Other thoughts on tonight's game...

[patsox23]

Because my previous thread won't re-load for some reason. Apologies to the mods, feel free to delete it.

A brief preface: I fully subscribe to the "it's only pre-season" mantra, so take this all with a grain of salt.

1) Kevin O'Connell sucks. He was absolutely horrible, and I'm not sure why he was SMILING at the end of the game. Apparently he doesn't realize that he may have just played himself down to #3 on the QB depth chart.

2) Matthew Slater is the worst "look how smart we are" pick of the BB era. and we TRADED UP for him.

3) The defense, while likely not as ****ty as they looked tonight, isn't much better. Teams will pass-pass-pass, especially early as the youngsters in the secondary continue to learn how to...play football, I guess.

4) Wilhite taking back a pick-six doesn't change the fact the entire secondary, himself included, STUNK tonight.

5) Brady, if okay, which it appears he is, will be fine. He looks as sharp as we could expect him to. The hit by Haynesworth was absolutely a roughing the passer, driving him into the turf, but whatever. As long as the shoulder's okay, who gives a bleep.

6) Before people get all excited about BJGE vs. Maroney, BJGE was running through massive holes. Maroney was dancing a bit, but mostly because he had to. And his receiving was, as always, wildly underrated. He is a weapon in the passing game. But back to the running "holes..."

7) While I don't buy into our OL being elite, I do think they're pretty darn good. Not tonight.

8) Pass rush was good, even when they didn't quite get there, there was solid push.

9) Tackling was abominable. Wretched. Putrid. Horrific. Can't emphasize this enough. It is a big-time problem that, if not addressed, means the Patriots have no shot at the Super Bowl.

10) I think, largely from beginning to end, with occasional bright spots in the middle, this was a terrible performance by the Patriots and that you could read that all over BB's face. Who knows if it'll help, but I expect he will tear into them and might even play non-Brady vets deep into the first half next week.

 

[JDSal45]

Many of your points are ridiculous exagerrations. O'Connell sucks? Kinda looks like Cassell did last year in preseason. Turned out he didn't suck at all. Must be easy to jump to conclusions on 2 quarters of play. Its pretty idiotic too.

Slater? Yeah, 2 dumb penalties in two weeks. He also is in on just about every special teams tackle there is and also disrupts many returns when he isn't. I'm not saying you should ignore dumb special teams plays. But its pretty stupid to completely miss the good ones too as if you aren't paying attention.

I didn't see any problem with the starting o-line tonight. Brady had tons of time and the Skins were coming after him.

Did you kick your dog during the game too? The Pats are 5-4 in the 3rd preseason game under BB coming into tonight. They lost in years they won the Super Bowl. They won in years they didn't. In the end, you are looking too hard for negatives.

J D Sal

 

[patsox23]

Wow, JD. Why don't you take my comments more personally? I thought he sucked tonight, and that he's sucked throughout the pre-season. As for Cassel, he ABSOLUTELY sucked in pre-season last year, as well, and many of us said so. Sorry you disagree. But hey, way to go in terms of taking it all with a grain of salt!

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

They lost in years they won the Super Bowl. They won in years they didn't. In the end, you are looking too hard for negatives.

J D Sal

Uh Oh............. Didn't we win tonight...........

As for the OP, I agree........ total exageration............. Defense after the first drive, was solid for then next 1.5 quarters, with good pressure and coverage. Then the got soft, knocked back on thier heels an played terrible after that. It's like they packed it in after 1.5 quarters. There was some good things, and I hope the 4-3 thing is just some experiment for BB. I don't like how it looks. Out of synch. When they were on, they were on. When they we off.......... they were way off. 3rd quarter, they looked gassed, that is a conditioning thing.

Offensively, there was some real nice moment. They were obviously playing around with some things, but overall solid. Line played better I thought. Galloway looked better (got a little ways to go still, but looked better).

Brady and Moss looked mid-season, and while LoMo was pedestrian in the run game, he looked good out of the backfield. Taylor... Ennnh, all right. Some decent stuff, some bad stuff, but overall not terrible. In other words, it looked like a pre-season game.

Washington looked good. I think Campbell will be a lot better this year. He's showing maturity.

O'con........ Yeah, pretty bad..... 0.0 passer rating

 

[JDSal45]

Wow, JD. Why don't you take my comments more personally? I thought he sucked tonight, and that he's sucked throughout the pre-season. As for Cassel, he ABSOLUTELY sucked in pre-season last year, as well, and many of us said so. Sorry you disagree. But hey, way to go in terms of taking it all with a grain of salt!

