Bruschi vs. Ray Lewis

[DarrylS]

Honestly, the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. And the writers have begun to recognize it as such.

When people look at the Stats and their accomplishments, people are going to see Bruschi with the 5 SB appearances and pause to think about it. It will also force them to re-evaluate Bruschi's time. Much like they had to do with Andre Tippett. In the end, who knows if Bruschi will be considered a Hall of Famer. In my book, he's been one since the day he stepped back onto the field after his stroke.

Gonna Miss You Tedy...

That makes a lot of sense, his jersey will be retired and he will receive his due here.. on the national stage the equilizer may be the 5 sb appearances + the stroke ... he has a lot of kodak moments that will resonate when the time comes.

 

[Miguel]

What's missing from this discussion??

Number of All-Pro appearances.
Number of DPOY awards.
Number of SB MVP awards.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What's missing from this discussion??

Number of All-Pro appearances.
Number of DPOY awards.
Number of SB MVP awards.

Number of seasons a player is credited with more tackles than defensive snaps (if Rick Gosselin's research can be trusted)?

 

[condon84]

I love Bruschi and all, but let's not get crazy here. My eyes tell me that Ray Lewis is a better player. Outside of NE fanboys, this conversation is ridiculous. Sorry.

 

[DaBruinz]

I love Bruschi and all, but let's not get crazy here. My eyes tell me that Ray Lewis is a better player. Outside of NE fanboys, this conversation is ridiculous. Sorry.

Everyone said the same thing about Andre Tippett as well.. Because he was over-shadowed by Lawrence Taylor.

But you missed some things in today's Press Conference that were pretty telling, IMHO. Belichick, who is never one to give praise lightly, said this about Bruschi...

1) Called him the Perfect Player
2) Called him an ALL PRO
3) Called him the BEST LB he's ever coached.

Ok. The 1st is pretty laudable. The 2nd had me curious. But the last one floored me. Especially since Belichick has coached guys like Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, and Harry Carson.. And Belichick called Bruschi the BEST. And, had you watched it, Belichick wasn't saying it out of posterity or out of false pretenses. His face said he meant it.

Another thing that surprised me was the report on AOL. The title read"

NFL STAR RETIRES...

Tedy Bruschi Retires -- Nfl FanHouse

If we're such "NE FAN BOYS" why would an AP reporter who doesn't regularly cover the Patriots call Bruschi an "NFL STAR."

While Bruschi didn't have the DPOY award or the SB MVP (though a good case could have been made for him in SB39 against the Eagles), or 1st Team ALL PRO Awards (no such thing as ALL PRO appearances as ALL PRO doesn't = PRO BOWL). Bruschi does have other things..

Here are Bruschi's numbers:
189 Games Played
139 Starts
30.5 Sacks
12 Interceptions (including 4 consecutive for TDs)
44 Passes Defensed
16 Forced Fumbles

2 2nd Teamm ALL PRO AWARDS (2003/2004)
5 SB Appearances
3 SB Victories
13 seasons with the same team

BTW, Bruschi's numbers are almost identical to Harry Carson's numbers.. And Harry Carson is considered one of the Best ILBs to play the game.

Bruschi didn't get the noteriety that Carson got because Carson had Taylor and Banks around him while Bruschi had Ted Johnson, Mike Vrabel, and Willie McGinest. It doesn't lessen either player.

 

[unoriginal]

quick search of Mike Singletary shows 19 sack 7 INTs but i couldn't find tackles or forced fumbles

Neither were official stats during his career.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Everyone said the same thing about Andre Tippett as well.. Because he was over-shadowed by Lawrence Taylor.

But you missed some things in today's Press Conference that were pretty telling, IMHO. Belichick, who is never one to give praise lightly, said this about Bruschi...

1) Called him the Perfect Player
2) Called him an ALL PRO
3) Called him the BEST LB he's ever coached.

Ok. The 1st is pretty laudable. The 2nd had me curious. But the last one floored me. Especially since Belichick has coached guys like Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, and Harry Carson.. And Belichick called Bruschi the BEST. And, had you watched it, Belichick wasn't saying it out of posterity or out of false pretenses. His face said he meant it.

Another thing that surprised me was the report on AOL. The title read"

NFL STAR RETIRES...

Tedy Bruschi Retires -- Nfl FanHouse

If we're such "NE FAN BOYS" why would an AP reporter who doesn't regularly cover the Patriots call Bruschi an "NFL STAR."

While Bruschi didn't have the DPOY award or the SB MVP (though a good case could have been made for him in SB39 against the Eagles), or 1st Team ALL PRO Awards (no such thing as ALL PRO appearances as ALL PRO doesn't = PRO BOWL). Bruschi does have other things..

