Brady is the best according to NY Daily News

[PatsFanSince74]

I've attached a link below to Gary Myers piece in todays News. The Online version leaves out several paragraphs from the paper version, if you can pick up a copy somewhere.

The article begins: "Eli Manning is about to become the highest-paid player in NFL history, which seems a bit out of whack because he's no better than the NFL's fifth-best quarterback going into the 2009 season. But he's being welcomed as the eighth all-time member of the $100 Million Quarterback Club by virtue of that incredible four-game playoff run a year and a half ago when he outplayed Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, Brett Favre and Tom Brady as the Giants became one of the most improbable Super Bowl champions ever.
Absolutely nothing Manning did before or has done since suggests he should be the highest-paid player." (my underline)

In the paper version of the article (the online version leaves out a few paragraphs), Myers lists the top five QB's as: Brady, Peyton, Ben, Brees and then Eli, concluding that "...he's a lot closer to the next level of Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Kurt Warner and Matt Ryan than he is to Brady and his brother." (my underline again)

Amazing, consider it's coming from a New York writer who led the Spygate charge. Eli is on a very short leash now with the New York media and Myers knows that Tommy is the best.


Giants make Eli Manning highest-paid quarterback in NFL, but he's not best

 

[ScottieC]

I've attached a link below to Gary Myers piece in todays News. The Online version leaves out several paragraphs from the paper version, if you can pick up a copy somewhere.

The article begins: "Eli Manning is about to become the highest-paid player in NFL history, which seems a bit out of whack because he's no better than the NFL's fifth-best quarterback going into the 2009 season. But he's being welcomed as the eighth all-time member of the $100 Million Quarterback Club by virtue of that incredible four-game playoff run a year and a half ago when he outplayed Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, Brett Favre and Tom Brady as the Giants became one of the most improbable Super Bowl champions ever.
Absolutely nothing Manning did before or has done since suggests he should be the highest-paid player." (my underline)

In the paper version of the article (the online version leaves out a few paragraphs), Myers lists the top five QB's as: Brady, Peyton, Ben, Brees and then Eli, concluding that "...he's a lot closer to the next level of Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Kurt Warner and Matt Ryan than he is to Brady and his brother." (my underline again)

Amazing, consider it's coming from a New York writer who led the Spygate charge. Eli is on a very short leash now with the New York media and Myers knows that Tommy is the best.


Giants make Eli Manning highest-paid quarterback in NFL, but he's not best

I remember back when Myers was drumming the Spygate Story and I spoke with him about his story and his view and questioned whether he thought Bill was the Lone Gunman in that practice - He told me that he thought there was ZERO chance that Bill started the Video Taping Practice and that he was NOT the only coach doing it - However as a writer he needed to follow and write about the stories that would appeal to his readers. My point was, "if that's what you think or know, Gary - Write about that as well!" He said he thought that at some point that story would be told. I'm still waiting for it.

For what it's worth.

 

[RussFrancis]

Obviously anyone with half a brain can tell us Brady is at the top. But I just cant respect the opinion of anyone who thinks Eli Manning is the 5th best QB in the NFL. That guy's flat out an idiot. Sorry.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I remember back when Myers was drumming the Spygate Story and I spoke with him about his story and his view and questioned whether he thought Bill was the Lone Gunman in that practice - He told me that he thought there was ZERO chance that Bill started the Video Taping Practice and that he was NOT the only coach doing it - However as a writer he needed to follow and write about the stories that would appeal to his readers. My point was, "if that's what you think or know, Gary - Write about that as well!" He said he thought that at some point that story would be told. I'm still waiting for it.

For what it's worth.

Yeah, I've corresponded with but never spoken personally to Gary. He's a "grownup" in a local media family with a lot of overgrown juveniles. He wouldn't put it this way, but he has to walk a careful line and throw enough red meat to the News' readership to keep his job. That means playing to a lot of brain-dead Jets fans and also appealing to the Giants fans, who tend to be a classier group but still want to be told what they want to hear. A guy like Myers is smart enough to wait until he's close to retirement and then write a book wherein he can afford to appeal to a broader audience, beyond New York fans.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think this is all that amazing at all. Myers may hate the Patriots and can make some slanted columns, but even most of the most feverant Patriots haters acknowledge that Brady is either the best or right behind Peyton Manning in the category.

