Tip of the Cap to Caserio

[tombonneau]

Yes, yes, I know it's very, very, very early, but please spare me the We-need-three-years-to-properly-evaluate-a-draft routine. Rather than post that kind of reply, instead please make a post on your evaluation and opinion of the 2006 draft (and enjoy the chirping of crickets ).

I just want to say with everyone questioning how the Pats would fare with Pioli, well, early returns say "Quite well, thank you very much."

The FO looks like they could be 4/4 in round 2 and might even have two very late round steals in Pryor and Edelman. A success by any measure.

Again, it's way to early to claim much of anything, just wanted to give some props to Caserio for what looks like a more than solid draft class.

 

[QB12]

Agreed. And was that Caserio I saw in coach's gear on the sidelines Thursday night, or one of the other young assistants?

QB12

 

[patchick]

Extra amazing when you consider that there are still 3 mid-round picks on crutches!

 

[Jimke]

This was a draft where a lot of thought went into the late round

selections. The Patriots could have both 6th round selections and

a 7th round selection make the 53 man roster.

 

[livinginthe past]

I think we really need 3 years to......

Yes, its looks like a very good draft class at this stage - the fact that these guys are even holding their own at this early stage bodes well for a future that surely includes alot of upside.

Belichick has been a good drafter in general - of course, later rounds typically struggle to make the roster of a perennial title challenger - some will see that as a failure to properly utilise those later round picks.

I don't.

 

[BigMike]

What about Floyd Reese? He has a history of great picks....

 

[DaBruinz]

Guys... Something to remember is that Pioli had a big hand in this draft for the Pats...And I can guarantee you that Pioli used a lot of the knowledge that this scouting staff developed for him to make his picks in KC..

Caserio gets some Kudos, yes, but this was still, primarily, the draft of BB and Pioli..

 

[DaBruinz]

What about Floyd Reese? He has a history of great picks....

Out of BB, Pioli, Caserio and Reese, I'd say that Reese had the least influence on who was drafted.

 

[signbabybrady]

Guys... Something to remember is that Pioli had a big hand in this draft for the Pats...And I can guarantee you that Pioli used a lot of the knowledge that this scouting staff developed for him to make his picks in KC..

Caserio gets some Kudos, yes, but this was still, primarily, the draft of BB and Pioli..

See I dont see it as primarily on Pioli because of the way the scouting process works...I give credit to the Scouts and Casserio for being able to do their jobs despite their Boss moving on.

What and when would Pioli have helped us with this draft???....he never had a chnce in the offseason to do work on our draft...All he did to help this draft was help or lead in the scouting process through the year. he likely had very little to do with who was chosen out of the large pool of talent that he and the scouts kept their eyes on through last year. I am sure he helped narrow the list and focus it through the year.

Pioli gets credit for laying the foundation and process but he IMO couldn't have had that much to do with the actual players chosen.

 

[matt9071]

See I dont see it as primarily on Pioli because of the way the scouting process works...I give credit to the Scouts and Casserio for being able to do their jobs despite their Boss moving on.

What and when would Pioli have helped us with this draft???....he never had a chnce in the offseason to do work on our draft...All he did to help this draft was help or lead in the scouting process through the year. he likely had very little to do with who was chosen out of the large pool of talent that he and the scouts kept their eyes on through last year. I am sure he helped narrow the list and focus it through the year.

Pioli gets credit for laying the foundation and process but he IMO couldn't have had that much to do with the actual players chosen.

You Make a good point.

 

[patchick]

Guys... Something to remember is that Pioli had a big hand in this draft for the Pats...And I can guarantee you that Pioli used a lot of the knowledge that this scouting staff developed for him to make his picks in KC..

Caserio gets some Kudos, yes, but this was still, primarily, the draft of BB and Pioli..

Point taken that Pioli's operation laid the groundwork with years of scouting -- but to be fair, Caserio was the head of that operation. And given that Pioli left months before the showcase bowls, combine, pro days, etc. the ultimate board and & strategy had to be mapped out by Caserio & Belichick. So I think it's fair to tip the cap significantly in Caserio's direction

 

[DaBruinz]

See I dont see it as primarily on Pioli because of the way the scouting process works...I give credit to the Scouts and Casserio for being able to do their jobs despite their Boss moving on.

What and when would Pioli have helped us with this draft???....he never had a chnce in the offseason to do work on our draft...All he did to help this draft was help or lead in the scouting process through the year. he likely had very little to do with who was chosen out of the large pool of talent that he and the scouts kept their eyes on through last year. I am sure he helped narrow the list and focus it through the year.

Pioli gets credit for laying the foundation and process but he IMO couldn't have had that much to do with the actual players chosen.

You probably don't realize how your last sentence contradicts your stance.

First, Caserio had almost nothing to do with the scouting department prior to last year. That was his first year over-seeing it as he'd just taken over from Dimitroff, who had moved on to Atlanta.

