Chung is in Foxborough

[signbabybrady]

No, the precedent is for the draft position (which based on neighboring contracts rates approximately $97,000 in signing bonus money - close enough to $100k for messageboard work). The player and his agent are doing what's best for the kid, if NE wants a true Training Camp competition for LS, then they need to sign him, if they are content to pinch a few pennies and cede the job to Hodel, then the kid is between a rock and a hard place. If NE doesn't really want to spend the full $97k, then offer the kid a two or three year contract, if they think he's truly competitive for the job, then don't be penny wise and dollar foolish.

I just dont see how a long snappers signing bonus should compare to position players drafted at a similar number.

 

[Pats726]

I just dont see how a long snappers signing bonus should compare to position players drafted at a similar number.

I am also curious to know about kickers and punters drafted and how their bonuses are?? I am not sure which side I come down on with this..the kid wants his money..BUT..he seems to wish for it without earning it...so to speak.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I just dont see how a long snappers signing bonus should compare to position players drafted at a similar number.

If a longsnapper is less valuable to the team, then drafting him was indeed a wasted pick. Since he was drafted, and I presume the intent was to improve the camp competition and ultimately the overall team, he is of equivalent importance to any other player who might have been drafted then. Pay him and get him in camp.

 

[Jimke]

No, the precedent is for the draft position (which based on neighboring contracts rates approximately $97,000 in signing bonus money - close enough to $100k for messageboard work). The player and his agent are doing what's best for the kid, if NE wants a true Training Camp competition for LS, then they need to sign him, if they are content to pinch a few pennies and cede the job to Hodel, then the kid is between a rock and a hard place. If NE doesn't really want to spend the full $97k, then offer the kid a two or three year contract, if they think he's truly competitive for the job, then don't be penny wise and dollar foolish.

You're correct that the Patriots could offer a shorter contract with less
bonus money. A three year contract with a $73,000 bonus would probably
be acceptable to the agent. The sticking point with Ingram is the demand by
the Patriots that part of the bonus money be deferred until 2010. Who
knows if Ingram will be on the team in 2010 to collect the money. The
only money late round draft choices are certain to receive from a team
is their bonus money which is paid up front.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I am also curious to know about kickers and punters drafted and how their bonuses are?? I am not sure which side I come down on with this..the kid wants his money..BUT..he seems to wish for it without earning it...so to speak.

"Without earning it Stan?" He's no different than Tom Brady in 2000, he was drafted because he worked hard enough and performed well enough in college to earn a team's interest. The rules of the hiring process negotiated by the NFLPA says you provide a little ernest money up front, that amount is currently $97k for a four year contract, you negotiate from that starting point. Let's not be unfair to a kid who has worked very hard and "earned" NE's interest.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Tangent...

It's going to take me a long time to stop putting a "Eugene" in front of "Chung" in my mind each time I see just his last name in a thread title.

Regards,
Chris

 

[signbabybrady]

If a longsnapper is less valuable to the team, then drafting him was indeed a wasted pick. Since he was drafted, and I presume the intent was to improve the camp competition and ultimately the overall team, he is of equivalent importance to any other player who might have been drafted then. Pay him and get him in camp.

That makes sense but it is still hard for me to agree that a long snapper deserves the same as a RB drafted there. Just because that was a hole we felt should be adresses doesnt change the value of the position its more indicative of a deep roster rather than a huge need.

 

[Deus Irae]

That makes sense but it is still hard for me to agree that a long snapper deserves the same as a RB drafted there. Just because that was a hole we felt should be adresses doesnt change the value of the position its more indicative of a deep roster rather than a huge need.

If you don't feel that a long snapper is worth the value and cost of any particular pick, don't draft him at that spot.

 

[TruthSeeker]

If a longsnapper is less valuable to the team, then drafting him was indeed a wasted pick. Since he was drafted, and I presume the intent was to improve the camp competition and ultimately the overall team, he is of equivalent importance to any other player who might have been drafted then. Pay him and get him in camp.

Exactly right.

 

[Jimke]

I am also curious to know about kickers and punters drafted and how their bonuses are?? I am not sure which side I come down on with this..the kid wants his money..BUT..he seems to wish for it without earning it...so to speak.

Under the current system, all 256 draft picks get their bonus money
without showing they deserve it. The Patriots want to make Ingram
the lone exception by deferring part of his bonus until 2010.

 

[patchick]

Under the current system, all 256 draft picks get their bonus money
without showing they deserve it. The Patriots want to make Ingram
the lone exception by deferring part of his bonus until 2010.

Agreed. The more I think about it...this really doesn't seem to be about the position, since it's not about the total dollars. Rather, the deferral demand suggests that they're not expecting Ingram to make the roster at all.

Which has to make you wonder...did they not like what they saw of him at OTAs?

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Agreed. The more I think about it...this really doesn't seem to be about the position, since it's not about the total dollars. Rather, the deferral demand suggests that they're not expecting Ingram to make the roster at all.

Which has to make you wonder...did they not like what they saw of him at OTAs?

It is quite possible. If they didn't like what he did in the OTAs and are leaning strongly at the idea Hodel is going to be the one they keep why waste the money? Already wasted the pick, but no reason to compound the mistake.

Could be form or football or could be him having the wrong attitude.

Pats might be giving him a break by saying...hey we won't cut you outright, if you want you can come into camp and we will give you a shot to change our minds.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

This whole thing is bizarre. Perhaps we're over-analyzing, but it certainly seems as though the Patriots are shortchanging this kid. If we wanted him badly enough to draft him, then we need to pay him accordingly, get him into training camp, and continue evaluations. BB claims that OTAs are for teaching/installation, not evaluation (at least not primarily). Wonderful. Now is the time to follow through and see how the teaching paid off.