 

[Funktopus]

I think this is just another phase in the media cycle of build someone up so you can tear them down. Myers will rate Eli 5th best with a SB win so that 6 months from now when he's not performing he can rip the Sh!t out of him while secretly hoping Eli ends up in a public urinal with George Michael before the season is over.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Obviously anyone with half a brain can tell us Brady is at the top. But I just cant respect the opinion of anyone who thinks Eli Manning is the 5th best QB in the NFL. That guy's flat out an idiot. Sorry.

Fair question, but who else, besides Donovan (whom I would argue you might put there), would you put ahead of him?

Romo? Inconsistent is his middle name. Warner? Arguably, but hard to do given his age and the 9--7 regular season last year. Rivers? Needs to win a few big games. Campbell? Way too soon. Jackson? Edwards? Lossman? Give me a break. Cassel, Ryan or Flacco? I think we need to see more than one good season.

And, we do have to remember that Eli has a ring and pulled off that 2007/08 playoff run, whatever else we might think about him. The only active (still-starting) QB's to win rings this decade are Tommy, Peyton, Ben, Warner and Eli.

So, besides Tommy, Payme, Ben, Brees and Donovan, whom would you put ahead of him?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I don't think this is all that amazing at all. Myers may hate the Patriots and can make some slanted columns, but even most of the most feverant Patriots haters acknowledge that Brady is either the best or right behind Peyton Manning in the category.

"Amazing" in that he doesn't join the Peyton ball washers and reflexively put him first, as many outside New England do, based on "career stats." And amazing that he is that critical of Eli ("nothing he has done before or since..."). Amazing too that he puts Eli behind Brees. And, amazing in the context of the nonsense that Myers wrote during Spygate. So, to a Pats Fan living in NY and reading the tabloids everyday, yeah, "Amazing."

 

[Rob0729]

"Amazing" in that he doesn't join the Peyton ball washers and reflexively put him first, as many outside New England do, based on "career stats." And amazing that he is that critical of Eli ("nothing he has done before or since..."). Amazing too that he puts Eli behind Brees. And, amazing in the context of the nonsense that Myers wrote during Spygate. So, to a Pats Fan living in NY and reading the tabloids everyday, yeah, "Amazing."

He pretty pretty much lumps Brady and Peyton together based on what I saw. I don't find that all that amazing. Most people lump those two together as the best as 1a and 1b. I still don't get the significance.

I still don't see how Spygate has much to do with it. Most of the media slant even in NY was a damnation of Belichick, not Brady. There was some "Brady had the advantage because he knew what defense the other team was going to run", but that was mostly fan led, not media driven. I still don't get the significance.

I definitely don't find it amazing that he would put Eli behind Brees. Brees was a favorite for MVP of the league before he had a December swoon last year. The guy was making a run for Marino's single season yardage record. I can't see how anyone with a modicrum of football knowledge would put Eli over Brees. Brees is generally recognized as the current 3rd or 4th best QB in the league after Brady and Peyton. In fact, if Meyers listed Eli over Brees, he should have just given up journalism all together and just started his own homer yahoo Giants fan website.

Personally, I find the most amazing part of the whole thing that Meyers lists Eli in the top 5 QBs in the league. Over Rivers. Over McNabb. That is far more amazing than Meyers saying Brady is #1 or that he would put Brees over Eli.

 

[Deus Irae]

Fair question, but who else, besides Donovan (whom I would argue you might put there), would you put ahead of him?

Romo? Inconsistent is his middle name. Warner? Arguably, but hard to do given his age and the 9--7 regular season last year. Rivers? Needs to win a few big games. Campbell? Way too soon. Jackson? Edwards? Lossman? Give me a break. Cassel, Ryan or Flacco? I think we need to see more than one good season.

And, we do have to remember that Eli has a ring and pulled off that 2007/08 playoff run, whatever else we might think about him. The only active (still-starting) QB's to win rings this decade are Tommy, Peyton, Ben, Warner and Eli.

So, besides Tommy, Payme, Ben, Brees and Donovan, whom would you put ahead of him?