Yeah, he sucked in preseason. Turns out the limited opportunity to evaluate Cassel on the whole by fans like you was wrong. Because, as it turned out, he didn't suck as a QB. Yet here you are learning nothing.

Pathetic.

J D Sal

 

[patsox23]

Yeah, he sucked in preseason. Turns out the limited opportunity to evaluate Cassel on the whole by fans like you was wrong. Because, as it turned out, he didn't suck as a QB. Yet here you are learning nothing.

Pathetic.

J D Sal

LOL. You are very, very angry about this. I'm willing - even happy - to be wrong about O'Connell. I was worried about Cassel last pre-season, but not necessarily one of the people calling for him to be cut. But if your argument is that Cassel DIDN'T suck last pre-season, I disagree. If it's that sucking in pre-season doesn't mean you actually SUCK and always will, I agree.

I just feel, from having watched O'Connell play a lot of football, including in person at Gillette and in Southern California, that he is - so far, anyway - doing a poor job. If you disagree, that's cool. And, again, I hope you're right, I'd LOVE to be wrong about him.

As for how vociferously angry you're being about all this, I'm not sure what to say. I apologize if I offended you with a divergent perspective.

 

[condon84]

While the Pats' defense gave up 17 points in the first half, I don't think it's as bad as you're making it sound. We had three straight three and outs after the first Redskins series. The first TD drive was aided by stupid penalties that I believe can be corrected. And the second TD drive was aided by a ridiculous 70 yard pass play that won't happen too often (well I hope not anyway). Our tackling should get better as the season goes along and our new/young secondary players will develop a better chemistry to prevent plays like the one we gave up to Cooley. Besides those plays, our defense played pretty well.

As you mentioned, our pass rush was there for the most part. Our secondary, although beaten a couple of times, was competitive.

I agree about Maroney. Not too many holes to run through. BJGE had huge holes to run through. If Maroney had those types of holes, he'd be an All-Pro. He made his presence felt in the passing game and was quite effective. I don't understand why we don't use him like that more often.

O'Connell didn't help himself tonight. The kid looks like he's just not focused enough. Bad practice habits maybe? He's got the physical tools, but he looks like he doesn't have the maturity level to completely grasp what the hell is going on out there.

Galloway and Brady still are not on the same page. HOWEVER, Galloway on his longest catch from Brady showed what type of impact he can have on this team. Teams are going to have to respect his speed and that curl should be there all year long for him if he's being covered one-on-one.

 

[Gunnails]

I saw a top 5 O.

An excelent D line.

Brady played well

D secondary is suspect.

Not impressed with the running game as a whole, Taylor looked meh.

Pat fans should look forward to another great season.

Sucks for me.

 

[signbabybrady]

As for the OP, I agree........ total exageration............. Defense after the first drive, was solid for then next 1.5 quarters, with good pressure and coverage. Then the got soft, knocked back on thier heels an played terrible after that. It's like they packed it in after 1.5 quarters. There was some good things, and I hope the 4-3 thing is just some experiment for BB. I don't like how it looks. Out of synch. When they were on, they were on. When they we off.......... they were way off. 3rd quarter, they looked gassed, that is a conditioning thing.

It actually looked to me like when they got a little soft they had switched to 3-4 but I am guessing that was a coincidence and not neccessarily the reason. The 2 minute drive was mostly sub package so I am not going by that drive. Just a first look though better to wait and watch a second time.

 

[signbabybrady]

I saw a top 5 O.

An excelent D line.

Brady played well

D secondary is suspect.

Not impressed with the running game as a whole, Taylor looked meh.

Pat fans should look forward to another great season.

Sucks for me.

nice quick breakdown Gunner....nice to have an outsiders prospective.(one who isnt just fanning flames)

 

[italia44]

Wow, JD. Why don't you take my comments more personally? I thought he sucked tonight, and that he's sucked throughout the pre-season. As for Cassel, he ABSOLUTELY sucked in pre-season last year, as well, and many of us said so. Sorry you disagree. But hey, way to go in terms of taking it all with a grain of salt!

pretty much agree about koc....he's not stepping into his throws.
If you can't throw that sideline out,on time,DON'T friggin' throw it!

Slater is out of control...I think this was the 3rd time he's interfered with the punt catcher....Not acceptable.

