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Pats-Bengals tape breakdown [merged]


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tom curran said brady's passes sailed over wide open receivers and he didnt step up and into his throw like usual and could be the mental thing people talk about. anyone notice it ?

I didn't see the game but I did see the highlights and on the overthrow to Moss Brady definitely threw off his back foot in the face of a rush. He could have stepped into his throw on that play and gotten it off in time but he would have gotten NAILED.
 
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2nd Bengals drive

Kickoff: 4-man blocking wall – Alexander danced around two of those guys and made the stop

1st and 10: TE right, FB in I; RWR motioned to left slot – c-1 w/ 3-4, Sanders came down; blitz left – Woods taken outside by LG, Mayo comes in clean to force outlet to RB left; Guyton and Bodden came down to made stop

2nd and 3: TE motion to right, FB right; c-1 w/ Sanders down on TE; Thomas knocked off backside edge by TE; Wilfork pancaked by C and RG; Mayo met FB and filled, but Wilfork was off the LOS so much that RB got through – Sanders was free and made stop

1st and 10: TE right, FB motion RWR to weak; c-3 w/ Meriweather low, Butler high on RWR; Thomas knocked off backside edge by TE again, Guyton knocked back by RG; Warren and Wilfork held ground vs. single blocks to force cutback; Mayo sealed inside by FB – hole created BUT Benson fumbles pushing off Wilfork/C block and has to fall on ball; could have been a big run, b/c DE and OLB were sealed outside and Sanders was slow coming up to fill

2nd and 8: TE right, FB strong; c-1 look with Meriweather blitz strong – set edge on FB, allowing Thomas to go inside; Warren split the RG and RT block to nail RB in the backfield – pure muscle play, with Thomas coming in clean too behind

3rd and 9: shotgun 3 WR tight, TE right; 4-2 nickel w/ Burgess and TBC outside, Seymour and Green inside; c-4 look with CBs deep, Butler press left slot; no pressure, but QB side-armed it to TE underneath – Thomas was in short zone (Mayo zone on RWR drag) and made the shoe-string tackle to prevent FD

4th and 4: Wheatley gets puntside gunner OOB but Meriweather can’t contain on cutback – Edelman is able to avoid gunner but blockers are unorganized on turn-around and Edelman is caught from behind
 
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2nd and 10: shotgun trips right vs. nickel c-4 look (CBs way off); OL slide protect right, Taylor in empty BP left; with RCB deep, Lewis sits underneath, then avoids RCB before RLB pushes OOB just short of FDM

"BP?" Did you mean to type 'BF' for 'backfield' or is this another acronym I should recognize and will feel silly about when you explain?

Blitz protection/pickup. "Empty BP" was just a really quick way of me saying Taylor was set up for blitz protection but there was no blitzers so he released.
 
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Nathan: "I didn't see the game but I did see the highlights and on the overthrow to Moss Brady definitely threw off his back foot in the face of a rush. He could have stepped into his throw on that play and gotten it off in time but he would have gotten NAILED."

Maybe Brady is beginning to distrust his OL to give him what he needs...as he should.

This offense needs a FB, an attitude adjustment about the running game, and to stop expecting Brady to throw 500 times/season without also expecting serious, serious consequences.
 
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Blitz protection/pickup. "Empty BP" was just a really quick way of me saying Taylor was set up for blitz protection but there was no blitzers so he released.
Gotcha...10c
 
Maybe Brady is beginning to distrust his OL to give him what he needs...as he should.

This particular play was an inside rush with 2 Bengals coming straight up the middle at Brady. It was before the blindside hit so he shouldn't have been rattled yet, especially considering how good the O-line looked vs Philly.

That's what made it a little scary, because Brady clearly saw the rush, clearly knew that he could step up and make the throw correctly but was going to have to pay the price (the kind of hit we've seen him willingly take so many times) and instead stepped back and it sailed on him.
 
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Nathan: "I didn't see the game but I did see the highlights and on the overthrow to Moss Brady definitely threw off his back foot in the face of a rush. He could have stepped into his throw on that play and gotten it off in time but he would have gotten NAILED."

Maybe Brady is beginning to distrust his OL to give him what he needs...as he should.

This offense needs a FB, an attitude adjustment about the running game, and to stop expecting Brady to throw 500 times/season without also expecting serious, serious consequences.

Im beginning to agree...this O-Line really needs to improve...i dont like to see Brady getting touched like that anymore....especially rushes up the middle and big guys falling right around Brady's legs

i dont want another ended season thank you very much

and from all the analysis ive read and seen....this team doesnt think it HAS to run the ball...the O line almost stinks at run blocking...and we need that to change
 
There actually wasn't too much of a rush in Brady's face in that play...
 
There actually wasn't too much of a rush in Brady's face in that play...

Here's the link, 1:10 in.

Ok I was thinking of the Welker overthrow... The guy who stunts comes around and has the LG totally beat and looks like he's gonna put the hurt on Brady if he steps into that throw to me. If you go to NFL.com and watch the video on the homepage the Moss throw is :30 in... kind of the same deal, the LG gets beat by a spin move and has an open lane to Brady.
 