Here are Bruschi's numbers:
189 Games Played
139 Starts
30.5 Sacks
12 Interceptions (including 4 consecutive for TDs)
44 Passes Defensed
16 Forced Fumbles

2 2nd Teamm ALL PRO AWARDS (2003/2004)
5 SB Appearances
3 SB Victories
13 seasons with the same team

BTW, Bruschi's numbers are almost identical to Harry Carson's numbers.. And Harry Carson is considered one of the Best ILBs to play the game.

Bruschi didn't get the noteriety that Carson got because Carson had Taylor and Banks around him while Bruschi had Ted Johnson, Mike Vrabel, and Willie McGinest. It doesn't lessen either player.

Belichick's comments floored me too, and have me rethinking my position on Bruschi pretty fundamentally. He's always been one of my favorite players, and I love the guy, but I had him falling short of the HOF. I still don't think he'll make it, but the fact that Belichick adamantly believes that he belongs there means something...

 

[Bostonian1962]

Bruschi: raised millions of dollars to help save lives

Lewis: Murdered at least one guy.

That is the funniest post I've ever seen.

 

[Tunescribe]

If Bruschi had entered the stadium on game day with a struttin' gangland jive dance it might have helped his chances.

 

[condon84]

Everyone said the same thing about Andre Tippett as well.. Because he was over-shadowed by Lawrence Taylor.

But you missed some things in today's Press Conference that were pretty telling, IMHO. Belichick, who is never one to give praise lightly, said this about Bruschi...

1) Called him the Perfect Player
2) Called him an ALL PRO
3) Called him the BEST LB he's ever coached.

Ok. The 1st is pretty laudable. The 2nd had me curious. But the last one floored me. Especially since Belichick has coached guys like Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, and Harry Carson.. And Belichick called Bruschi the BEST. And, had you watched it, Belichick wasn't saying it out of posterity or out of false pretenses. His face said he meant it.

Another thing that surprised me was the report on AOL. The title read"

NFL STAR RETIRES...

Tedy Bruschi Retires -- Nfl FanHouse

If we're such "NE FAN BOYS" why would an AP reporter who doesn't regularly cover the Patriots call Bruschi an "NFL STAR."

While Bruschi didn't have the DPOY award or the SB MVP (though a good case could have been made for him in SB39 against the Eagles), or 1st Team ALL PRO Awards (no such thing as ALL PRO appearances as ALL PRO doesn't = PRO BOWL). Bruschi does have other things..

Here are Bruschi's numbers:
189 Games Played
139 Starts
30.5 Sacks
12 Interceptions (including 4 consecutive for TDs)
44 Passes Defensed
16 Forced Fumbles

2 2nd Teamm ALL PRO AWARDS (2003/2004)
5 SB Appearances
3 SB Victories
13 seasons with the same team

BTW, Bruschi's numbers are almost identical to Harry Carson's numbers.. And Harry Carson is considered one of the Best ILBs to play the game.

Bruschi didn't get the noteriety that Carson got because Carson had Taylor and Banks around him while Bruschi had Ted Johnson, Mike Vrabel, and Willie McGinest. It doesn't lessen either player.

Belichick was emotional. You can't based Bruschi's ranking among great ILBs based on his emotional press conference. Bruschi is a good LB. But to compare him amongst the best ever? No way.

He was great in Belichick's system which is all about doing your job and being selfless. But Bruschi was not the type of player that other teams game-plan around their offense. Seymour is that type of player in our team. Seau was that type of player in his prime as well as Ray Lewis, Singletary, Lawrence Taylor, etc.

Lastly, we all love Belichick, but he's the biggest bullsh!tter. Listen to all his press conferences, they're all a joke. If he said that Bruschi is the best LB he's ever coached, you've gotta take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Timbo717]

Honestly, the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. And the writers have begun to recognize it as such.

When people look at the Stats and their accomplishments, people are going to see Bruschi with the 5 SB appearances and pause to think about it. It will also force them to re-evaluate Bruschi's time. Much like they had to do with Andre Tippett. In the end, who knows if Bruschi will be considered a Hall of Famer. In my book, he's been one since the day he stepped back onto the field after his stroke.

Gonna Miss You Tedy...

I think this is true in regards to the Pro Bowl. I view it the same way I view the MLB all-star game.

He'll be a borderline HOF guy, not a first time lock but maybe someone who is considered down the line. Either way, I think alot of Pats fans will consider him one even if he doesn't get the official nod.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Bruschi played in Five Superbowls, that might be his HOF ticket. Not many players can say that I think Charles Haley has the record with 7.

Haley won 5 but I think Mike Lodish played in 6 Super Bowls,4 w Buf (0-4) and 2 w Denver (2-0).

