Brady was rushing and not his cool self. However, this is not Madden and it would be pretty ridiculous to expect them to drive down the field again.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

The only game I can think of is the AFC championship game against the Colts when he threw the pick to Marlin Jackson. I don't blame that loss on brady (rather the defense falling apart in the second half), but he did have a chance to go down and win the game at the end and didn't.

Also, I still don't know why they panicked after the Giants scored and started throwing bombs when they had enough time to get into field goal range, but once again Brady had the ball at the end of the game. I remember Brady missing Welker down the middle, so I might be wrong in this assessment (and then he got drilled by Tuck on the next play), but it seemed like Brady was rushing and not his cool self. However, this is not Madden and it would be pretty ridiculous to expect them to drive down the field again.

May be nit-picking but he was his lesser-self vs Denver in the 2006 Divisional.
bad pick to Champ Bailey at the goal line to Troy Brown. The game was lost on turnovers and questionable PI calls no question.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Looking purely at stats isn't the answer, otherwise you'd have to say Marino or Peyton are better than Brady.

Also, historically teams in the 80's passed less than nowadays. Look at the total yardage of the top 10 passing teams every year in the 80's, compared to now. Bart Starr is in the Hall of Fame and his stats are far worse than Drew Bledsoe's.

It's true Brady did have great game winning FG drives, but Montana has had multiple game-winning TD drives, many of which were in huge games, coming from behind, and starting deep in his own territory. This, on top of his ridiculous Superbowl stats, still make him ahead of Brady through their first 9 years.

Now, if Brady wins a 4th ring to match Montana, and does it with some late game TD heroics, I could see him being the GOAT.

your assesment seems to ignore the INT column as you say passing is more prevelant yet Brady still threw less picks....as someone else said stats don't tell the whole story but they are part of it or better yet they are one of many tools to use as measuring sticks.

 

[xmarkd400x]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Any playoff performance where Brady doesn't look like Brady, I tend to think there's an injury. When the Pats lost to the Broncos in the playoffs? He had a sports hernia. I mean, are you f'n kidding me??

I think he was injured in the SB. We just won't know about it until after his career is over and another book is written.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Any playoff performance where Brady doesn't look like Brady, I tend to think there's an injury. When the Pats lost to the Broncos in the playoffs? He had a sports hernia. I mean, are you f'n kidding me??

I think he was injured in the SB. We just won't know about it until after his career is over and another book is written.

C'mon! Ellis Hobbs played at a high-level w/ a sports hernia. Why can't Brady?

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Any playoff performance where Brady doesn't look like Brady, I tend to think there's an injury. When the Pats lost to the Broncos in the playoffs? He had a sports hernia. I mean, are you f'n kidding me??

I think he was injured in the SB. We just won't know about it until after his career is over and another book is written.

I think it was well known he had an ankle injury in that superbowl which he hurt late in the Chargers game. (we all know of the SB36 ankle).

I also heard rumors he was playing SB42 with a sports hernia as well though that was a rumor and wasn't as documented as the ankles in 36 and 42

I am sure Montana played thru his share of pain too...leading the chiefs to 13-3 after his serious knee injury comes to mind.

 

[the taildragger]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

The only game I can think of is the AFC championship game against the Colts when he threw the pick to Marlin Jackson. I don't blame that loss on brady (rather the defense falling apart in the second half), but he did have a chance to go down and win the game at the end and didn't.

Also, I still don't know why they panicked after the Giants scored and started throwing bombs when they had enough time to get into field goal range, but once again Brady had the ball at the end of the game. I remember Brady missing Welker down the middle, so I might be wrong in this assessment (and then he got drilled by Tuck on the next play), but it seemed like Brady was rushing and not his cool self. However, this is not Madden and it would be pretty ridiculous to expect them to drive down the field again.

1: there was 17 seconds on the clock when he threw it to Marlin Jackson. the game was already over before he forced that, you can't possibly chalk that up to nervousness or choking. The colts had everyone in coverage buzzing around to make the pick....and I honestly can't remember who we were trying to throw to? Caldwell? Gaff? Troy?....it wasn't a fair fight.
2: they probably threw the first bomb because there was about 15 seconds on the clock....and because it was a damn good call and perfectly executed, other than maybe Randy not really fighting the corner for the ball...even if they don't score there they can tie the game with kick...the Giants DB coach called the tight coverage on that play as the best play of the game (not the helmet catch). The second bomb was desperation....last play of the game....they couldn't have thrown underneath on that one. the lack of time and the "prevent defense" won teh game for the Giants on that drive...yes, the prevent defense actually works in certain situations.