Brady
Manning
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Brees
McNabb
Warner
Palmer

Personally, I don't think there's any real question that all 8 of those quarterbacks are better than Manning. That makes Manning #9 before you even get into debates. I'd personally put Hasselbeck there, too, but he was injured a lot of last season, so I could see where people would debate the issue. So, that puts Manning somewhere in the mix with:

Hasselbeck
Ryan
Cutler
Pennington
Schaub
Cassel
Rodgers
Romo
Ryan

which means that Manning could be reasonably be slotted anywhere from 9-19, depending upon how someone's internal debates break down.

Edwards
Clemens/Sanchez
Flacco
Quinn/Anderson
Collins/Young
Garrard
Orton
Russell/Garcia
Campbell
Rosenfels
Stafford
Delhomme
Bucs QB
Niners QB
Bulger

That would be the list to clearly put below Manning, IMO. Yes, Eli won a Super Bowl because fortune favored him, but we're talking about a career 76.1 passer rating and a 98/74 TD/INT ratio.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, the reason he brings up Brady over Peyton is because Brady makes significantly less than Peyton. By comparing Brady to Eli makes the better argument of the disparity of salaries than comparing Eli to his brother. Based on what I saw in the actual article you link to, I don't even see how he ranks Brady over Peyton. Even the paper version you mentioned doesn't really make a strong case that he feels that Brady is better than Peyton.

Sorry, I have read/heard plenty of the Patriots hating media who blasted Belichick during the Spygate stuff toss a heap of praise on Brady and call him the best. I don't think this is a big deal. Brady is the best in the media's eyes right now because of his 2007 season. If Manning has another year like 2004, the media will shift back to him. That is how it works. I don't see anything significant about this article other than Meyers actually thinks Eli is a top 5 QB.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Brady
Manning
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Brees
McNabb
Warner
Palmer

Personally, I don't think there's any real question that all 8 of those quarterbacks are better than Manning. That makes Manning #9 before you even get into debates. I'd personally put Hasselbeck there, too, but he was injured a lot of last season, so I could see where people would debate the issue. So, that puts Manning somewhere in the mix with:

Hasselbeck
Ryan
Cutler
Pennington
Schaub
Cassel
Rodgers
Romo
Ryan

which means that Manning could be reasonably be slotted anywhere from 9-19, depending upon how someone's internal debates break down.

Edwards
Clemens/Sanchez
Flacco
Quinn/Anderson
Collins/Young
Garrard
Orton
Russell/Garcia
Campbell
Rosenfels
Stafford
Delhomme
Bucs QB
Niners QB
Bulger

That would be the list to clearly put below Manning, IMO. Yes, Eli won a Super Bowl because fortune favored him, but we're talking about a career 76.1 passer rating and a 98/74 TD/INT ratio.

Great post. I like specifics, even someone is disagreeing with me.

I really disagree with putting Palmer up there. I know that he's "challenged" by having to play for the Bungles, but the injury and last season's 0--4 as a starter argue that he's not there yet. Completely agree with McNabb. I'm ambivalent on Warner. Great playoff run, but 9--7 in the regular season with those receivers? Tough to make that argument.

As for your next level, Cassel and Ryan, as great as they may prove to be, have two full seasons between them (where's Flacco by that standard?). Cutler's played three years with a 17--20 record as a starter; let's see how he does in Chicago. Rodgers for sure hasn't proven himself. Romo is way too inconsistent, is 0--2 in the postseason and didn't get his team to the Playoffs last year (admittedly in a tuff division) with a pretty decent supporting cast. Pennington? Yeah, I might put him the mix with Eli but we've all discussed his problems out here ad nauseam and the last thing this board needs is another Chad thread. Hasselbeck? Another maybe, but let's see how he comes back this year. Shaub? He's only had a couple of seasons to show he can be an NFL starter and the jury is out.

Like it or not, 76.1 Pass Rating or not, 74 INT's or not, Eli pulled that run off in 07/08, led that drive (whatever role "luck" played) and got his team back to the playoffs in a very tough division last year.

Thanks.

 

[tobias funke]

IMO you're an elite quarterback when you show you can get it done no matter who your supporting cast is. What happened to Eli after Plaxico shot himself?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

He pretty pretty much lumps Brady and Peyton together based on what I saw. I don't find that all that amazing. Most people lump those two together as the best as 1a and 1b. I still don't get the significance.

