4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?

[upstater1]

I've been thinking in the back of my mind that Belichick no longer fears the Colts. not because they lack players anymore, but because Dungy is gone and the OL looks like a sieve. This Caldwell fellow flamed out royally during his first HC gig, and Peyton called him out this offseason.

In most sports, teams are designed with the idea of besting their best competitors. For New England in the last decade, there was no getting to the Super Bowl without getting by Indianapolis. The 3-4 defense was great for frustrating Manning, because Manning loves to grab chunks of yards, and for many years he lacked the patience to take a team downfield and simply settle for a field goal. Belichick's 3-4 was Manning's kryptonite (until that Championship game implosion).

I'm not saying this is anything more than speculation, but I believe that the Patriots were somewhat designed to defeat high flying passing attacks, the likes we've seen from the Colts and Rams of 2001-2002. If the Colts are no longer the threat they once were (and I for one believe that firmly) then it would make sense for Belichick to move away from the one defense that has repeatedly frustrated Peyton Manning.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've been thinking in the back of my mind that Belichick no longer fears the Colts. not because they lack players anymore, but because Dungy is gone and the OL looks like a sieve. This Caldwell fellow flamed out royally during his first HC gig, and Peyton called him out this offseason.

In most sports, teams are designed with the idea of besting their best competitors. For New England in the last decade, there was no getting to the Super Bowl without getting by Indianapolis. The 3-4 defense was great for frustrating Manning, because Manning loves to grab chunks of yards, and for many years he lacked the patience to take a team downfield and simply settle for a field goal. Belichick's 3-4 was Manning's kryptonite (until that Championship game implosion).

I'm not saying this is anything more than speculation, but I believe that the Patriots were somewhat designed to defeat high flying passing attacks, the likes we've seen from the Colts and Rams of 2001-2002. If the Colts are no longer the threat they once were (and I for one believe that firmly) then it would make sense for Belichick to move away from the one defense that has repeatedly frustrated Peyton Manning.

They need to beat teams with good run defenses and great pass rushes now. See Steelers and Giants. In theory, that would mean having a strong running game and a good 3-step-drop passing game and strong pass-protection.

They have the O-line w additions such as Vollmer and Baker to pass block.

They have the passing game w/ additions such as Baker & Smith (TBD)

They have the running game w/ the addition of Taylor, Baker to run-block and a healthy Maroney.

Time will tell is this is enough.

 

[xmarkd400x]

I really think it just depends on the personnel. The Patriots picked up a lot of players who are DE/OLB types, but tend to lack in coverage. To augment this, you put them on the line and have the DBs cover.

So, I think the 4-3 is still more of a 3-4, but with one OLB putting his hand down and lining up at the DE spot, and being asked to do a little less of the OLB-type things, but still not strictly DE-type things.

 

[stinkypete]

I think it would be very un-Belichick to build a defense around one opponent. Yes, the Pats/Colts rivalry has gotten plenty of airplay in a Sox/Yankees or Celtics/Lakers sense, but Indy is just one team in a conference that has produced plenty of perennial contenders this decade.

When Belichick laid down the groundwork for the 3-4 defense during the 2003 offseason, the Colts were not necessarily on the radar as a perennial contender in waiting. The AFC was more of a jumble with the likes of Oakland, Miami, Tennessee, New York and Denver looking as ready to make the leap as Indy.

Though I do agree that the 3-4 has been the best defense for beating Peyton Manning. This may be the primary reason why New England and Pittsburgh have dominated the AFC, with Indy finishing a distant 3rd in comparison. The Colts can't even get past San Diego, which has all of one playoff victory against non-Colts opponents this decade.

 

[Bluto]

I think it would be very un-Belichick to build a defense around one opponent. Yes, the Pats/Colts rivalry has gotten plenty of airplay in a Sox/Yankees or Celtics/Lakers sense, but Indy is just one team in a conference that has produced plenty of perennial contenders this decade.

When Belichick laid down the groundwork for the 3-4 defense during the 2003 offseason, the Colts were not necessarily on the radar as a perennial contender in waiting. The AFC was more of a jumble with the likes of Oakland, Miami, Tennessee, New York and Denver looking as ready to make the leap as Indy.

Though I do agree that the 3-4 has been the best defense for beating Peyton Manning. This may be the primary reason why New England and Pittsburgh have dominated the AFC, with Indy finishing a distant 3rd in comparison. The Colts can't even get past San Diego, which has all of one playoff victory against non-Colts opponents this decade.

The 3-4 just offers more options and additional confusion for the offense. Look at Buffalo who went 1-7 vs. 3-4 teams last season. Stick to the many options.

