Retirement leads to thin at ILB?

[DW Toys]

Bruschi has done almost nothing the preseason. I'm not sure that we are that much thinner without him. If anything, a roster spot is opened. pats1 posted the breakdown below.
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SIX MIGHT BE ENOUGH EVERYONE IS HEALTHY, SEVEN IS PLENTY FOR THE POSITION

In most games in the regular season, five linebackers get almost all the reps, perhaps six in some schemes.

Thomas, Burgess, Banta-Cain, Woods, Mayo, and Guyton make six. I would note that Green is also a pass-rusher reducing the burden on the linebackers.

We have another 2-3 roster spots. I think that we do need an ILB and a special teamer. I would add Lenon, giving us a solid, complete set of seven linebackers. Crable, Alexander, Ninkovitch and Ciurciu come to mind as additional "linebackers" who could make the squad.

Any more roster spots than seven should be allocated to special teamers or devlopmental players, who could be listed as a position linebacker, or not.
======================================
In the preseason, the Pats defense has almost exclusively looked like this, excluding injuries:

SLB: Thomas, MLB: Mayo, WLB: Guyton
SLB: Woods, MLB: Bruschi, WLB: Lenon/Crable
SLB: Alexander, MLB: Ciurciu, WLB: (Tank)

Early downs:
LDE: Warren, LDT: Wright, RDT: Wilfork, RDE: Seymour
LDE: S. Williams/(L. Smith), LDT: Pryor/Richard, RDT: Brace/Adams, RDE: Green

Passing downs:
LDE: Burgess, LDT: Green, RDT: Seymour, RDE: Banta-Cain/Ninkovich

I am mostly shocked that Crable has been a no-show.
DW Toys

 

[NEPatriot]

I think we've been watching the waiver wires from day one. As other's have mentioned, if we play predominately 4/3, dephth is not as much of an issue. Let's hope we stay healthy!

 

[Jimke]

The Patriots have the bodies to man the linebacking spots. The

question is whether they have the quality of linebacker required

to run the 3-4 defense. During their run of three Superbowl wins,

the Patriots had Mike Vrabel, Ted Johnson, Tedy Bruschi, Willie

McGinest, Roman Phifer, and later on Rosevelt Colvin. Does anyone

on this forum think that the current crop of linebackers can match

up to the forementioned group in a 3-4 defense?

 

[pats1]

The Patriots have the bodies to man the linebacking spots. The

question is whether they have the quality of linebacker required

to run the 3-4 defense. During their run of three Superbowl wins,

the Patriots had Mike Vrabel, Ted Johnson, Tedy Bruschi, Willie

McGinest, Roman Phifer, and later on Rosevelt Colvin. Does anyone

on this forum think that the current crop of linebackers can match

up to the forementioned group in a 3-4 defense?

Of course not. But the current crop of defensive lineman can match up to and far exceed the complete group from the Super Bowls. Hence the 4-3.

And your post echoes what I've been saying for a month: the Pats have been using a 4-3 because they simply don't have the guys to play a 3-4. If they still had Vrabel, things might be different, because he's someone you can put on the edge at OLB on early downs - they can't do that with Woods, Burgess, Crable, or Banta-Cain. Only Thomas, but that's only one OLB.

If they had the personnel to do it, they'd play a 3-4 right now. But they don't, so playing a 4-3 is in the best interest of this football team.

 

[patchick]

This and losing McKensie with a knee makes not taking a shot at Maualuga a little more of a "what"? in retrospect.

Losing their rookie ILB to injury makes them crazy for not having drafted a different ILB instead? So you're saying that...they should have magically forseen McKenzie would blow out his knee. Or that Maualuga would have been magically impervious to injury? Or that if they had drafted Maualuga and he had torn his ACL, then they would have been crazy for deciding to draft him in the first place? This goes beyond 20-20 hindsight -- we're actually slamming the front office for not being psychic.

Yes, they are a player short at ILB. With a healthy McKenzie, they probably wouldn't have been. You can call that bad luck, or you can fault them for not finding an alternative better than Lenon. But you can't call it a draft decision-making failure.


p.s. your wishing they hadn't taken Chung at #34 must mean you've found a new love for James Sanders, right?

 

[makoute]

Brushi's retirement didn't lead to a thin at ILB.

My sentiments exactly, they were already thin, Brushci's was done physically.