The Champ Bailey INT was thrown BEFORE Champ broke...it was a great play by what was the best corner in teh league....Tom didn't anticipate Champ would jump it because Champ had been crossed up by the pick plays all night...there are bad picks and good ones....most people can't figure it out. that was a good one.

the famous montana drive in 89 against Bengals was masterful and did indeed go the length of the field. but let's not go Paul Bunyan on it. He had a little help on that one (Rice's 27 yard catch over the middle is still for my money the best catch he ever made and Joe made a great throw under a lot of pressure)....and Joe's 10-yard game winner to Taylor was a thing of beauty. But Montana also had ALL 3 timeouts, the 2-minute warning (i.e. the 4th timeout), and did I mention Jerry Rice, John Taylor and Roger Craig? I still think what Brady did with 80 seconds and no timeouts and really a motley crew around him to get Adam in position was every bit as impressive if not more.

 

[The_Riddler]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Dwight Clark/Jerry Rice - 9 years

Randy Moss - 1 year

No one has even done more with less than Tommy the Great

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Not in the first 9 seasons.....

2006 was season #9 for Manning, since he's been in the league longer than Brady. He's gone 0-2 in the playoffs since then.

You're right...He only had 4 'one and dones' then.........

 

[A.C Vegas]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

There is No need to compare them they were from diffrent eras there are always great ones per era I am not old enough to have seen all in the super bowl era but i'll attempt to give a nice list

60's Bart starr
70's Terry bradshaw (this one is debateable)
80's Joe Montana
90's Troy Aikmen (again could be steve young)
00's Tom Brady

I think that preety much covers it

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

You're right...He only had 4 'one and dones' then.........

manning is a playoff choker. he puts up great numbers in the regular season and then goes one and done consistently. his brother too has 3 one and dones.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

the famous montana drive in 89 against Bengals was masterful and did indeed go the length of the field. but let's not go Paul Bunyan on it. He had a little help on that one (Rice's 27 yard catch over the middle is still for my money the best catch he ever made and Joe made a great throw under a lot of pressure)....and Joe's 10-yard game winner to Taylor was a thing of beauty. But Montana also had ALL 3 timeouts, the 2-minute warning (i.e. the 4th timeout), and did I mention Jerry Rice, John Taylor and Roger Craig? I still think what Brady did with 80 seconds and no timeouts and really a motley crew around him to get Adam in position was every bit as impressive if not more.

Great post.

However, I seem to recall that Brady had all 3 timeouts, the best offensive unit in NFL history, and needed 40 yards to kick a tying Superbowl FG, and failed to do it. You also are ignoring that Brady's first Superbowl drive involved a long pass to Troy Brown, so I'm not sure why you'd bring up/diminish Rice's catch. I'm not trying to diminish Brady, love the guy, but Montana has gone on multiple game-winning playoff drives, needing a TD, and getting a TD to win the game.

I also need to confirm this, but I believe Montana won his first two Superbowls with complete garbage/no-name offensive players, similar to Brady's early ring(s), but with a much lesser D behind him too.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Dwight Clark/Jerry Rice - 9 years
Randy Moss - 1 year
No one has even done more with less than Tommy the Great

Aside from Dwight Clark, can you name any other offensive player from Montana's first two Superbowls? They were no-name guys.

Jerry Rice joined AFTER Montana won two rings already, and Montana didn't have the D for his first two rings that Brady had for his first three rings.

Brady has obviously been one of the greatest ever, but I don't see how diminishing Montana's accomplishments will ever put Brady over Montana at this point. Brady needs to win another ring to enter the discussion, and even then he'd still need to have some TD-winning drives instead of field goals to definitively overtake Montana. Even before Jerry Rice arrived, Montana was putting together legendary game-winning TD (not FG) drives to win playoff games.