 

[spacecrime]

I've been thinking in the back of my mind that Belichick no longer fears the Colts. not because they lack players anymore, but because Dungy is gone and the OL looks like a sieve. This Caldwell fellow flamed out royally during his first HC gig, and Peyton called him out this offseason.

This Belichick fellow flamed out royally his first HC gig, and he sucked not only his first offseason, but his first offseason, his first regular season, and his second offseason. If Caldwell is true to the pattern, the Colts will win 3 superbowls in the next five years.

 

[mayoclinic]

Here's a nice read on the Pats using more 4-3 from ProFootballWeekly:

ProFootballWeekly.com - Patriots adding 4-3 elements to defense

Nothing earth-shattering, but a decent analysis.

 

[ICSB]

OL looks like a sieve.

It does? Based on preseason? Looked okay to me against the Eagles. Much better then Patriots o line against the Bengals of all teams.

This Caldwell fellow flamed out royally during his first HC gig, and Peyton called him out this offseason.

No he didnt. He expressed a desire to know what would happen with Mudd and Moore. They are back. He wanted to know who his OC would be for the season and if his o line coach would be back. That is all. More the media making a big deal out of nothing. Seems to me it was more directed to Polian.

3-4 was Manning's kryptonite (until that Championship game implosion).

Actually it started in 2005. Your defense has declined some since then. Actually should we just say since Ty Law left? The SD defense has become to Peyton what the Patriots D of old was.

The 3-4 D is not what gives Peyton trouble alone. A 3-4 with talent is what gives any QB trouble. A 4-3 with talent can give Peyton trouble. (see TN)



And if your HC actually changed your D in order to go along with a popular predicted demise of a team then he is losing his marbles. Thats more something Jack Del Rio would do.

And the Colts can throw the ball pretty well. Peyton can put up a lot of points to Wayne, Clark and Gonzalez and others. I do hope people underestimate our passing game then.

 

[upstater1]

This Belichick fellow flamed out royally his first HC gig, and he sucked not only his first offseason, but his first offseason, his first regular season, and his second offseason. If Caldwell is true to the pattern, the Colts will win 3 superbowls in the next five years.

Go back and check the record.

Belichick brought the Browns to the playoffs.

Caldwell's accomplishment is someone in the vicinity of the next universe of Belichick's accomlishment.

I'll bring this back up with a big fat I TOLD YOU SO at the end of the season. This coach is a disaster for the Colts.

 

[upstater1]

Expressed a desire, eh? To the media? LOL, keep telling yourself that.

 

[ICSB]

Expressed a desire, eh? To the media? LOL, keep telling yourself that.

Based on your original post you should not be laughing.

I suppose if your HC thought about the game and the outlook of the season in terms of message forum posters the Patriots would be in a lot of trouble next year. I am sure your coach is looking at one game at a time, one day at a time and also not thinking about one team in particular to target,especially a team he will not see till mid November. I also think he is doing what he can do best utilize the current talent you have on defense for this particular season.

Thats pretty much your answer to your first post.

 

[ICSB]

Go back and check the record.

Belichick brought the Browns to the playoffs.

Caldwell's accomplishment is someone in the vicinity of the next universe of Belichick's accomlishment.

I'll bring this back up with a big fat I TOLD YOU SO at the end of the season. This coach is a disaster for the Colts.

And you know this how? Please tell me. I think we in Indy would love to know ahead of time so we can well prepare this disaster who has been groomed on our team for seasons now and who is approved by Polian, Irsay, Dungy and Manning.

I suppose you honestly don't know yet considering this is his first season as an NFL head coach do you but you want to talk out of your ass?

And everyone has to start somewhere you know. I suppose the Colts could have hired Shanahan or Cowher to look better on paper though. They did not get the memo I guess.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Belichick's 3-4 was Manning's kryptonite (until that Championship game implosion).

As that Colt fan said, you obviously don't remember that embarrassing loss at Gillette in 2005. Also, the Colts came right back to Gillette in 2006 and put another beat down on the Pats. The sad truth is, nobody is scared of BB and the Patriots defense anymore. Nobody! In fact, BB schemes don't really seem to fool anybody anymore. Blame it on personnel or injuries, but too many average QB's have carved up the Pats defense since '05.

With this in mind, I think the Pats are incorporating more 4-3 for the simple reason that they are better equipped than the 3-4. I like the addition of Burgess, but I just don't see him being an OLB in a 3-4. Also, who takes the spot opposite of Mayo at ILB? In addition, Woods is the new whipping boy for many people on this board (including myself) and I don't seem doing much at the other OLB. The facts are, the Pats have the most depth at DL, so why not get them on the field? In the end, I think the Pats defense will be somewhat like the Ravens in terms of showing different fronts and not having a set "base" defense. This could actually play into the Pats advantage.