NFLN: Patriots one of league's top five fan bases

[Scouse Patriot]

NFL Network's Jamie Dukes conducted a study of league fan bases using criteria of merch sales, how well fans travel to road games, etc., and announced the top five:

(1). Steelers
(2). Packers
(3). Cowboys
(4). Giants
(5). Patriots

Pretty interesting (and a bit surprising, though pleasantly so).

:rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker:

Redskins break attendance records, bring in some of the highest revenue in the NFL through merchandise and other means and they don't even break into the top five?

Seems like Jamie's study session was more like his imagination whilst having a dump in the NFL studios.

 

[WelcometotheRazor]

That's what I was thinking. Much as I love the Pats, I know that they weren't exactly beloved by their home base through all the years.

However, it could be argued that it's just that, unlike in Wisconsin, there are other things to do in New England.

Seriously though, the first time I went to NE I had a bit of a rude awakening. It was 2004, the Pats were two-time SB champs and on their way to winning their third (and second in a row), but I realized that even with all those accomplishments the Pats would always take a back seat to the Sox.

That's because it was 2004, and something so historical was about to happen. I went to the Skin-Pats game in 2007 when the Sox were playing a clinching game in the WS that night, and the focus was all Pats...

 

[WelcometotheRazor]

Yes, and as he moved from #5 - the Patriots to #4 - the Giants, he said "staying in New England, we have the Giants..."

Mike McDermott of the Projo picked up on that too. It got quite the chuckle out of me.

I have lived in Eastern Massachusetts my whole life, I'm almost 30, and I don't get the Giants thing. I get that they had fans around here before 1960 when they were the closest thing on TV, but that was a loooong time ago. I didn't grow up knowing A SINGLE Giants fan. And until the Super Bowl in February 2008, to me, they were just another very dull team from the NFC that I didn't think or care about. Yeah, they are on FOX sometimes and I know there is some history from 50 yrs ago from playing in Yankee Stadium and all, but are they really one of the top NFL franchises? I just don't see them in a class with Dallas, Pitts, and GB. Hell, when you go to NYC, you hardly ever see anyone wearing any Giants stuff. And since they lost to Philly this year, they are never heard from in national media stories. I just don't get the big deal with that team......to me, they seem to have a large bandwagon fan base, sellout streak or not (that stadium sounds VERY quiet on TV)

 

[MarvLevy]

I don't buy it for a second. If anything, the top fanbases are the ones that are still selling out the home stadium week in and week out even though the team is awful.
Any list that doesn't have the Redskins on it is a joke. They've sold out every home game for the last 40 years, even though the team has pretty much sucked for going on a decade. That seems like far more of a testament to the fans than the fact that the Boston sports scene can be convinced to care about the Pats whenever a dynasty comes around.

Buffalo, cough cough. For a decade of terrible football and one of the bigger stadiums in the league despite a "terrible market", we've probably had less than 10 non-sellouts.

Additionally, the Giants isa joke. They play in New Jersey but are right next to the biggest city in the US. How hard is it to have sellouts and a "rabid" fanbase? Gimme Kansas City or Denver over them anyday.

Plus, any list without Jacksonville on the top is a joke. They are die-hards.

 

[TrueBeliever]

Well, let me explain what I was trying to say. Now that the Pats are on top, one of the most common things you hear from other fans is "Yeah but where were all the fans before 2002?" And yes, we all know that every game since Kraft bought the team has been sold out. But if you go back through the years, there were plenty of times when the stadium was far from full and you couldn't give tickets away.

Unlike other people though, I don't blame NE fans for being fickle. The team was terrible for many years, and when it was good it didn't seem to last for more than a few seasons at a time (until '94.) But the thing is, I know for a fact that plenty of Packer fans are the same way. Yes the stadium has been completely sold out for decades, but when the team's not so hot a good number of season ticket holders sell their seats to people who just want to see a game. I know a season ticket holder, and he said that while he was happy when the Packers finally started turning things around in the early-mid '90s, it meant he lost some good friends he had at the stadium because once the Packers were actually a good team the people who held the tickets suddenly decided to start going to games again.