Nobody in the secondary,except maybe Bodden,turns to face the throw and the only one who seems to tackle is Meriweather,maybe Sanders.

On the other hand....Wilfork is playing like a madman.....I thought he was gonna KILL someone out there.

Jerod Mayo is a STUD...S-T-U-D....they're turning him loose this year on those blitzes and he looks twice as fast this year.

Randy"friggin'" Moss...what can you say?I think if they left him in with TB,he would have caught 20 passes.He was absolutely torturing Leon Hall and Leron Landry.

Lastly,Mr Light better not get too comfortable.Vollmer is really progressing.Looked damn-good at LT,tonite.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

LOL. You are very, very angry about this. I'm willing - even happy - to be wrong about O'Connell. I was worried about Cassel last pre-season, but not necessarily one of the people calling for him to be cut. But if your argument is that Cassel DIDN'T suck last pre-season, I disagree. If it's that sucking in pre-season doesn't mean you actually SUCK and always will, I agree.

I just feel, from having watched O'Connell play a lot of football, including in person at Gillette and in Southern California, that he is - so far, anyway - doing a poor job. If you disagree, that's cool. And, again, I hope you're right, I'd LOVE to be wrong about him.

As for how vociferously angry you're being about all this, I'm not sure what to say. I apologize if I offended you with a divergent perspective.

You two are like pot and kettle. KOC didn't suck, but he make some mistakes, some bad judgements and some poor throws. That's what they saw early in camp that led to Walter being signed. Cassel didn't move the offense last preseason - because it sucked. He didn't make multiple, repetitive mistakes in the process of dealing with that. KOC isn't as developed as Cassel was in year 1. But then he didn't have the pedigree and he didn't have a season as #3 to Brady.

The body language and facials are a little disturbing, though. The plan to bring Walter in for a 2 minute drive, before the punt return set up FG range, was not an endorsement of KOC. I'm a little surprised BB didn't yank him a series sooner.

We're definitely keeping 3 QB's on the roster.

 

[BelichickFan]

KOC didn't suck

I would say he sucked tonight but not that "he sucks". He's still a second year QB who has a long way to go and looks like he's going to be the #3 QB. He was bad tonight but for the OP to declare "he sucks" is kind of silly.

 

[Marqui]

Lastly,Mr Light better not get too comfortable.Vollmer is really progressing.Looked damn-good at LT,tonite.

Vollmer looked like a beast. He was manhandling Orakpo all first quarter.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Where was Edelman tonight?

 

[DaBruinz]

Because my previous thread won't re-load for some reason. Apologies to the mods, feel free to delete it.

A brief preface: I fully subscribe to the "it's only pre-season" mantra, so take this all with a grain of salt.

1) Kevin O'Connell sucks. He was absolutely horrible, and I'm not sure why he was SMILING at the end of the game. Apparently he doesn't realize that he may have just played himself down to #3 on the QB depth chart. He was never truly the #2. He only had it by default last year. Walter showed that he was the number two. That being said, the combination of Yates, Wendell and Connolly on the interior would make even Brady look horrible

2) Matthew Slater is the worst "look how smart we are" pick of the BB era. and we TRADED UP for him. It would have been nice if you actually watched the whole game. Slater may have screwed up on the one punt, but he was damn good on the kick coverages and the rest of the punt coverages.

3) The defense, while likely not as ****ty as they looked tonight, isn't much better. Teams will pass-pass-pass, especially early as the youngsters in the secondary continue to learn how to...play football, I guess.

4) Wilhite taking back a pick-six doesn't change the fact the entire secondary, himself included, STUNK tonight.

What game did you friggin watch? The secondary played very well tonight against the Redskins 1st team. Did they give up a couple of scores? Yeah.. But that's going to happen in the league because of the rules in place. You assessment of them is absolutely horrible..

5) Brady, if okay, which it appears he is, will be fine. He looks as sharp as we could expect him to. The hit by Haynesworth was absolutely a roughing the passer, driving him into the turf, but whatever. As long as the shoulder's okay, who gives a bleep.

The referees let a lot of after the play contact go. Besides the call on Haynesworth, they didn't make the call on Landry when he got toasted by Moss on the TD pass. Landry CLEARLY threw Moss to the ground after the pass was caught..

6) Before people get all excited about BJGE vs. Maroney, BJGE was running through massive holes. Maroney was dancing a bit, but mostly because he had to. And his receiving was, as always, wildly underrated. He is a weapon in the passing game. But back to the running "holes..."