 

[slash83]

Of course not. But the current crop of defensive lineman can match up to and far exceed the complete group from the Super Bowls. Hence the 4-3.

And your post echoes what I've been saying for a month: the Pats have been using a 4-3 because they simply don't have the guys to play a 3-4. If they still had Vrabel, things might be different, because he's someone you can put on the edge at OLB on early downs - they can't do that with Woods, Burgess, Crable, or Banta-Cain. Only Thomas, but that's only one OLB.

If they had the personnel to do it, they'd play a 3-4 right now. But they don't, so playing a 4-3 is in the best interest of this football team.

I agree with what your saying your right on with the fact that we just don't have the lb's to play a 34. My question is inst it kind of worrying that BB does not have the personnel to play the defense he wants to? Let me just say that I think the defense has played well this preseason and are only going to get better with more playing time.

 

[pats1]

I agree with what your saying your right on with the fact that we just don't have the lb's to play a 34. My question is inst it kind of worrying that BB does not have the personnel to play the defense he wants to? Let me just say that I think the defense has played well this preseason and are only going to get better with more playing time.

Well, I would stop short of saying he wants to play the 3-4; I'd say he wants to play the defense that gives him the best chance to win, and that is determined on a year-to-year, game-to-game basis.

In this case, he thought Brace was a better value at that point in the draft than a LB that could have helped the Pats play a 3-4 and he thought that Burgess was a better value where he got him than signing any big-name LB in free agency.

Those were the personnel moves that he felt were in the best interest of the team, and this is the defense that those personnel moves has produced.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

McKenzie was supposedly a "steal" where the Pats drafted him. Brace was a "no-brainer" at the piont he was drafted, he is going to be a starter in the 4-3 by the end of October.

IF Mayo gets hurt, the Pats will go back to a 3-4 (or stay in it) and they will move Thomas back to the middle (or call Tedy out of retirement).

 

[JSn]

Here's a list of available Linebackers from Scout.com as of August 9. Anything here that might interested BB? I assume if they did, we'd have seen them in camp, but just wondered what you guys thought.

Inside Linebacker
Nate Webster (SLB) - Probably could still start if needed.
Derek Smith - His agent, Frank Bauer, said the 34-year old LB still wants to play.
Teddy Lehman - Talented, but oft-injured LB.
Napoleon Harris - Probably a backup at this point in his career.
Junior Seau - He hasn't said if he still wants to play.
Ryan Nece (SLB) - He's a solid, versatile backup.

Outside Linebacker
Derrick Brooks (WLB) - Will need to find a team that plays a cover-2. He said recently that still wants to play.
Marcus Washington (SLB) - Decent pass rusher in a 4-3 scheme from OLB.
Morlon Greenwood (WLB) - Long-time starter for the Dolphins and Texans and probably should be able to find a starting job if a team needs one during training camp.
Donnie Edwards (ILB/WLB) - 36-year old LB who could find work as camps get underway.
Junior Seau (ILB) - Still hasn't retired yet.
Antwan Peek (SLB/OLB in 3-4) - Missed all of last season with a knee injury and dealt with knee problems in 2007.
Dontarrious Thomas (WLB/MLB) - Versatility may help him find work as a backup.
Alex Lewis (SLB) - The Lions recently released him.
Willie McGinest (OLB in 3-4/DE in 4-3) - Best suited in a 3-4 as a backup. He reportedly still wants to play.
Shantee Orr (SLB/OLB in 3-4) - Decent pass-rushing OLB. Would be a solid backup.
Rocky Boiman (SLB/MLB) - Solid special team player and can play at least two positions at linebacker.
Carlos Polk (OLB in 3-4) - Veteran who fits in a 3-4 scheme as a fifth or sixth LB.
Gary Stills (SLB/OLB in 3-4) - Good special teams player, but was selected in the UFL draft.
Gilbert Gardner (SLB/WLB) - Former third-round pick of the Colts who fits in as a fifth or sixth linebacker.
Kris Griffin (ILB/MLB) - Solid special teamer and deep backup LB.

 

[mgteich]

I've wanted Harris when we brought in Lenon. Apparently, he has nothing left. Otherwise, he would be here. I also wanted us to draft Harris, but that is another story.

