Defensive Revamp 09: Harrison, Vrabel, Bruschi

[BigMike]

along with firing Ellis Hobbs. BB determined to get younger faster and better this season. Given the young pups some time to gel, but I have a feeling it will be worth it.

 

[fgssand]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

along with firing Ellis Hobbs. BB determined to get younger faster and better this season. Given the young pups some time to gel, but I have a feeling it will be worth it.

No question about it, - will be fun watchig this "D" go from where they will be in Spet. - to where they will get too - come Feb.

 

[TheComeback]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

Though there a lot of complaints about the secondary's performance in Week 3, I think we still have a top 10 overall defense. We are definitely faster than last year. Bodden is almost assuredly better than Hobbs and Wilhite looks pretty solid for a second year fourth rounder. I think he gets the start and plays better than O'Neal did. That's all we need for now.

Another year of experience should improve Sanders and especially Meriweather, who could be on the verge of a Pro Bowl season. I don't see how this defense slips from last year.

Guyton looked nasty against the Redskins. He is even faster than I thought he was.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

This is a very young and very fast Defense. AD is the oldest but Seymour the longest serving, and he is only turning thirty.

 

[BigMike]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

young fast and willing to gamble to make big plays. Thats what has been misssing from this D for a few years now.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

Have contended all along that this team will not be on the bottom in red zone Defense...

 

[farn]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

We'll see. I think they can be improved enough to win. I think they're still the best team in the NFL (though it could be argued they're "just" top 5 calibre).

BUT... if anyone thinks Merriweather-Sanders-Bodden-Wilhite is (right now) comparable to the 03 DBs... I dunno. We'll see. Hopefully TFB is primed for some major Mossian hookups.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

We'll see. I think they can be improved enough to win. I think they're still the best team in the NFL (though it could be argued they're "just" top 5 calibre).

BUT... if anyone thinks Merriweather-Sanders-Bodden-Wilhite is (right now) comparable to the 03 DBs... I dunno. We'll see. Hopefully TFB is primed for some major Mossian hookups.

In 03 we had two guys who can make hall of fame cases in Law and Harrison, not easy to match that. I think Merriweather is getting better every game and I like what I've seen from Bodden but you're right, I don't think they'll be on that level. Now, I do think if we won in 04 with Law injured and Randall Gay covering TO we can win with this secondary.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I know ONE thing this defense will never do again. Remember 2 years ago we had one of the oldest defenses in the NFL?

Joseph Addai up the middle, runs 2 yards, breaks a tackle, another tackle, runs for 20 yards, another tackle, going north, outruns Harrison.

75 Yard BS touchdown!!!!

 

[cstjohn17]

I know ONE thing this defense will never do again. Remember 2 years ago we had one of the oldest defenses in the NFL?

Joseph Addai up the middle, runs 2 yards, breaks a tackle, another tackle, runs for 20 yards, another tackle, going north, outruns Harrison.

75 Yard BS touchdown!!!!

Personally I think the 07 defense has been unfairly criticized. The 2007 defense played very good when it mattered most, in the playoffs they had the best PPG against average. If Samuel, Merriweather or Harrison hangs onto the ducks Eli put in their mitts or Tyree doesn't pull some magic out his butt our perspective would be different.

New England Patriots 31, Jacksonville Jaguars 20
New England Patriots 21, San Diego Chargers 12
Superbowl - Giants 17 - Patriots 14

16.333 PPG average

We may be younger but I don't see the same pedigree in the younger players. Harrison, Bruschi and Vrabel were pro-bowl players. How many of these young players will make a probowl?

Vrabel - All time sack leader at Ohio State, 55 career sacks
Bruschi - All time NCAA sack leader, probowl player.
Harrison - Borderline HOFer, probowler, 30+ sacks, 30 INTs +

Younger and faster is nice, I guess but replacing those three is a tall task.

 

[captain insano]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

young fast and willing to gamble to make big plays. Thats what has been misssing from this D for a few years now.

yet the idiots at espn will continue to call the pats d old.

 

[Ring 6]

Personally I think the 07 defense has been unfairly criticized. The 2007 defense played very good when it mattered most, in the playoffs they had the best PPG against average. If Samuel, Merriweather or Harrison hangs onto the ducks Eli put in their mitts or Tyree doesn't pull some magic out his butt our perspective would be different.

New England Patriots 31, Jacksonville Jaguars 20
New England Patriots 21, San Diego Chargers 12
Superbowl - Giants 17 - Patriots 14

16.333 PPG average

We may be younger but I don't see the same pedigree in the younger players. Harrison, Bruschi and Vrabel were pro-bowl players. How many of these young players will make a probowl?

Vrabel - All time sack leader at Ohio State, 55 career sacks
Bruschi - All time NCAA sack leader, probowl player.
Harrison - Borderline HOFer, probowler, 30+ sacks, 30 INTs +

Younger and faster is nice, I guess but replacing those three is a tall task.

But replacing those 3 didnt start this March.
Bruschi has declined over a period of time and his playing time has been cut drastically. Mayo IS the replacement for Bruschi.
Harrison has barely played in the last few years, injured much more than healthy. Meriwheter has been his heir apparent for a while.
Vrabels decline seemed more sudden, so its less clear where his replacement comes from, but it appears, at least for this year that a combination of players will share his role.
In 2004 Bruschi and Harrison in coverage and Vrabel rushing the passer on a 3rd and 8 was a component of our success. By 2007-2008 it was a component of our liablities.
No player lasts forever, but the fact that we have 2 very good, young players drafted in round 1 among the 3 replacements is a very good sign.