We agree on this...

7) While I don't buy into our OL being elite, I do think they're pretty darn good. Not tonight.

The O-line is amongst the best at Pass blocking. I don't know why they can't run block other than on Draw plays, but they need to go back to whatever they were doing the 2nd half of last season. That worked. The current scheme isn't.

8) Pass rush was good, even when they didn't quite get there, there was solid push.

9) Tackling was abominable. Wretched. Putrid. Horrific. Can't emphasize this enough. It is a big-time problem that, if not addressed, means the Patriots have no shot at the Super Bowl.

Again, not sure what you were looking at because I saw plenty of good solid tackling.. There were a couple of individual plays (Lenon, Bruschi, Wilhite) but, over-all it was good.

10) I think, largely from beginning to end, with occasional bright spots in the middle, this was a terrible performance by the Patriots and that you could read that all over BB's face. Who knows if it'll help, but I expect he will tear into them and might even play non-Brady vets deep into the first half next week.

I have to disagree with you. I think there was plenty of good from this game and only the occasional bad. I also think that you are guessing more than knowing as to what Belichick was thinking.

Patsox23 -
Even taking into consideration your preface, this has got to be one of the worst analysis you've ever put up. You over-stated the negatives greatly. Were there issues? Yep. Always are. Could they be better? Yep.. And they've got nearly 2 weeks to get better. But they aren't last year's Oakland Raiders and in preseason, you've got to focus on the different situations and the personnel on the field as you do the outcome. If you don't, then you miss the entire reason tehy play the games.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Where was Edelman tonight?

 

[DocE]

Thoughts on the game focusing most on the first half.

My biggest concern on the defensive side of the ball is the secondary play. They would have looked even worse if Campbell would have been able to connect with Moss on that deep ball. I don't think any of our safeties appear fast with the exception of Merriweather. As another poster noted, our coverage was either fly paper sticky or non-existant and there was little in between.

The run defense looked very good, and there were signs of a pass rush at times. I think our base 4-3 can get pressure, but I wonder if they can seal the deal. Seymour and Warren playing ends in a 4-3 bring power, but they lack the speed to turn the corner.

The blitzes we are running need to get there more consistently. There were several times where the blitz was effective (in my opinion) because we were not playing against a top tier QB. Manning, Rivers, Brees, etc would have made the Pats pay for not getting there.

My biggest concern on the offensive side of the ball is the run blocking, especially on obvious run downs. We got very little push on our first and 10 runs and our 3rd and short runs continued to be terrible. I don't believe you can win a championship if you cannot line up 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 and run for a first down consistently.

Maroney looked good in the passing game, and had a very nice effort on a 3rd and short run. Fred Taylor seems to be lacking initial explosion.

Brady to Moss was the offense tonight, it was great to see them dominate, but nobody else stepped up their game. Without Welker (or even Edelman) to run some underneath possession type stuff, we really struggled to move the ball. Galloway has got to start running "Patriot routes" as BB noted.

Special Teams: Slater had another penalty? I would bet money he makes the team but I expect so much more from a guy who essentially only plays special teams. Chung, even though his later punt return won the game, probably lost any chance of handling a regular season punt this year with his 2nd fumble.

2nd Half

O'Connell looked really poor tonight. I am not going to over react to pre-season football, but O'Connell has not looked good this year.

Interesting to see Pierre Woods playing at the very end of the game, I was hoping he wouldn't get hurt out there.

Good to see Terrence Wheatley not getting embarrassed this week.

I liked what I saw from Steve Williams and Titus Adams rushing the passer, but it didn't appear our run defense was stout with them on the line. There's no room for them on the roster, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a DT needy team like Carolina pick one of them up.

 

[PatsFan37]

I'm going to take a stand for KOC here. No he did not look good. And he should'nt have thrown that duck to the sideline. But he was fighting his inclination to tuck and run, he stood in there against an aggressive rush and sadly, he cannot yet judge the closing speed of NFL CBs.

That's the mistake QBs make when they haven't played much in the NFL. They don't sense the pocket and they don't sense the speed of CBs. There's only one way to learn and that's why Belichick left him out there. Practice will not teach him the speed of the game.

KOC is not Tom Brady. He's not even Flacco or Ryan. But I wouldn't judge him on this game. Let's remember that Campbell went 1-7 last week and I think everyone agrees he looked okay last night.

 

[makoute]

I thought Wilhite and Bodden played pretty well, and have looked pretty good this whole preseason.