I still don't see how Spygate has much to do with it. Most of the media slant even in NY was a damnation of Belichick, not Brady. There was some "Brady had the advantage because he knew what defense the other team was going to run", but that was mostly fan led, not media driven. I still don't get the significance.

I definitely don't find it amazing that he would put Eli behind Brees. Brees was a favorite for MVP of the league before he had a December swoon last year. The guy was making a run for Marino's single season yardage record. I can't see how anyone with a modicrum of football knowledge would put Eli over Brees. Brees is generally recognized as the current 3rd or 4th best QB in the league after Brady and Peyton. In fact, if Meyers listed Eli over Brees, he should have just given up journalism all together and just started his own homer yahoo Giants fan website.

Personally, I find the most amazing part of the whole thing that Meyers lists Eli in the top 5 QBs in the league. Over Rivers. Over McNabb. That is far more amazing than Meyers saying Brady is #1 or that he would put Brees over Eli.

On Brees, I certainly agree that Brees belongs up there right after Tommy, Peyton and Ben (would put him ahead of Ben except for that annoying matter of his two rings), but you make the point yourself that Giants fans would make in reply: great QB's don't have "December swoons." I think he belongs above Eli, but saying so in a NY paper today is another matter. That's all I was implying.

I agree re McNabb and said so several posts ago, but disagree re Rivers; no matter how much we might not like it, Eli delivered in 07/08 when it counted. Rivers has yet to do so.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

BTW, the reason he brings up Brady over Peyton is because Brady makes significantly less than Peyton. By comparing Brady to Eli makes the better argument of the disparity of salaries than comparing Eli to his brother. Based on what I saw in the actual article you link to, I don't even see how he ranks Brady over Peyton. Even the paper version you mentioned doesn't really make a strong case that he feels that Brady is better than Peyton.

Sorry, I have read/heard plenty of the Patriots hating media who blasted Belichick during the Spygate stuff toss a heap of praise on Brady and call him the best. I don't think this is a big deal. Brady is the best in the media's eyes right now because of his 2007 season. If Manning has another year like 2004, the media will shift back to him. That is how it works. I don't see anything significant about this article other than Meyers actually thinks Eli is a top 5 QB.

My Spygate point referred to his generic Patriots bashing and the questioning of the legitimacy of the championships, which encompassed Brady while it was not necessarily aimed at him.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

IMO you're an elite quarterback when you show you can get it done no matter who your supporting cast is. What happened to Eli after Plaxico shot himself?

He didn't put it that way, but that's more or less what Myers is asking I think.

 

[RussFrancis]

Fair question, but who else, besides Donovan (whom I would argue you might put there), would you put ahead of him?

Romo? Inconsistent is his middle name. Warner? Arguably, but hard to do given his age and the 9--7 regular season last year. Rivers? Needs to win a few big games. Campbell? Way too soon. Jackson? Edwards? Lossman? Give me a break. Cassel, Ryan or Flacco? I think we need to see more than one good season.

And, we do have to remember that Eli has a ring and pulled off that 2007/08 playoff run, whatever else we might think about him. The only active (still-starting) QB's to win rings this decade are Tommy, Peyton, Ben, Warner and Eli.

So, besides Tommy, Payme, Ben, Brees and Donovan, whom would you put ahead of him?

He's had seasons of 17, 18 and 20 picks, and his career passing % is less than 56. That's garbage. Its tough to even defend that. Sure, he had the half dozen game run on his way to that lucky Superbowl win. Im not propping him up that high because of one lucky win, and more specifically, one lucky toss. You take that one single ball on the side of the helmet toss out of the equation, and Eli's not even in anyone's top 10, let alone top 5.

As for the others, Id absolutely take Phil Rivers over him. Guy led his team to 14 wins a couple of years ago, and completely crushed it last year. Had playoff wins in back to back seasons. Palmer ahead of Eli is a no-brainer. Im not penalizing him because he's loyal to the Bengals to a fault. Put him in NY with that D and that line and more importantly a real coach and he's top 5 all day. Give me Ryan before Eli, and Im not calling Ryan top 5. I just know what he'll eventually do. I'd also run with Cutler and his baggage, Warner (a lock HOFer btw at this point), and even Hasselbeck all day over Eli. I dont care how old Warner is, the man has always been an unbelievable QB. Had a problem with his fingers for a few years, but besides that, he's probably gonna be remembered as the 3rd best QB of this era(maybe 4th, we'll see with Ben). I could make a case for Aaron Rodgers, though obviously its a little soon there. Romo is every bit as good as Eli, that whole organization has just been one huge distraction the past couple of years. Who else? Pennington? He's got a weak arm, but there a few better field generals.