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Thanks, Box. For me, the real shame about Maroney isn't even the fans posting on message boards. What gets me is the members of the media, especially the ex-players who should know better, taking the lazy route and just blasting Maroney instead of actually looking at the plays.

We may need a sticky for an "Analysis of Maroney's runs" thread come the regular season.

The real shame about Maroney is that nobody seems to understand what he actually is to this team.

He is a guy that plays a role for us, like Taylor or even Faulk. He is not our 'go-to' guy for this offense and he never will be if we don't have a dominant run blocking OL BECAUSE our offense is structured around the quick attack passing game. Our offense simply is not built around Maroney.

He and Taylor will both finish the season with 750 yards or so. Maybe more. But this is not shaping up to be a season that Belichick goes out of his way to highlight Maroney. Maroney is a role player in a pass attack offense.

All the endless discussions about Maroney are less than meaningful. He is a role player on our team that will share snaps with Taylor.

Maybe in some alternate universe he is running free and going to pro bowls behind a stout run-first blocking OL. None of us can say for sure. I personally think he looks great in the open field but I don't think he is anything like Corey Dillon in close quarters. Dillon used to carry defenders on his back and still run through somebody to get into the endzone. Corey was a friggin animal.

What I do know is that as long as he is a patriot he will be a role player and not likely to see enough carries to sniff a pro bowl.

Hypothetical projections by fans or the media just don't address what Maroney's role is in this offense. He will get some carries but not all the carries. He will be used much more at times when the pass game is not needed i.e. when leading a game or against a really strong pass defense that is susceptible to the run. He will get less than stellar run blocking at times. The mark of our OL is very good play at times and bouts of inconsistency at times, especially in the run game.

People can talk about Maroney until they are blue in the face and at the end of the day he is a role player and BB is not trying to put Maroney in Canton or even Hawaii.

What Maroney might have achieved if the Broncos drafted him or the Steelers for instance just will not happen in our offense.

A break out season for him in this specific offense that the Pats run would be about 750 yards, with Taylor getting the same. Unless he averages 8 yards a carry or something. He just will not get the touches.

It is not fair for the media or the fans to try to compare him to a probowl running back because Maroney won't really get the chance in our system.

People want him either to fail badly or to set the world on fire. BB just wants him to do his job. At the end of the day Maroney knows who signs the paycheck.
 
I'm not going to read much into Brady rushing a couple of throws. He is probably thinking why get beat up in a pre season game. I am pretty sure if it were a regular season game he would step into the throw, and take the hit.

I also wouldn't read too much into the o-line problems. They will get it worked out. I have been a fan for over 30 years, and in their history (especially the last 10 years) the o-line doesn't seem to gell until the 3rd or 4th game of the regular season.
 
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I'm not going to read much into Brady rushing a couple of throws. He is probably thinking why get beat up in a pre season game. I am pretty sure if it were a regular season game he would step into the throw, and take the hit.

I wouldn't read too much into the o-line problems. They will get it worked out. I have been a fan for over 30 years, and in their history (especially the last 10 years) the o-line doesn't seem to gell until the 3rd or 4th game of the regular season.

That's what I thought too except he did all that talking about wanting to step up and take a hit in preseason to get the jitters out... I don't think he was talking about getting nailed in the back on a rush that he never saw, but rather exactly these kinds of situations... anyway this is what happens when we only get 10 throws a game to look at, we hyperventilate and obsess a bit.
 
2nd Patriots drive

1st and 10: 4 WR split vs. nickel c-2 press; Taylor acted like it was a misdirection play fake but Brady did not – maybe a miscommunication, but play action passes use a different numbering system than regular passes; the LDE blew by Kaczur, who tried but failed to knock the rusher behind Brady – Kaczur threw his arms up in the air but this play was on him

2nd and 17: shotgun trips right vs. nickel c-4 look, NB tight; simple middle draw play – OL splits DL left/right – Koppen needs to peel off to pick up RLB to give Taylor a chance, but RDT reads play and Koppen freezes between RDT and RLB – both end up making the stop; play could have been salvaged if Taylor could have cutback behind right side, but Mankins couldn’t contain RDT pursuit

3rd and 15: shotgun 4 WR split vs. nickel c-2 look (RLB on slot); Welker splits LB zones to occupy; Taylor releases underneath, catches in-stride, avoids LBs, but SS/RCB contain to prevent FD – would have been a FD even from 3rd and 10

4th and 4: punt block formation – single coverage on gunners; Slater beats puntside defender, but Hanson’s punt is short – PR has to come up to call fair catch; Slater tries to pull up before the PR gets to him but can’t – not as bad as it looked for Slater, he had to avoid the oncoming PR
 
This offense needs a FB, an attitude adjustment about the running game, and to stop expecting Brady to throw 500 times/season without also expecting serious, serious consequences.