 

[Tunescribe]

Lastly, we all love Belichick, but he's the biggest bullsh!tter. Listen to all his press conferences, they're all a joke. If he said that Bruschi is the best LB he's ever coached, you've gotta take that with a grain of salt.

I think you're wrong here. BB referred to Bruschi as the "perfect football player," and in that respect, he sincerely considers him the best linebacker he's ever coached. He's possibly coached linebackers with more physical talent, but none smarter, none with greater leadership skills, and none a better team player.

 

[Amnorix]

Wow.

 

[Amnorix]

I think you're wrong here. BB referred to Bruschi as the "perfect football player," and in that respect, he sincerely considers him the best linebacker he's ever coached. He's possibly coached linebackers with more physical talent, but none smarter, none with greater leadership skills, and none a better team player.

Right, but that still doesn't mean that he's better than Ray Lewis.

By perfect, he meant attitude, work habits, personality, leadership, dedication. All the intangibles. Which is WHY he was able to survive for so long in the NFL despite size/strength/speed limitations. Alot like Troy Brown.

But that didn't make Troy Brown better than Randy Moss, and it doesn't make Tedy Bruschi better than Ray Lewis.

Seriously, I love Tedy too, but you gotta get a grip.

 

[Amnorix]

I think this is true in regards to the Pro Bowl. I view it the same way I view the MLB all-star game.

He'll be a borderline HOF guy, not a first time lock but maybe someone who is considered down the line. Either way, I think alot of Pats fans will consider him one even if he doesn't get the official nod.

ONE Pro Bowl. ONE. Zero first team All Pro selections.

He has absolutely no shot at the HOF. None. He's a hometown hero, but he's not a HOFer. Nor should he be, much as we love him.

 

[Amnorix]

Honestly, the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. And the writers have begun to recognize it as such.

When people look at the Stats and their accomplishments, people are going to see Bruschi with the 5 SB appearances and pause to think about it. It will also force them to re-evaluate Bruschi's time. Much like they had to do with Andre Tippett. In the end, who knows if Bruschi will be considered a Hall of Famer. In my book, he's been one since the day he stepped back onto the field after his stroke.

Gonna Miss You Tedy...

Overcoming personal adversity doens't get you in the HOF. Jim Abbott played MLB for 10 years without a right hand, and he's not in the HOF either.

 

[STUB STUB]

Right, but that still doesn't mean that he's better than Ray Lewis.

By perfect, he meant attitude, work habits, personality, leadership, dedication. All the intangibles. Which is WHY he was able to survive for so long in the NFL despite size/strength/speed limitations. Alot like Troy Brown.

But that didn't make Troy Brown better than Randy Moss, and it doesn't make Tedy Bruschi better than Ray Lewis.

Well said.

 

[Rob0729]

Honestly, the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. And the writers have begun to recognize it as such.

When people look at the Stats and their accomplishments, people are going to see Bruschi with the 5 SB appearances and pause to think about it. It will also force them to re-evaluate Bruschi's time. Much like they had to do with Andre Tippett. In the end, who knows if Bruschi will be considered a Hall of Famer. In my book, he's been one since the day he stepped back onto the field after his stroke.

Gonna Miss You Tedy...

I agree about the Pro Bowl, but disagree with a lot of the rest.

The five Super Bowl appearances may help. It did for Lynn Swan who didn't deserve to get in based on play alone, but Swan was an offensive player and if you look at the HOF it is waayyy biased towards offensive players. I still don't think it is enough for Bruschi.

Tippett had the stats (100 sacks in 11 years), Pro Bowls (5 times along with two All Pros), a DPOY nod, an AFC player of the year nod, and an All Decade birth. Tippett's only negative was the fact that he was overshadowed by arguably the greatest defensive player to ever play the game who wore the same number and got all the glory during the 80s.

Bruschi is my favorite player of all time because he embodied the Patriot Way, but unless the voters feel that they have to put in several Patriots during their Dynasty since only Brady and one or two others have legitimate chances of getting in based on production, then I can't see him having a shot.

 

[Tunescribe]

Right, but that still doesn't mean that he's better than Ray Lewis.

By perfect, he meant attitude, work habits, personality, leadership, dedication. All the intangibles. Which is WHY he was able to survive for so long in the NFL despite size/strength/speed limitations. Alot like Troy Brown.

But that didn't make Troy Brown better than Randy Moss, and it doesn't make Tedy Bruschi better than Ray Lewis.

Seriously, I love Tedy too, but you gotta get a grip.

You are the one who needs to get a grip. Or eyeglasses. Go back and re-read my post and who/what it was addressing. Hint: it had nothing at all to do with Ray Lewis.