 

[Ring 6]

along with firing Ellis Hobbs. BB determined to get younger faster and better this season. Given the young pups some time to gel, but I have a feeling it will be worth it.

Also gone is Deltha Oneil which means 5 of 11 starters have changed.
Considering we were a top 10 ranked D, it will be interesting to see if and how much of an upgrade those 5 changes represent.
Bruschi---Guyton
Hobbs----Bodden
ONeil----Wilite/Springs
Harrison----Meriwhether
Vrabel-----Woods/Burgess/Crabel

I have a hard time seeing decline. (It is a decline from those players primes, but not from the 2008 versions)

 

[DarrylS]

Also gone is Deltha Oneil which means 5 of 11 starters have changed.
Considering we were a top 10 ranked D, it will be interesting to see if and how much of an upgrade those 5 changes represent.
Bruschi---Guyton
Hobbs----Bodden
ONeil----Wilite/Springs
Harrison----Meriwhether
Vrabel-----Woods/Burgess/Crabel

I have a hard time seeing decline. (It is a decline from those players primes, but not from the 2008 versions)

Good presentation, the only question I have would be the replacement(s) for Vrabel... he had a ton of football smarts and instincts, not sure these guys can replace that.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

We may be younger but I don't see the same pedigree in the younger players. Harrison, Bruschi and Vrabel were pro-bowl players. How many of these young players will make a probowl?

Vrabel - All time sack leader at Ohio State, 55 career sacks
Bruschi - All time NCAA sack leader, probowl player.
Harrison - Borderline HOFer, probowler, 30+ sacks, 30 INTs +

Younger and faster is nice, I guess but replacing those three is a tall task.

Meriweather--Most tackles by a defensive back in the history of Miami (Ed Reed, Sean Taylor, Bennie Blades, countless other star DBs); 2 time Thorpe Finalist; 1st round pick

Mayo--Most tackles by a Tennessee Vol in nearly 20 years, captain as a junior, 10th overall pick, defensive rookie of the year

Burgess---led the NFL in sacks with 16 in 2005, 2 time Pro Bowler (as many as Bruschi and Vrabel combined)

Chung---51 straight starts at Oregon, Freshman All-American, two time first team All Pac 10.

And remember, Rodney Tedy and Vrabel were not starters early in their careers, and did not make a major impact with the Patriots until they had reached veteran status (Rodney was 30 when he joined the NEP)

Not at all trying to punch holes in the resumes of 3 of the greatest players of this dynasty, just trying to say that we have some newer guys with impressive resumes themselves. Not to mention Seymour, Wilfork and Warren dominating up front with their impressive pedigrees (all 3 are Pro Bowlers and first round picks).

The most important thing to keep in mind is that we aren't replacing those 3 guys in their prime; we're replacing them from last season, when it is inarguable that they were all at their least effective, save possibly for Harrison, during their time with the Pats.

 

[Ring 6]

Good presentation, the only question I have would be the replacement(s) for Vrabel... he had a ton of football smarts and instincts, not sure these guys can replace that.

Maybe, maybe not. But the chore isn't replacing people, its getting 11 guys on the field who play well as a unit.
I don't think you'll ever see a good unit replaced by one that is better at everything at every position.
I'm confident the 11 people we have on the field will get the duties Mike Vrabel had done.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

But replacing those 3 didnt start this March.
Bruschi has declined over a period of time and his playing time has been cut drastically. Mayo IS the replacement for Bruschi.
Harrison has barely played in the last few years, injured much more than healthy. Meriwheter has been his heir apparent for a while.
Vrabels decline seemed more sudden, so its less clear where his replacement comes from, but it appears, at least for this year that a combination of players will share his role.
In 2004 Bruschi and Harrison in coverage and Vrabel rushing the passer on a 3rd and 8 was a component of our success. By 2007-2008 it was a component of our liablities.
No player lasts forever, but the fact that we have 2 very good, young players drafted in round 1 among the 3 replacements is a very good sign.

Good points.

I would also point out that the defense will have a full complement TB offense. I can only imagine this offense with Welker, Morris, and Faulk. How much would the Redskins have had the ball on Friday?

Knowing your offense will score allows you to do things that we couldn't do last year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Defensive Revamp 09:Harrison, Vrable, Bruschi

yet the idiots at espn will continue to call the pats d old.

It is funny- I've been correcting non-Pats fans on this for a while, but with Bruschi gone Adalius, Springs and Burgess are the only significant players in the Pats' defense over the age of 30. Even TBC just turned 29 three days ago. But yeah, pretty much everyone is still stuck on the old thing.

 

[BelizePats]

No matter how you slice it, its a huge transition. If you had told me at the start of the 2008 season that all 3 of Rodney, Vrable and Bruschi would not be on the team to begin the 2009 season, I would have dropped a ton of $ on that not happening.
Andy hit it nicely in saying that our strengths in 2004 was our liability in 2007.
Nothing stays the same for long and our coach is able to understand and address this reality far better than just about every other GM in the game.
Our defense has gotten a lot younger and faster over the last 2 years and now we just have to wait and see how the pieces come together over the course of the upcoming season.
While I hate to see our defensive icons depart, this had to happen in order to get back to a championship level. There is no other way to say it!
If Brady stays healthy and the O puts up a lot of points, it will allow the defense some time to jell and come into its own. I suspect that our defense will a lot better in December, barring injuries, that it will be at the beginning of the year, particularly the secondary.
Change tugs at the heart strings but it is necessary.

 

[tajapandu]

This team, especially the defense, always seems to gel towards the end of the season. I think with such young, fast players this time around, they could be a very, very good defense towards the end of the season.