I agree with you on the FB thing, I always really liked Heath Evans and didn't understand why we let him walk... guess it was a $ or a roster thing but he was always busting out an unexpected 8 yard run when we needed it most or catching a little flare in the flats. He was the perfect guy to go to when everyone was fixated on stopping all the obvious weapons.

That being said most of our damage on the ground seemed to come from draws anyway last year but you'd think after your franchise QB gets his knee blown out you'd keep a real FB on the roster to block...
 
Nathan: "I didn't see the game but I did see the highlights and on the overthrow to Moss Brady definitely threw off his back foot in the face of a rush. He could have stepped into his throw on that play and gotten it off in time but he would have gotten NAILED."

Maybe Brady is beginning to distrust his OL to give him what he needs...as he should.

This offense needs a FB, an attitude adjustment about the running game, and to stop expecting Brady to throw 500 times/season without also expecting serious, serious consequences.

If Brady hits Moss for that wide open TD, today we're talking about this offense looks just like 2007 & no one would be mentioning the OL.

Generally though, I prefer 3-wide+1TE to the 4-wide. I always felt at the end of 2007 they spread it out a little too much. Its easier to get to Brady in the 4-wide, and it doesn't always give Moss enough time to get deep. That said, it does present some really favorable mismatches, and we saw that yesterday. Brady just threw a couple bad passes. I wish they had let him go out for another series and get his rhythm. I think thats far more important than seeing O'Connel & Hoyer for one or two more series. I don't question BB often, or ever, but I think that was not the right move. Brady needs his reps before Sep 14th.
 
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That's what made it a little scary, because Brady clearly saw the rush, clearly knew that he could step up and make the throw correctly but was going to have to pay the price (the kind of hit we've seen him willingly take so many times) and instead stepped back and it sailed on him.

Preseason.
 
I don't know what happened to my thread, all those pearls of wisdom lost in cyberspace....ah me. ;)

At any rate, I've had a chance to look at the Brady sack closely with a feed provided here. IMHO it was a problem in recognition NOT a lack of talent on the OL's part. Clearly Kazcur was looking inside at the snap of the ball, and couldn't get back to Gathers in time. In essence no one blocked him and he had a free shot on Brady.

If anyone cared to notice, when Kazcur engages Gathers on the very next play he pancakes him. I don't know if Kazcur missed a call, or if someone, either Brady or Koppen, made the wrong call, but Kazcur looked confused by what happened.

Personally I think it was Brady's fault. Later after the first units night was done, they caught Kascur and Brady laughing on the sideline and later Brady gives Nick an fist bump. I think he was apologizing for making him look bad....and it DID look bad.
 
Preseason.

Exactly.

Anyone who draws conclusions from preseason football, with the exception of player evaluations in particular coach chosen situations, isn't paying attention. For ex yesterday on offense it looks like the Pats were trying to evaluate Lewis and Galloway and how they'll fit in the 4 WR sets.

Also on running the ball, it's been mentioned here and other threads that this O-line can't run block. The Pats finished 6th in rushing offense last season with 142.4 yds per game NFL Stats: by Team Category and and 13th in 2007 with 115.6 rushing per game. This team has no issue running the ball when it counts. In 2004, which is considered the Pats best running team under BB actually averaged 133.4 rushing yds per game NFL Stats: by Team Category so last season they ran for more yds.

By the way, being a top running team is overrated as far as a SB winners are concerned. Last season the "physical" running the ball SB champsion Steelers finished 23rd in the league at 105.6 rush yrd per game. Since 2001 here is where the SB championship winning team has finished in rushing yds per game: Pats - 13th, Buccaneers - 27th, Pats - 27th, Pats - 7th, Steelers - 5th, Colts - 18th, Giants - 4th and Steelers - 23rd. Winning is about balance on offense, scoring pts and clutch defense and preventing the opponents from scoring pts. All the other stuff is pointless and is overanalyzing preseason games.
 
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I agree with you on the FB thing, I always really liked Heath Evans and didn't understand why we let him walk... guess it was a $ or a roster thing but he was always busting out an unexpected 8 yard run when we needed it most or catching a little flare in the flats. He was the perfect guy to go to when everyone was fixated on stopping all the obvious weapons.

That being said most of our damage on the ground seemed to come from draws anyway last year but you'd think after your franchise QB gets his knee blown out you'd keep a real FB on the roster to block...

lorenzo o'neal was released by the raiders...
 
PFK: "At any rate, I've had a chance to look at the Brady sack closely with a feed provided here. IMHO it was a problem in recognition NOT a lack of talent on the OL's part. Clearly Kazcur was looking inside at the snap of the ball, and couldn't get back to Gathers in time. In essence no one blocked him and he had a free shot on Brady.

If anyone cared to notice, when Kazcur engages Gathers on the very next play he pancakes him. I don't know if Kazcur missed a call, or if someone, either Brady or Koppen, made the wrong call, but Kazcur looked confused by what happened.

Personally I think it was Brady's fault. Later after the first units night was done, they caught Kascur and Brady laughing on the sideline and later Brady gives Nick an fist bump. I think he was apologizing for making him look bad....and it DID look bad."

So who was supposed to block him then?
 
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