There is NO pre-tribulation "rapture"

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Tim LaHaye, John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler, and other pre-tribulation rapture bible scholar "elites" have made you think otherwise...but let's look at the scriptures...

The pre-trib "scholars" mentioned above try to "prove" the rapture with this passage...

2nd Thessalonians 4:15-18(The Coming of the Lord)

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

However...

Revelation 20(talking about right before the 1000 years)

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:11-13(The Judgement at the Great White Throne)

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

These passages ALL but disprove that 2nd The 4:15-18 is talking about "pre-trib rapture" - the PART of the FIRST resurrection is the dead in Christ that comes BEFORE the 1000 Christ-lead 1000 years. The so-called second resurrection will be those in Hell who will be casted into the Lake of Fire after their Judgement at the Great White Throne 1000 years LATER.

So WHEN specifically before the 1000 year reign and the end of the tribulation when the dead in Christ and the alive remaining get "raptured"?

Revelation 7:13-14(White-Robed Multitude)

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

And when is the "great tribulation"?

Matthew 24:15-22

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The abomination of the desolation is the 1/2 way point when the Antichrist breaks his 7 year peace covenant, halts all daily sacrifice allowed to the Jews, and sets up the abomination of the desolation on the Temple. So obviously, the great tribulation is sometime AFTER the 1/2 way point.

So having RE-EVALUATING 2nd The 4:15-18, this so-called "rapture" happens at Jesus' SECOND COMING - the dead in Christ rise first, and the alive remaining will be caught up with them in the clouds.

BTW - believe it or not, the entire end times will last ONLY 1335 days...

Daniel 12:11-12

11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Perhaps this "great tribulation" is only 45 days? 1335(Jesus' 2nd Coming) - 1290(AC breaks covenant and sets up the abomination that makes desolate) = 45.

 

[Fogbuster]

A great tribulation *is* coming. The world is going to dramatically change. Those who live for the sake of others will rise up, while those who live only for their own selfish desires will sink down.

Time to get our own houses in order, our own lives in order.

The universe does not abide evil and will spit it out when it's had enough.


//

 

[godef]

A great tribulation *is* coming. The world is going to dramatically change. Those who live for the sake of others will rise up, while those who live only for their own selfish desires will sink down.

Time to get our own houses in order, our own lives in order.

The universe does not abide evil and will spit it out when it's had enough.


//

Ooh, I better go get my lottery ticket!

 

[Fogbuster]

Ooh, I better go get my lottery ticket!

Why?? That's the *least* of your problems.


//

 

[wistahpatsfan]

A great tribulation *is* coming. The world is going to dramatically change. Those who live for the sake of others will rise up, while those who live only for their own selfish desires will sink down.

Time to get our own houses in order, our own lives in order.

The universe does not abide evil and will spit it out when it's had enough.


//

I got my sh!t in order. I'm ready!BRING IT ON!

 

[Fogbuster]

I got my sh!t in order. I'm ready!BRING IT ON!

No need to shout!! It's coming!

(Might want to be careful what you wish for, though. )


//

 

[wistahpatsfan]

No need to shout!! It's coming!

(Might want to be careful what you wish for, though. )


//

Why? It's either coming or it isn't. Which is it?....

 

[Fogbuster]

Why? It's either coming or it isn't. Which is it?....

On the way. Signed, sealed, and delivered. COD, though. You got enough???


//

 

[wistahpatsfan]

On the way. Signed, sealed, and delivered. COD, though. You got enough???


//

All set!
How bout you?

 

[Fogbuster]

All set!

Really??!!

How bout you?

Working on it. Still got a few loose ends to tie up. Thanks for asking.


//

 

[reflexblue]

No where i the bible does it actually talk about a "Rapture" that was someones interpritaiton which started in the mid eighteen hundreds

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

No where i the bible does it actually talk about a "Rapture" that was someones interpritaiton which started in the mid eighteen hundreds

But somehow, even fundamentalists got hooked, lined, and sinkered by this doctrine. From what I understand, the Vatican has been perverting scripture since the 1300s, and one of the things they made up was this "rapture".

Here's another example completely debunking it...

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (New King James Version)

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Now compare this to...

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)

The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The pre-tribbers pretty much use that 1st Corinthians passage above to prove their pre-trib rapture points, however - they FORGET to see the word LAST(in terms of the last trumpet being blown).