And like was mentioned, there's the historical perspective. In Boston you had the Sox, Celtics and Bruins, three teams with long histories. Then there were the Pats, the new kid on the block who played way down in Foxboro.

Every team in every sport has its share of diehard fans and its share of fairweather fans. Some have more than others in either category. But as I get older, I've just learned that there's more to life than football.

Sorry I'm kinda rambling again.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sorry I'm kinda rambling again.

You weren't driving that Weinermobile near Milwaukee were you?

 

[hallfamebrady]

I have a lot of thoughts on this debate.

1. Any study on the best fan base is open to wide interpetation. You can make arguuments that Cleveland, Philadelphia, Denver, Oakland, Washington, or even Detroit as being the best fan bases if you measure different items. People forget how Eagle fans outnumbered us at Super Bowl 39 by a lot.

2. If you look at the history of the five teams mentioned, there is one common item. It is long periods of WINNING before the developed a loyal fanbase. The Steelers and the Patriots franchises both won their first championships in their 42nd seasons. You could not give Steeler tickets away before their dynasty. The Pirates dominated Pittsburgh since they were winning championships.

In addition, the current fascination with the Red Sox fan base started around 1967 when they won the pennant for the first time in 21 years. The Red Sox have only had five losing seasons since 1967 and only finished in last place once. Like the Steelers, people paid little attention to a franchise.

3. People who say the Red Sox fan base is greater than the Patriot Fan base is fooling themselves. How do you explain that fact the Pats kill the Red Sox in head to head TV ratings every time they play? Simple. The Pats are more popular than the Red Sox although the media establishment would like you to think otherwise. Having the Boston Globe as your owner can influence a lot of people.

4. The Pats watershed moment occurred in 1994 when the Kraft's bought the team and they ended the 1993 season on a big winning streak. Similiar to the Steelers and the Red Sox, the Patriots have only had two losing seasons since 1994. The long streak of success has built a huge fan base

 

[WelcometotheRazor]

Buffalo, cough cough. For a decade of terrible football and one of the bigger stadiums in the league despite a "terrible market", we've probably had less than 10 non-sellouts.

Additionally, the Giants isa joke. They play in New Jersey but are right next to the biggest city in the US. How hard is it to have sellouts and a "rabid" fanbase? Gimme Kansas City or Denver over them anyday.

Plus, any list without Jacksonville on the top is a joke. They are die-hards.

Agreed over the Giants. A lot of Buffalo's games are blacked out every year, despite hovering around .500 most of the time. And Oakland? They play in front of a half-empty stadium by the 3rd game of every year! Look at it this way - our lean years were early on, Oakland's lean years are now, so when teams win, stadiums and fan bases grow, and when teams lose, people aren't into it as much. We have a longer sell out streak than Philadelphia does (by a longshot), and they are always competitive. Can you name 10 better fan bases than us?

Carolina?
Atlanta?
New Orleans?
San Diego?
Indy?
Cinncy?
Arizona?
Houston?
MIAMI? (another team that has played to small crowds for years now)
Jets (look at that stadium at kick off - there are 1,000's of those ugly orange seats that no one shows up for if it even rains - I noticed this while watching the Denver game in NJ this yr)
Jacksonville?
Minnesota?
St Louis?

If any of these cities had as bad football teams for as many years the Boston area had, they would have packed up and moved. The fact that we had 30 yrs of awful football here and didn't move anywhere (despite specuation) is a testement to the local fan base. Bob Kraft realized the fan base was here for a hugely successful franchise, all he needed to do was find a way to extract it out...

 

[BradyFTW!]

3. People who say the Red Sox fan base is greater than the Patriot Fan base is fooling themselves. How do you explain that fact the Pats kill the Red Sox in head to head TV ratings every time they play? Simple. The Pats are more popular than the Red Sox although the media establishment would like you to think otherwise. Having the Boston Globe as your owner can influence a lot of people.

