Trade Deadline Topic

[WhiskeyBreath]

Figured we could have one big thread for all the rumors for the fast approaching deadline. It's always a hectic few days and full of crazy rumors. I love the trade deadline.

Sox just dealt Kotsay for Brian Anderson. Pretty irrelevant deal but at least we get something for the guy we just DFA.

Yahoo's Gordon Edes reports that the Red Sox offered Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden and Ryan Westmoreland to the Blue Jays for Halladay.

That's quite a haul for Toronto but I would do it.

 

[efin98]

Figured we could have one big thread for all the rumors for the fast approaching deadline. It's always a hectic few days and full of crazy rumors. I love the trade deadline.

Sox just dealt Kotsay for Brian Anderson. Pretty irrelevant deal but at least we get something for the guy we just DFA.

That's two guys brought in for two DFAs in just over a week...the Lugo trade brought outfielder Chris Duncan last weekend.

They also traded minor leaguers Argenis Diaz and Hunter Strickland for Adam LaRoche.

Yahoo's Gordon Edes reports that the Red Sox offered Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden and Ryan Westmoreland to the Blue Jays for Halladay.

That's quite a haul for Toronto but I would do it.

I think it's a fair deal for the Red Sox, I'm not so sure it was enough for Toronto- their star pitcher for a guy who is trying to get back into the big leagues, a guy who is maybe a year or two away from being a consistent starter, and a slugger who won't see the big leagues for about two or three seasons...I can see why it went nowhere.

I'd like to get Halladay and sign him long term, but the cost might not be worth it when they could wait out his current contract and get him for a higher price but without the loss of prospects.

 

[WhiskeyBreath]

The Jays haven't rejected that deal. It was jus offered. I'm sure that won't be the final package anyway. Maybe a 3 team deal.

 

[Synovia]

I think it's a fair deal for the Red Sox, I'm not so sure it was enough for Toronto- their star pitcher for a guy who is trying to get back into the big leagues, a guy who is maybe a year or two away from being a consistent starter, and a slugger who won't see the big leagu.

We're talking a guy who is a step away from being a #1, a guy who is a step away from being a #3, both major league ready, cost controlled for 6 years. Thats 40% of your rotation for the next 6 year, plus a guy whose upside is essentially Yaz.

 

[Synovia]

I'd like to get Halladay and sign him long term

Thats not an option though. He intends to be an FA in 18 months.

 

[efin98]

We're talking a guy who is a step away from being a #1, a guy who is a step away from being a #3, both major league ready, cost controlled for 6 years. Thats 40% of your rotation for the next 6 year, plus a guy whose upside is essentially Yaz.

that guy who is a step away from being a #1 also had a terrible year in the majors last year, and about the only way he is a #1 is if he is playing for a perenial loser like the Orioles or Royals. Sorry but I don't see him as ever being that high for anyone, would be at best to me a decent #3 starter with solid couple of years ahead before the bottom falls out.

I don't see it as coming close to what they will be giving up in Halladay...

 

[efin98]

Thats not an option though. He intends to be an FA in 18 months.

See later on in the post...I made the point of waiting on him and giving up only money in the free agent market to get him.

 

[Double G]

See later on in the post...I made the point of waiting on him and giving up only money in the free agent market to get him.

You want to wait a year and a half when the guy is 34 and has more miles on his arm and then shell out a raftload of dough to sign him on the back 9 of his career?

And not to mention Beckett will be a free agent at that time too, so you'll need to spend on him or else he'll walk.

No thanks, either sack up, make the trade now or forget it.

This is what your minor league system is for; to build a up talent that you can trade away for a proven star.

Make the deal and the WS is ours.

Beckett, Lester, Halladay=WS title #3 this decade.

Make it happen Theo.

 

[scout]

You want to wait a year and a half when the guy is 34 and has more miles on his arm and then shell out a raftload of dough to sign him on the back 9 of his career?

And not to mention Beckett will be a free agent at that time too, so you'll need to spend on him or else he'll walk.

No thanks, either sack up, make the trade now or forget it.

This is what your minor league system is for; to build a up talent that you can trade away for a proven star.

Make the deal and the WS is ours.

Beckett, Lester, Halladay=WS title #3 this decade

I'm not all that enthused about the proposed trade. I think Clay is the real deal and could be potent in the long run. Of course, I was hesitant about the Celtics trade for Garnett........ Then again, remember when lots of people here were humping Santana? Today, I wouldn't trade Lester for Santana straight up, let alone the group of players offered.
I guess it's a pretty sure W.C. vs years of potentially dominant rotation which could fetch a number of WC'ships.

 

[efin98]

You want to wait a year and a half when the guy is 34 and has more miles on his arm and then shell out a raftload of dough to sign him on the back 9 of his career?

And not to mention Beckett will be a free agent at that time too, so you'll need to spend on him or else he'll walk.

No thanks, either sack up, make the trade now or forget it.

This is what your minor league system is for; to build a up talent that you can trade away for a proven star.

Make the deal and the WS is ours.

Beckett, Lester, Halladay=WS title #3 this decade.

Make it happen Theo.

Congratulations, you have turned the Red Sox into the Yankees of the 90s. Strip the minors of talent and trade every top prospect for the flavor of the moment...