Also, Joe Montana in Superbowls: 11 TD's, no int's, 128 QB rating

 

[Absurdly Metro]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Also, Joe Montana in Superbowls: 11 TD's, no int's, 128 QB rating

Wow! Impressive stuff.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

At the end of the day, Brady probably will shatter Montana's stats, but it won't mean much because of the relative differences of the eras. It's easier to quarterback in the modern NFL, when DBs aren't allowed to breathe on WRs and defensive linemen get flagged for looking at the QB funny.

Don't get me wrong, I've claimed in the past that you can make a legit case for Brady as GOAT, but that's a debate that you can never conclusively settle, and definitely not by comparing raw stats across eras. VOA and YAR stats, maybe, but not stuff like yardage and TDs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Wow! Impressive stuff.

Montana Postseason Stats
G Att Comp Yds Com% TD INT Rtng
23 734 460 5772 62.7 45 21 95.3

Brady Postseason Stats
G Att Comp Yds Comp % TD INT Rtng
17 595 374 3954 62.5 25 12 88.0

Not saying TB/JM is better. Just pointing out post-season stats. Both are impressive

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Aside from Dwight Clark, can you name any other offensive player from Montana's first two Superbowls? They were no-name guys.

Jerry Rice joined AFTER Montana won two rings already, and Montana didn't have the D for his first two rings that Brady had for his first three rings.

Brady has obviously been one of the greatest ever, but I don't see how diminishing Montana's accomplishments will ever put Brady over Montana at this point. Brady needs to win another ring to enter the discussion, and even then he'd still need to have some TD-winning drives instead of field goals to definitively overtake Montana. Even before Jerry Rice arrived, Montana was putting together legendary game-winning TD (not FG) drives to win playoff games.

Also, Joe Montana in Superbowls: 11 TD's, no int's, 128 QB rating

I agree that we need not diminish Montana's accomplishments, but it seems that you are diminishing Montana's supporting cast. Aside from running an offense that was ahead of its time and that the league had not caught up with, with the best offensive coach in history, the defense had Hall of Famers in Ronnie Lott and Fred Dean in 81.

In 84 the defense led the league in points allowed and all 4 defensive backs made the Pro Bowl, as did LB Keena Turner. The running backs on the 84 team were Pro Bowler Wendell Tyler and Roger Craig. Russ Francis was the tight end. 3 offensive lineman made the Pro Bowl that season. The 84 team easily had more talent than at least the first 2 Patriots championship teams.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

However, I seem to recall that Brady had all 3 timeouts, the best offensive unit in NFL history, and needed 40 yards to kick a tying Superbowl FG, and failed to do it.

He was this close though:

Seriously, your expectations of how that drive should've unfolded remain outlandish, and you erroneously blame it on the OC. Honestly, they needed more than 40 yards. The coaching staff didn't let Ghost kick a 48 yarder earlier in the game, clearly they knew something we didn't. They needed to get to the 30, which would be 50 yards, and it had to be done in 30 seconds. After the blown block on 2nd down, they had no option but the bomb...and you can see how damn close it was.

 

[Sivy]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Great post.

However, I seem to recall that Brady had all 3 timeouts, the best offensive unit in NFL history, and needed 40 yards to kick a tying Superbowl FG, and failed to do it. You also are ignoring that Brady's first Superbowl drive involved a long pass to Troy Brown, so I'm not sure why you'd bring up/diminish Rice's catch. I'm not trying to diminish Brady, love the guy, but Montana has gone on multiple game-winning playoff drives, needing a TD, and getting a TD to win the game.

I also need to confirm this, but I believe Montana won his first two Superbowls with complete garbage/no-name offensive players, similar to Brady's early ring(s), but with a much lesser D behind him too.

on that final drive of the superbowl, I'm pretty sure Brady was doing what he was told to do by his coaches.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Aside from Dwight Clark, can you name any other offensive player from Montana's first two Superbowls? They were no-name guys.

that's just goofy.

Freddie Solomon scored twice as many points as Dwight Clark in 1981 (48-24) and almost twice as many in 1984 (66-36), not chopped liver

And you are trying to tell us that Roger Craig with his 1324 yards in 1984 was a "no name guy?"

are you serious?