Eli's been the beneficiary of one of the league's most dominant Olines, an incredibly punishing running game with Jacobs, and some of the BIGGEST WRs in the league. Toomer was 6'3, Plax 6'6, his TE 6'7, and Shockey was 6'5 but easily one of the more dominant TEs whenever he was playing. We'll see how he handles the heat of that contract with a serious change in receivers. Ive got nothing really against the guy, but imo, anyone thinking Eli's a top 5 QB is either from NY, out of their mind, or both.

 

[Deus Irae]

Great post. I like specifics, even someone is disagreeing with me.

I really disagree with putting Palmer up there. I know that he's "challenged" by having to play for the Bungles, but the injury and last season's 0--4 as a starter argue that he's not there yet. Completely agree with McNabb. I'm ambivalent on Warner. Great playoff run, but 9--7 in the regular season with those receivers? Tough to make that argument.

It's about how good the QB is, not the team's record. Both Palmer and Warner are light years ahead of Eli. Palmer missed most of last year, so I'll focus on Arizona and Warner:

Last year, the Cardinals were #3 in the NFL in scoring. The defense was #28. That's why that team went 9-7. Warner completed 67.1% of his passes (2nd only to Pennington's 67.4% and 24th best in NFL history), had a 96.9 passer rating and a 30/14 TD/INT ratio. For his career, including the 'down' years, he's got a 93.8 passer rating and a 182/114 TD/INT ratio.

Meanwhile, last year was Manning's best statistical season. He had a 21/10 TD/INT ratio and a passer rating of 86.4. It was the first time in his career that his passer rating had been above 77.

As for your next level, Cassel and Ryan, as great as they may prove to be, have two full seasons between them (where's Flacco by that standard?). Cutler's played three years with a 17--20 record as a starter; let's see how he does in Chicago. Rodgers for sure hasn't proven himself. Romo is way too inconsistent, is 0--2 in the postseason and didn't get his team to the Playoffs last year (admittedly in a tuff division) with a pretty decent supporting cast. Pennington? Yeah, I might put him the mix with Eli but we've all discussed his problems out here ad nauseam and the last thing this board needs is another Chad thread. Hasselbeck? Another maybe, but let's see how he comes back this year. Shaub? He's only had a couple of seasons to show he can be an NFL starter and the jury is out.

Flacco's not there because he doesn't deserve to be in my opinion. Playing the role of Trent Dilfer is different than playing the role of Tom Brady. The NFL is fluid, and his future is there for him, just as it is for Sanchez/Stafford/Freeman/etc... but he's got far more to prove than do either Ryan or Cassel.

Or, to put it another way, if Ryan and Cassel have seasons that are similar to last season, people will be pimping the hell out of them. If Flacco repeats his rookie season, people will be ignoring him.

As for the rest, you're just debating internally, which I mentioned would be expected. It's the only way to do it once you get to a somewhat even point.

Like it or not, 76.1 Pass Rating or not, 74 INT's or not, Eli pulled that run off in 07/08, led that drive (whatever role "luck" played) and got his team back to the playoffs in a very tough division last year.

Thanks.

Dilfer won a Super Bowl. It doesn't mean that he was a great QB. Eli Manning is much more like Dilfer than he is like Brady.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

He's had seasons of 17, 18 and 20 picks, and his career passing % is less than 56. That's garbage. Its tough to even defend that. Sure, he had the half dozen game run on his way to that lucky Superbowl win. Im not propping him up that high because of one lucky win, and more specifically, one lucky toss. You take that one single ball on the side of the helmet toss out of the equation, and Eli's not even in anyone's top 10, let alone top 5.