IMO, that would be because the Sox play 162 games in a season, and the Pats play 16. If you miss one Sox game, it's no big deal- they played on saturday, they may play again on monday, and they will play again on tuesday, so you can miss them on Sunday. Hell, I'd consider myself a pretty diehard Sox fan, and I miss over half of their games (living out in LA, it's difficult to catch them regularly). I never miss a Pats game, though.

With the Pats, OTOH, if you miss a game you've lost 6% of the season all at once. I know a lot of people who are far bigger Sox fans than Pats fans but who always watch the Pats when they're H2H for that exact reason.

 

[Patjew]

Agreed over the Giants. A lot of Buffalo's games are blacked out every year, despite hovering around .500 most of the time. And Oakland? They play in front of a half-empty stadium by the 3rd game of every year! Look at it this way - our lean years were early on, Oakland's lean years are now, so when teams win, stadiums and fan bases grow, and when teams lose, people aren't into it as much. We have a longer sell out streak than Philadelphia does (by a longshot), and they are always competitive. Can you name 10 better fan bases than us?

Carolina?
Atlanta?
New Orleans?
San Diego?
Indy?
Cinncy?
Arizona?
Houston?
MIAMI? (another team that has played to small crowds for years now)
Jets (look at that stadium at kick off - there are 1,000's of those ugly orange seats that no one shows up for if it even rains - I noticed this while watching the Denver game in NJ this yr)
Jacksonville?
Minnesota?
St Louis?

If any of these cities had as bad football teams for as many years the Boston area had, they would have packed up and moved. The fact that we had 30 yrs of awful football here and didn't move anywhere (despite specuation) is a testement to the local fan base. Bob Kraft realized the fan base was here for a hugely successful franchise, all he needed to do was find a way to extract it out...

The Pats never had more than 10 years, let alone 30 years, of awful continuous football, which is the key to building and maintaining a fan base. And they still came as close to moving as can be.

 

[BigtimeColtsfans]

Agreed over the Giants. A lot of Buffalo's games are blacked out every year, despite hovering around .500 most of the time. And Oakland? They play in front of a half-empty stadium by the 3rd game of every year! Look at it this way - our lean years were early on, Oakland's lean years are now, so when teams win, stadiums and fan bases grow, and when teams lose, people aren't into it as much. We have a longer sell out streak than Philadelphia does (by a longshot), and they are always competitive. Can you name 10 better fan bases than us?

Carolina?
Atlanta?
New Orleans?
San Diego?
Indy?
Cinncy?
Arizona?
Houston?
MIAMI? (another team that has played to small crowds for years now)
Jets (look at that stadium at kick off - there are 1,000's of those ugly orange seats that no one shows up for if it even rains - I noticed this while watching the Denver game in NJ this yr)
Jacksonville?
Minnesota?
St Louis?

If any of these cities had as bad football teams for as many years the Boston area had, they would have packed up and moved. The fact that we had 30 yrs of awful football here and didn't move anywhere (despite specuation) is a testement to the local fan base. Bob Kraft realized the fan base was here for a hugely successful franchise, all he needed to do was find a way to extract it out...

You serious?

NO stunk from 1967 to whenever they won their first playoff game, it was sometime in the 80's. Atlanta has never had back to back winning seasons. Cincinatti hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years and has only made the playoffs once since 1990. Indy stunk for years and was in danger of moving (LA rumors remember?) before Polian Dungy and Manning got it turned around. Arizona before last year had won one playoff game in something like 50 years, of course they did move, twice during that time, but still Cardinal fans are long suffering no matter what city they're in.

Boston isn't any different suffering wise than a lot of NFL markets. Hell, GB was awful for years and years pretty much from the 70's until the early 90's. When I was a kid the Packers were a joke. Look at the Lions, they have won one playoff game in 50 years.

Also Boston is a much bigger market than just about all those teams you listed. The Boston market is twice as big as Indy, and much bigger than NO, Jax, GB etc.

 

[TrueBeliever]

NO stunk from 1967 to whenever they won their first playoff game, it was sometime in the 80's.