I would have preferred a different player with that draft slot. Even though we didn't really need yet another RB, I wanted Jennings. He was a steal, if he's half the player I think he is. Quite a few other seemingly solid players were available as well, and I'm sure each poster could talk at length about his draft binky. When it comes down to it, however, the Patriots could have chosen any of them, but did not. They made their choice, and need to give this young man a fair deal.

Also, if a long snapper holdout is the worst thing to happen this offseason, I'm perfectly okay with that.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

This whole thing is bizarre. Perhaps we're over-analyzing, but it certainly seems as though the Patriots are shortchanging this kid. If we wanted him badly enough to draft him, then we need to pay him accordingly, get him into training camp, and continue evaluations. BB claims that OTAs are for teaching/installation, not evaluation (at least not primarily). Wonderful. Now is the time to follow through and see how the teaching paid off.

I would have preferred a different player with that draft slot. Even though we didn't really need yet another RB, I wanted Jennings. He was a steal, if he's half the player I think he is. Quite a few other seemingly solid players were available as well, and I'm sure each poster could talk at length about his draft binky. When it comes down to it, however, the Patriots could have chosen any of them, but did not. They made their choice, and need to give this young man a fair deal.

Also, if a long snapper holdout is the worst thing to happen this offseason, I'm perfectly okay with that.

BB said the primary purpose of OTA/minicamps is teach not evaluation. He never said absolutely no evaluation goes on.

Keep in mind Omar Cuff was signed. Came in for the OTA and was then cut.

Of course this is pure speculation but lets assume it was an attitude issue and not football skill issue. In that case if I was BB I would tell the player straight up you need to get with the program cause right now you are not acting like a NE Patriot player. If you want to come to training camp and prove your way onto the team you can. Or you can sit out and the team will go on without you. Either way I ain't paying you one cent for you to come into camp. You want to oppertunity to prove yourself -- its yours. And I would do this not out of cheapness or wanting to save money on the cap, but to send a clear message. You need to earn your way onto the team.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Tangent...

It's going to take me a long time to stop putting a "Eugene" in front of "Chung" in my mind each time I see just his last name in a thread title.

Regards,
Chris

We've worked for months to erase that awfull mental connection Chris. Thanks for undoing all the effort.

 

[Synovia]

You're correct that the Patriots could offer a shorter contract with less
bonus money. A three year contract with a $73,000 bonus would probably
be acceptable to the agent. The sticking point with Ingram is the demand by
the Patriots that part of the bonus money be deferred until 2010. Who
knows if Ingram will be on the team in 2010 to collect the money. The
only money late round draft choices are certain to receive from a team
is their bonus money which is paid up front.

If its a signing bonus, and deferred, its still gets paid, whether hes on teh team or not.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

If its a signing bonus, and deferred, its still gets paid, whether hes on teh team or not.

Unless the player is suspended by the NFL.

 

[Synovia]

When the Patriots DRAFTED Ingram with the 198th pick, they knew
exactly how much salary and bonus money he would be due.

He's not DUE anything other than rookie minimum. Theres no salary guarantees for rookie players. He has to negotiate, and if the team says he isn't worth a signing bonus, his choice is to hold out until next year, or play for what they're willing to pay.

 

[Pats726]

"Without earning it Stan?" He's no different than Tom Brady in 2000, he was drafted because he worked hard enough and performed well enough in college to earn a team's interest. The rules of the hiring process negotiated by the NFLPA says you provide a little ernest money up front, that amount is currently $97k for a four year contract, you negotiate from that starting point. Let's not be unfair to a kid who has worked very hard and "earned" NE's interest.

As I said..I hadn't come down on one side or the other...per se..but as I wondered, are kickers punters also given those same bonuses?? I assume yes...but I do see the possibility that special team players could be seen in a different light. That was more my question. Yes, he has "earned" that in that same way, but I do wonder what the real sticking point is with the team? Will someone get short changed if they do pay out that amount in a bonus? (Not sure how all the salaries add up to amount given and if they somehow overpaid a bit for some of the 9 already signed or??) Just trying to see what and why they are trying to do this? Is a lot of that that they can and that they already have a vet long snapper?? As someone said..couldn't they have paid Paxton more and kept him??

 

[Jimke]

He's not DUE anything other than rookie minimum. Theres no salary guarantees for rookie players. He has to negotiate, and if the team says he isn't worth a signing bonus, his choice is to hold out until next year, or play for what they're willing to pay.

According to Wikipedia, there is a defacto salary scale for DRAFTED
rookies. A player is paid commensurate with where he is drafted. This
scale is used by the NFLPA to determine how much money is allocated
to the various teams to sign their rookies.

The Patriots draftees all get minimum salaries. They get bonuses
of various sorts and amounts depending upon where they were drafted.
If the Patriots decide to pay a first round pick a sixth round salary, the
NFLPA and the NFL would step in.

As you say, a signing bonus is paid out regardless of whether the player makes the team, but there are all kinds of bonuses. Fox example, Butler
gets most of his bonus money in the second year of his contract. The
bonus is called an option bonus for 1.6 million dollars. The bonus is
FULLY GUARANTEED.

I suspect that the situation with Ingram is the Patriots want to defer part of the bonus until 2010 and NOT GUARANTEE the bonus. Hopefully, the
situation will be resolved by Wednesday when the veterans report.