As for the others, Id absolutely take Phil Rivers over him. Guy led his team to 14 wins a couple of years ago, and completely crushed it last year. Had playoff wins in back to back seasons. Palmer ahead of Eli is a no-brainer. Im not penalizing him because he's loyal to the Bengals to a fault. Put him in NY with that D and that line and more importantly a real coach and he's top 5 all day. Give me Ryan before Eli, and Im not calling Ryan top 5. I just know what he'll eventually do. I'd also run with Cutler and his baggage, Warner (a lock HOFer btw at this point), and even Hasselbeck all day over Eli. I dont care how old Warner is, the man has always been an unbelievable QB. Had a problem with his fingers for a few years, but besides that, he's probably gonna be remembered as the 3rd best QB of this era(maybe 4th, we'll see with Ben). I could make a case for Aaron Rodgers, though obviously its a little soon there. Romo is every bit as good as Eli, that whole organization has just been one huge distraction the past couple of years. Who else? Pennington? He's got a weak arm, but there a few better field generals.

Eli's been the beneficiary of one of the league's most dominant Olines, an incredibly punishing running game with Jacobs, and some of the BIGGEST WRs in the league. Toomer was 6'3, Plax 6'6, his TE 6'7, and Shockey was 6'5 but easily one of the more dominant TEs whenever he was playing. We'll see how he handles the heat of that contract with a serious change in receivers. Ive got nothing really against the guy, but imo, anyone thinking Eli's a top 5 QB is either from NY, out of their mind, or both.

thanks. good reply.

I disagree re Rivers. he did take an 8--8 team to the playoffs last year, but he's still just 3--3 in the post season; to me that qualifies as not delivering, given some good weapons on both sides of the ball on that team, even if we give him a Marty-ball discount for his first seasons. Re Palmer: I just don't see how you can do that, even if we allow a Bungles discount; let's see how he comes back this year. On Ryan, I just can't put a one year QB ahead of a SB winner. Cutler has to do something (anything) in the post season and get his regular season starting record above .500 for me to move him up. But, he has a great opportunity now in Chicago, I'll grant you that (if he can deal with the weather in Chicago and elsewhere in the division).

On Hasselbeck, I'd probably agree with moving him up. Warner? You can make that argument reasonably IMO, but his age and last season's 9--7 with those weapons makes me hesitate. (I disagree that he's a lock for the HOF. That will be quite a debate when the time comes.)

 

[PatsFanSince74]

It's about how good the QB is, not the team's record. Both Palmer and Warner are light years ahead of Eli. Palmer missed most of last year, so I'll focus on Arizona and Warner:

Last year, the Cardinals were #3 in the NFL in scoring. The defense was #28. That's why that team went 9-7. Warner completed 67.1% of his passes (2nd only to Pennington's 67.4% and 24th best in NFL history), had a 96.9 passer rating and a 30/14 TD/INT ratio. For his career, including the 'down' years, he's got a 93.8 passer rating and a 182/114 TD/INT ratio.

Meanwhile, last year was Manning's best statistical season. He had a 21/10 TD/INT ratio and a passer rating of 86.4. It was the first time in his career that his passer rating had been above 77.




Flacco's not there because he doesn't deserve to be in my opinion. Playing the role of Trent Dilfer is different than playing the role of Tom Brady. The NFL is fluid, and his future is there for him, just as it is for Sanchez/Stafford/Freeman/etc... but he's got far more to prove than do either Ryan or Cassel.

Or, to put it another way, if Ryan and Cassel have seasons that are similar to last season, people will be pimping the hell out of them. If Flacco repeats his rookie season, people will be ignoring him.

As for the rest, you're just debating internally, which I mentioned would be expected. It's the only way to do it once you get to a somewhat even point.



Dilfer won a Super Bowl. It doesn't mean that he was a great QB. Eli Manning is much more like Dilfer than he is like Brady.

Man, I gotta get back to work, but here goes. thanks again.

On Warner, the QB individual performance vs. team performance argument is as old as the hills. We're not gonna resolve it here. (I'm not saying that Warner isn't one of the great QB's of his generation, BTW, just talking about this list at this point in this season).

On Ryan and Cassel, I think they are both destined for great NFL careers and maybe their own rings. Let's just give them another year or so to work their way up the list.

On Flacco, I never put him there. Just asked.

On Dilfer. He is the QED of mediocre QB's who won a SB. He did, however, have six more seasons to show it wasn't a fluke and couldn't. My own view is that you're right in putting Manning closer to Dilfer than Tommy. In his own "six more seasons" we'll know one way or the other.