Dukes and Baldinger discuss the Patriots weaknesses

[PATRIOT64]

Offseason spotlight: Do 2009 Patriots have any glaring weaknesses?

Dukes says Seymour is long in the tooth ... I agree he is not what he was as a dominating young player on the D-Line,but he is not 35 years old either

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Offseason spotlight: Do 2009 Patriots have any glaring weaknesses?

Dukes says Seymour is long in the tooth ... I agree he is not what he was as a dominating young player on the D-Line,but he is not 35 years old either

Did you even watch a healthy Seymour last season?

 

[DaBruinz]

Offseason spotlight: Do 2009 Patriots have any glaring weaknesses?

Dukes says Seymour is long in the tooth ... I agree he is not what he was as a dominating young player on the D-Line,but he is not 35 years old either

Not sure how you can say that Seymour isn't dominating. Especially after last year's performance. Seymour is still the best 3-4 DE in the league and no one compares to him.

In fact, the only player who is in Seymour's league as a 3-4 D-lineman is Jamaal Williams of San Diego.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Did you even watch a healthy Seymour last season?

Seymour did indeed have a nice season in 08 with those 8 sacks, but you still can't compare that with the monster years when he was younger but then again you really can't expect to keep that pace forever.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Not sure how you can say that Seymour isn't dominating. Especially after last year's performance. Seymour is still the best 3-4 DE in the league and no one compares to him.

In fact, the only player who is in Seymour's league as a 3-4 D-lineman is Jamaal Williams of San Diego.

How can you leave out Luis Castillo and Haloti Ngata? - Seymour is better than them though

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

I think Seymour is the best... but I would consider Aaron Smith in his league, too...... for 3-4 DEs.

100% don't understand how folks could call Seymour anything BUT dominant after his performance last year.

In fact... I like our D line over all other 3-4 D lines in the league.... Sey, Wilfork and Warren..... Wow.

That's what we get with 3 first round picks manning our line, fantastic drafting, and even better coaching.

 

[PATRIOT64]

I think Seymour is the best... but I would consider Aaron Smith in his league, too...... for 3-4 DEs.

100% don't understand how folks could call Seymour anything BUT dominant after his performance last year.

In fact... I like our D line over all other 3-4 D lines in the league.... Sey, Wilfork and Warren..... Wow.

That's what we get with 3 first round picks manning our line, fantastic drafting, and even better coaching.

Drafting was decent in the past few years but fantastic it was not - 2006 was horrid except for our Kicker we drafted - Maroney will be gone if he is non effective this year.

2007 was bad as well if you don't include the wheels and deals we made getting Welker and Moss

 

[Deus Irae]

How can you leave out Luis Castillo and Haloti Ngata? - Seymour is better than them though

Williams isn't even the best 3-4 NT anymore, and Castillo is nowhere near as good as Seymour.

 

[PATRIOT64]

What I think Dukes left out of his analogy of this team was that we should sign Vick to be our situational pass rusher at OLB since he loves the guy so much and wants him to come to NE :banned:

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

How can you leave out Luis Castillo and Haloti Ngata? - Seymour is better than them though

Ngata is a strange one for me... never can remember him in these debates.... just "seems" like a DT to me... which IS an unfair knock... since Seymour "seems' like a DT, too... I just happen to watch a lot more pats football than Ravens...

THAT being said... Ngata does move around an awful lot... IS he truly a DE?

Regardless, I agree that when he plays the edge, he is a force... so I see your point... just not sure if he would be classified as a true DE.

Also.... I think that Seymour is the best of them all.... so, to the original point... NO idea how anyone can knock us on our D line... again, I think it's the best in the league.

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

Drafting was decent in the past few years but fantastic it was not - 2006 was horrid except for our Kicker we drafted - Maroney will be gone if he is non effective this year.

2007 was bad as well if you don't include the wheels and deals we made getting Welker and Moss

I'm not going to highjack the thread on a drafting debate... I think we can agree that we "hit" on Seymour, Warren and Wilfork, no?

I would say (and do say) that all three of those folks were fantastic pickups and act as the anchor of our defense.

 

[DaBruinz]

How can you leave out Luis Castillo and Haloti Ngata? - Seymour is better than them though

How can I leave those two out? Very easily. Ngata plays in a hybrid system that's never truly a 3-4.

Luis Castillo is no where close to being in Seymour's league, imho. In fact, I put Castillo below Jarvis Green in terms of talent.

 

[DaBruinz]

Williams isn't even the best 3-4 NT anymore, and Castillo is nowhere near as good as Seymour.

Who is a better 3-4 NT than Jamaal Williams?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Seymour did indeed have a nice season in 08 with those 8 sacks, but you still can't compare that with the monster years when he was younger but then again you really can't expect to keep that pace forever.

I don't know why not? By the numbers it's the same ballpark, the clear difference was in the health/talent of the supporting cast. Richard Seymour

The man plays at a consistently high level, injuries do slow him, but they slow everybody. He may not be as inexpensive as he was on his rookie contract, but as a proven veteran he's earned to right to negotiate all the market will bear. I truly do not understand the criticism he receives, perhaps on an individual play it's warranted, but on his production as a whole - Sey is a stud and worth every penny.

 

[Deus Irae]

Who is a better 3-4 NT than Jamaal Williams?

Wilfork and Ngata come to mind right away. Pittsburgh fans would argue Hampton, as well.

 

[shmessy]

The two pundits are correct in their fundamental points, however.

The Patriot pass rush was brutally bad last year. It made a solid B secondary into a C- one last year. When a QB has five seconds to make all his reads, of course the secondary is going to get burned.

I'm interested to see how a healthy AD, a healthy Tank Williams and the reacquired TBC affect the situation this year. The real sleeper here, IMHO, will be Crable.

Plus, the secondary went from a solid B to what I believe will be a B+ (and a DEEP one, at that).

To me, the real weakness on the D comes down to Bruschi (sadly). We need someone to step up to pair with Mayo. McKenzie would have been very interesting if he hadn't gotten hurt. Guyton will be a very important player to watch in TC.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The two pundits are correct in their fundamental points, however.

The Patriot pass rush was brutally bad last year. It made a solid B secondary into a C- one last year. When a QB has five seconds to make all his reads, of course the secondary is going to get burned.

I'm interested to see how a healthy AD, a healthy Tank Williams and the reacquired TBC affect the situation this year. The real sleeper here, IMHO, will be Crable.

Plus, the secondary went from a solid B to what I believe will be a B+ (and a DEEP one, at that).

To me, the real weakness on the D comes down to Bruschi (sadly). We need someone to step up to pair with Mayo. McKenzie would have been very interesting if he hadn't gotten hurt. Guyton will be a very important player to watch in TC.

Don't come out of hibernation and immediately start talking sense, it's intimidating to we mere mortals.

 

[farn]

Sey gets a bad rap for his injured seasons in recent years. In 08 he was more of a difference maker than many give him credit for.

Lets see what happens in the fall... I, for one, would not be surprised to see Sey - not Vince - in a NE uniform in Sept '10 (though I hope they can keep Wilfork...).

 

[DaBruinz]

Wilfork and Ngata come to mind right away. Pittsburgh fans would argue Hampton, as well.

No way. Sorry. Wilfork isn't better than Williams.. And Ngata doesn't play NT. He's more of a DE/DT.

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

No way. Sorry. Wilfork isn't better than Williams.. And Ngata doesn't play NT. He's more of a DE/DT.

I disagree... I would take Wilfork and Hampton over Williams.

Ngata is a strange one... tough to really establish what his position is... but he belongs in the discussion for either position, imho.