Second, Pioli was here through the entire information gathering process. And its been well documented that the Patriots have their prospects whittled down prior to even the junior declarations. Its just minor tweaking that they do to their lists.

Lastly, the Pats use the Combine, Pro-Days, and private workouts to tweak their listing..

So, while you discount the "foundation and processes" as being minor, the reality is that it is those processes and the information gathered that are a majority of the work that goes into deciding who to take. Downplaying that is just silly.

 

[maverick4]

This draft is already looking to be better than Pioli's last 4 drafts.

 

[DaBruinz]

Point taken that Pioli's operation laid the groundwork with years of scouting -- but to be fair, Caserio was the head of that operation. And given that Pioli left months before the showcase bowls, combine, pro days, etc. the ultimate board and & strategy had to be mapped out by Caserio & Belichick. So I think it's fair to tip the cap significantly in Caserio's direction

Caserio was "head" of the scouting for this one year.. Hardly long enough to put his stamp on it.. Not to mention that, according to all the times Pioli talked about the draft process, he stated that the Showcase Bowls, Combine, ProDays, etc, didn't do much to their draft boards. They only tweaked their vertical and horizontal sorts.. Also, Pioli left on January 13th.. The Senior Bowl was held on the January 24th. The East/West Shrine game was held on January 17th. Yes, the combine was in February and the Pro-Days February, March, and April.

So, I can't agree that the tip of the cap should go to Caserio. He wasn't the head of the department for that long. Pioli, who was his boss and who set up the Department with Dimitroff, had a lot more to do with it than Caserio did.

Caserio will have much more to do with the 2010 and future drafts.. Then he can get a tip of the cap should they be successful. But all the hard work was done prior to Pioli leaving.

 

[maverick4]

Caserio was "head" of the scouting for this one year.. Hardly long enough to put his stamp on it..

Why is it not enough time? Dimitroff had an immediate impact in Atlanta. GM's and coaches can make huge impacts in a year. Parcells has done it multiple times.

 

[Jimke]

Why is it not enough time? Dimitroff had an immediate impact in Atlanta. GM's and coaches can make huge impacts in a year. Parcells has done it multiple times.

Caserio, Belichick, and others made the decisions when it was time

to pick. I don't think they picked up the phone to get Pioli's input.

 

[patchick]

Caserio was "head" of the scouting for this one year.. Hardly long enough to put his stamp on it.. Not to mention that, according to all the times Pioli talked about the draft process, he stated that the Showcase Bowls, Combine, ProDays, etc, didn't do much to their draft boards. They only tweaked their vertical and horizontal sorts.. Also, Pioli left on January 13th..

By coincidence, Tom Dimitroff left on January 13th 2008...and he was named Executive of the Year by his peers, in large part for his handling of the 2008 draft with his new team. Or to put it another way, should we give BB & co. no credit for drafting Tom Brady in 2000?

I'm not questioning the essential role Pioli played in building the personnel organization that scouted and prepared for the draft. I just suspect that Caserio deserves a bigger slice of the credit (or blame) than you're giving him.

 

[maverick4]

Caserio, Belichick, and others made the decisions when it was time to pick. I don't think they picked up the phone to get Pioli's input.

Exactly. Even with the same draft list or information in front of them, the decisions aren't necessarily the same.

However, rather than try to give disproportionate credit to Pioli, I'd say that Floyd Reese also had influence/input on this year's crop.

 

[signbabybrady]

You probably don't realize how your last sentence contradicts your stance.
First, Caserio had almost nothing to do with the scouting department prior to last year. That was his first year over-seeing it as he'd just taken over from Dimitroff, who had moved on to Atlanta.

Second, Pioli was here through the entire information gathering process. And its been well documented that the Patriots have their prospects whittled down prior to even the junior declarations. Its just minor tweaking that they do to their lists.

Lastly, the Pats use the Combine, Pro-Days, and private workouts to tweak their listing..

So, while you discount the "foundation and processes" as being minor, the reality is that it is those processes and the information gathered that are a majority of the work that goes into deciding who to take. Downplaying that is just silly.

I put the last sentance in because Pioli does deserve some credit I am not arguing that.

I just think he is one man who was overseeing many and the many deserve credit more than him especially when he left before final decisions.

Notice I put the Scouts ahead of Caserio in my giving credit.

 

[DaBruinz]

Why is it not enough time? Dimitroff had an immediate impact in Atlanta. GM's and coaches can make huge impacts in a year. Parcells has done it multiple times.

Dimitroff had an "immediate impact" because he was the one buying the groceries and the one providing the information to Pioli/Belichick prior to his leaving. If anything his example supports my stance. It doesn't detract from it. Not to mention that Dimitroff was in that position for how long prior to getting the job in Atlanta?

Caserio had his position in the personnel department for a year. Prior to that he was helping as a positional coach.

Comparing Caserio becoming the Director or Player Personnel here to Parcells going into a new organization is butchering it as the GM are two totally different scenarios.

But I know why you brought it up.. Because its your typical move to try and be contrarian to myself. Per usual though, you fail.