 

[WhiskeyBreath]

Congratulations, you have turned the Red Sox into the Yankees of the 90s. Strip the minors of talent and trade every top prospect for the flavor of the moment...

Halladay is the flavor of the moment? The guy is one of the best.

 

[efin98]

Halladay is the flavor of the moment? The guy is one of the best.

He is this trade deadline and will be this upcoming off season and next deadline if he isn't traded this year...

But still why trade away their top prospects when they can wait and get him? He is still in his prime and will be in 2011-2014 or so.

 

[Synovia]

that guy who is a step away from being a #1 also had a terrible year in the majors last year, and about the only way he is a #1 is if he is playing for a perenial loser like the Orioles or Royals. Sorry but I don't see him as ever being that high for anyone, would be at best to me a decent #3 starter with solid couple of years ahead before the bottom falls out.

I don't see it as coming close to what they will be giving up in Halladay...

You should take a look at Halladay's first couple years in the majors. You know, before they sent him back down to the minors.

 

[WhiskeyBreath]

He is this trade deadline and will be this upcoming off season and next deadline if he isn't traded this year...

But still why trade away their top prospects when they can wait and get him? He is still in his prime and will be in 2011-2014 or so.

I just have a problem using that phrase with a guy like Halladay. He's been good for a long time and will continue to be.

You give up prospects now because it makes you the World Series favorites for the next 2 seasons. Beckett-Lester-Halladay would be unreal.

If you look at the rotation right now after the top 2 its pretty scary. Penny is decent for what you expect out of him but Wake is hurt and sucks in the playoffs, Smoltz has been awful and Dice K might not do anything the rest of the season.

 

[Synovia]

I just have a problem using that phrase with a guy like Halladay. He's been good for a long time and will continue to be.

You give up prospects now because it makes you the World Series favorites for the next 2 seasons. Beckett-Lester-Halladay would be unreal.

If you look at the rotation right now after the top 2 its pretty scary. Penny is decent for what you expect out of him but Wake is hurt and sucks in the playoffs, Smoltz has been awful and Dice K might not do anything the rest of the season.

And its still a better rotation than 2007.

 

[efin98]

I just have a problem using that phrase with a guy like Halladay. He's been good for a long time and will continue to be.

You give up prospects now because it makes you the World Series favorites for the next 2 seasons. Beckett-Lester-Halladay would be unreal.

If you look at the rotation right now after the top 2 its pretty scary. Penny is decent for what you expect out of him but Wake is hurt and sucks in the playoffs, Smoltz has been awful and Dice K might not do anything the rest of the season.

The way I am looking at it is win now...but at the cost of the future. Sure they win two World Series but they may end up causing problems that they will have to trade away prospects at other positions to compensate strapping them for a few years while they restock the shelves. I don't want them going down that road, I have been against that kind of trade for years and I'm willing to wait to win the World Series so long as the team keeps their farm intact and replacing the aging and costly veterans.

 

[WhiskeyBreath]

And its still a better rotation than 2007.

I disagree.

2007 Playoffs- Beckett-DiceK-Lester-Schilling

2009 Playoffs? - Beckett-Lester-Wake(if healthy)-Penny

Dice K had a very good 07 even though he was frustrating as hell to watch. Obviously Lester is a much better pitcher than 07 but it's not enough to call this seasons rotation better.

 

[WhiskeyBreath]

The way I am looking at it is win now...but at the cost of the future. Sure they win two World Series but they may end up causing problems that they will have to trade away prospects at other positions to compensate strapping them for a few years while they restock the shelves. I don't want them going down that road, I have been against that kind of trade for years and I'm willing to wait to win the World Series so long as the team keeps their farm intact and replacing the aging and costly veterans.

The future isn't being mortgaged if they deal prospects. They are constantly retooling it with great prospects year in and year out.

Just last year they drafted Kelly and he's already considered one of the best prospects in the entire league. Look at their farm and you will notice it's one of the best in the entire league even after they make a deal like this.

 

[efin98]

The future isn't being mortgaged if they deal prospects. They are constantly retooling it with great prospects year in and year out.

Just last year they drafted Kelly and he's already considered one of the best prospects in the entire league. Look at their farm and you will notice it's one of the best in the entire league even after they make a deal like this.

I don't see it as a real gain, the here and now should not set back the team two years from now or more especially when they are thin at the position already.

If the need for starting pitching is that bad they can find someone out there who has a decent pitcher who won't cost them two of their top pitchers who are ready for the majors. A solid #3 or #4 pitcher in exchange for one of them at most and a player at a well stocked position like outfield would be fine with me- but not the Halladay trade's scenario.

 

[Synovia]

I disagree.

2007 Playoffs- Beckett-DiceK-Lester-Schilling

2009 Playoffs? - Beckett-Lester-Wake(if healthy)-Penny

Dice K had a very good 07 even though he was frustrating as hell to watch. Obviously Lester is a much better pitcher than 07 but it's not enough to call this seasons rotation better.

2007 ERAs

Beckett: 3.27
Schilling:3.87
Dice: 4.40
Lester: 4.57

2009 ERAs
Beckett: 3.44
Lester: 3.79
Buckolz: 3.72
Penny:4.71 /Wake: 4.31/Masterson 4.63

Our 3rd starter this year, and possible our 4th are better than the 3rd starter in 07.