Actually they didn't win a playoff game until 2000 when they defeated the defending champion Rams. What you're thinking of is the Jim Mora years, which IIRC is when they first reached the playoffs; they won their first division title in 1991 (again, IIRC), and I believe they didn't win it again until 2006 (though by that point they were in a different division.) The 'Aints never seem to have gotten over the expansion team blues.

 

[BigtimeColtsfans]

Actually they didn't win a playoff game until 2000 when they defeated the defending champion Rams. What you're thinking of is the Jim Mora years, which IIRC is when they first reached the playoffs; they won their first division title in 1991 (again, IIRC), and I believe they didn't win it again until 2006 (though by that point they were in a different division.) The 'Aints never seem to have gotten over the expansion team blues.

yeah, you're right. I didn't look up the saints records, I just remember what a big deal it was when they first made the PO's.

Anyway, my point was they have pretty much always stunk.

 

[WelcometotheRazor]

Looks like the Jet's fans aren't too pumped up about this yr...

NY Jets announce unprecedented season ticket availability for 2009 season - NJ.com

Hehe

Jetsinsider must be loving this.....

 

[Bartmac36]

This a pleasant surprise considering we are one of them most hated as well...I wouldn't put Pittsburgh ahead of Green Bay and I don't think the Giants should be on there...I would put Philly in the Giants place because they are more dedicated than just about any other fans and also because most of the Giants' fans are bandwagon jumpers...

 

[mgcolby]

Seems to me if you just thought about the NFL and named the first 5 teams to pop into your head you'd come up with the same list.

Steelers, most recent SB winner
Giants, Best NY Team, very popular
Patriots, Decade of Dominance
Cowboys "Americas Team"
Packers "Favre, Favre, Favre"

I like the Criteria including Away Crowd. Steelers win for just that alone.

I bought season tickets to the Dolphins to ensure that I got 8 seats together for the Pats game and that I don't have to pay double the ticket price. I have sold all 8 games for the Steelers (all to Steeler fans) which is the last game of the year and a pair of Colts tickets so far. Steeler fans by far are the best road fans in the league, hands downs!

And for the anti-scalping whiners! I only charge the face value plus the amount to cover the 2 preseason games spread out over 8 tickets for each game that I sell (7 games total)... So please don't bombard me with crap about being part of the problem etc...

 

[patchick]

I've never understood why people take the popularity of the Red Sox as a slam on the Patriots' fan base. After all, the question is what are the NFL's best fan bases -- not what are the best "football towns."

In a "football town" the team is a core part of the civic identity and no other sport comes close. You enter the town, and you're in Team Territory. Green Bay, WI is a "football town." Lincoln, NE is a "football town." Etc. They're generally smallish, homogeneous communities. A sprawling, diverse major metropolitan area isn't going to have that same concentrated atmosphere, but it can still house a huge, devoted and knowledgeable football fan base.

Pittsburgh arguably counts as a genuine "football city," so Steelers fans deserve their #1 ranking. But metro Pitt is half the size of metro Boston. (BTW, 21st-century Pittsburgh is definitely not a "godforsaken hellhole" as a previous poster put it. One of the nicest cities in the country, at least for the warm half of the year!)

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I bought season tickets to the Dolphins to ensure that I got 8 seats together for the Pats game and that I don't have to pay double the ticket price. I have sold all 8 games for the Steelers (all to Steeler fans) which is the last game of the year and a pair of Colts tickets so far. Steeler fans by far are the best road fans in the league, hands downs!

And for the anti-scalping whiners! I only charge the face value plus the amount to cover the 2 preseason games spread out over 8 tickets for each game that I sell (7 games total)... So please don't bombard me with crap about being part of the problem etc...

Harumph, I've always thought of you as "part of the problem," if not the entire problem. :snob:

 

[mgcolby]

Harumph, I've always thought of you as "part of the problem," if not the entire problem. :snob:

Can always count on Box for a good quip.

Last time I did this in 2006 I had several people read me the riot act before I could explain. So this time I thought I would be proactive...

 

[TrueBeliever]

You weren't driving that Weinermobile near Milwaukee were you?

No, but I did drive a French-Fry Festiva once.