Also - from what I noticed with the pre-trib crowd, they have this mentality that we have to do everything to support, even blindly follow Israel at all costs, b/c supposedly b/c the church will be gone, God will be focusing their attention on them more than anything else, so we have to make sure their land is kept TO them and NOT shared.(and they end up using alot of OT passages to prove their points)

I mean the Israel government has been VERY corrupt(from what I heard too, the US has let their officials to run surveillance on OUR soil since 9/11) - but en yet, every time you hear a John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, Pat Robertson, et al telecast, they're just yelling at you to support Israel b/c they can do nothing wrong. Israel and the Jewish people are God's chosen people, but people don't realize that b/c of this, God holds them to HIGHER STANDARDS. Jesus and the Apostles just fervently witnessed the gospel to them, and even scolded them when they didn't want to listen.

 

[Wildo7]

Is it here yet?

 

[godef]

Is it here yet?

No, it's already over, and it actually lasted for 8 years.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Tim LaHaye, John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler, and other pre-tribulation rapture bible scholar "elites" have made you think otherwise...but let's look at the scriptures...

The pre-trib "scholars" mentioned above try to "prove" the rapture with this passage...

2nd Thessalonians 4:15-18(The Coming of the Lord)


However...

Revelation 20(talking about right before the 1000 years)


Revelation 20:11-13(The Judgement at the Great White Throne)


These passages ALL but disprove that 2nd The 4:15-18 is talking about "pre-trib rapture" - the PART of the FIRST resurrection is the dead in Christ that comes BEFORE the 1000 Christ-lead 1000 years. The so-called second resurrection will be those in Hell who will be casted into the Lake of Fire after their Judgement at the Great White Throne 1000 years LATER.

So WHEN specifically before the 1000 year reign and the end of the tribulation when the dead in Christ and the alive remaining get "raptured"?

Revelation 7:13-14(White-Robed Multitude)


And when is the "great tribulation"?

Matthew 24:15-22


The abomination of the desolation is the 1/2 way point when the Antichrist breaks his 7 year peace covenant, halts all daily sacrifice allowed to the Jews, and sets up the abomination of the desolation on the Temple. So obviously, the great tribulation is sometime AFTER the 1/2 way point.

So having RE-EVALUATING 2nd The 4:15-18, this so-called "rapture" happens at Jesus' SECOND COMING - the dead in Christ rise first, and the alive remaining will be caught up with them in the clouds.

BTW - believe it or not, the entire end times will last ONLY 1335 days...

Daniel 12:11-12


Perhaps this "great tribulation" is only 45 days? 1335(Jesus' 2nd Coming) - 1290(AC breaks covenant and sets up the abomination that makes desolate) = 45.

People who think that there is a pre-wrath rapture believe something called organized religion.

Bravo on the good post dude!

+1!

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Is it here yet?

The beginning of the end I think has started on the day of 9-11 actually.

Just my opin.

There were other days that were very bad as well...

 

[PatsFanInVa]

So this isn't about the Blondie song?

Screw it I'm outta here.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

People who think that there is a pre-wrath rapture believe something called organized religion.

Bravo on the good post dude!

+1!

What the pre-trib crowd, as well as most others, don't realize that it's not just our government et al being polluted, but our churches as well have become polluted with false men-made doctrines(i.e. prosperty, once saved always saved, ignoring fire and brimstone/end times prophecies, etc), putting men above ************(i.e. alot of churches blindly following Bush/Cheney, despite all their globalist agendas that's brought us a big step closer to a One World Government), and, of course, all those 501c3 churches that have been put under government control, pretty much(and they'll likely be part of this Clergy Response Team when a crisis breaks out, and Martial Law is declared).

Didn't Jesus and the Apostles stress how, "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump"? It happened alot in the Old Testemant passages, in particular - when temples were bringing in false idols, doctrines, et al, that was when God's wrath was brought down on them. Also - all of the OT/NT saints went through alot of tribulations and persecutions(i.e. Peter was martyred, Moses was in the wilderness for 40 years, etc).

And now these people think they can just sit back, wait for that next flight to paradise, so they can go ahead and shirk their responsibilities? They're going to be in for a big surprise.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

The beginning of the end I think has started on the day of 9-11 actually.

Just my opin.

There were other days that were very bad as well...

Yep - as much as I hate to say it, 9/11 was the catalyst to all of these globalist agendas being implemented(i.e. wiping out the ME as much as possible to monopolize their oil, the Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping by our government, wanting to track people more closely ala this RFID chip buzz we're hearing, etc) - if anything, it brought us a big step closer to getting this One World Government implemented.

BTW - the likes of John Hagee and Pat Robertson are just SCREAMING for that 3rd Temple to get built in Israel.