Here's a list of available Linebackers from Scout.com as of August 9. Anything here that might interested BB? I assume if they did, we'd have seen them in camp, but just wondered what you guys thought.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Losing their rookie ILB to injury makes them crazy for not having drafted a different ILB instead? So you're saying that...they should have magically forseen McKenzie would blow out his knee. Or that Maualuga would have been magically impervious to injury? Or that if they had drafted Maualuga and he had torn his ACL, then they would have been crazy for deciding to draft him in the first place? This goes beyond 20-20 hindsight -- we're actually slamming the front office for not being psychic.

Yes, they are a player short at ILB. With a healthy McKenzie, they probably wouldn't have been. You can call that bad luck, or you can fault them for not finding an alternative better than Lenon. But you can't call it a draft decision-making failure.


p.s. your wishing they hadn't taken Chung at #34 must mean you've found a new love for James Sanders, right?

Pity Maualuga has had trouble staying healthy in Cincinnati.

It will be interesting to see the initial 53's make-up, presently I see the standard 7 DL, with the basic 6 LBs (including Burgess who is training to be a NE OLB) plus a Crable to develop and Alexander/Lenon/Ciurciu for Special Teams...

 

[mgteich]

Yes, it seems ironic for DW to argue of Maualuga instead of Chung. Now, for me to make the argument for him or Laurinitis instead of Chung is another story entirely. Of course, one of these players could have been unlucky and we would be in the same position.

Losing their rookie ILB to injury makes them crazy for not having drafted a different ILB instead? So you're saying that...they should have magically forseen McKenzie would blow out his knee. Or that Maualuga would have been magically impervious to injury? Or that if they had drafted Maualuga and he had torn his ACL, then they would have been crazy for deciding to draft him in the first place? This goes beyond 20-20 hindsight -- we're actually slamming the front office for not being psychic.

Yes, they are a player short at ILB. With a healthy McKenzie, they probably wouldn't have been. You can call that bad luck, or you can fault them for not finding an alternative better than Lenon. But you can't call it a draft decision-making failure.


p.s. your wishing they hadn't taken Chung at #34 must mean you've found a new love for James Sanders, right?

 

[ALP]

First, McKenzie was probably going to play OLB.

Second, Maualuga has a lot of knocks against him and the general consensus is that he was not really suited for the Pats' defense.

Third, Bobby Carpenter has done nothing for his career so far even playing in a similiar 3-4 under Parcells. If he is finally switching the switch on and playing well, why would the Cowboys let him go after spending a first rounder on him?

why do u say that? i completely disagree (though i will say i dont know too much about it)

McKenzie would be second string or starting if it werent for his injury in my opinion.....why do so many of our most important LB rookies get hurt?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

...why do so many of our most important LB rookies get hurt?

Because they play a physical, difficult game?

 

[DaBruinz]

Simon,
Is that you? I missed you. Where have you been? Mr. Macho Lloyd has already chimed in.
As I asked a real question to the legitimate, thoughtful Patriot posters, I always think of you and Lloyd and how much insight you always offer to enhance these posts. Thank you.
How was that?
DW Toys

Asking the question wasn't what people take issue with. The problem people have with you is that when you post, you obliterate the good question with your silly and down right foolish hatred of players. ones that you continuously have been shown to be erroneous on.

I may not like certain players, but I give them credit where its due. You don't. You always blather on about how Sanders, Watson, Maroney, etc all suck and how you'd trade them for basically the table scraps from other teams.

BTW, you insults of calling me Simon and him Lloyd are just as stupid as your hatred Sanders, Maroney, Watson, etc. They show that we're dealing with an adolescent and not with someone who actually brings anything worthwhile to the table.

 

[RayClay]

why do so many of our most important LB rookies get hurt?

Because there's only three of them. Two injuries equals 66%.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Because there's only three of them. Two injuries equals 66%.

We have three rookie LBs this year?

 

[mayoclinic]

I've wanted Harris when we brought in Lenon. Apparently, he has nothing left. Otherwise, he would be here. I also wanted us to draft Harris, but that is another story.

Me too, both times. He lasted all of 5 days with the Raiders, so I assume he has nothing to offer. Too bad.

 

[RayClay]

We have three rookie LBs this year?

he didn't say this year

why do so many of our most important LB rookies get hurt?

that's the last ten years, important = higher than a fifth.

so many of one doesn't make sense, mr. box.