Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close [Update: Bussey signs]

[pats1]

Patriots sign Tate, Vollmer - The Boston Globe

 

[cloud34]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

So, that would leave just Chung and McKenzie, correct?

 

[pats1]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

So, that would leave just Chung and McKenzie, correct?

Correct...

 

[patchick]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

So, that would leave just Chung and McKenzie, correct?

And given McKenzie's situation which requires waiting for the slots above and below, there's really only Chung. Very good progress indeed.

 

[DefenseRules]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

I am officially impressed. I didn't think that we would be able to get all of our picks signed in time for camp for two reasons. Our FO has changed and we drafted A LOT of players. I just thought that we would have some glitches here and there without Pioli. Good job by the FO.

 

[Jimke]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

I am officially impressed. I didn't think that we would be able to get all of our picks signed in time for camp for two reasons. Our FO has changed and we drafted A LOT of players. I just thought that we would have some glitches here and there without Pioli. Good job by the FO.

Floyd Reese has negotiated lots of contracts.

 

[farn]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

Floyd Reese has negotiated lots of contracts.

Yup - I think they may have brought him onboard for that reason. His history with BB obviously helps.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

I know its pretty normal for the Pats to get most, if not all of their draft choices under contract and in camp on time, but part of me wonders if there is more to my perception that they are doing a better job at the negotiating table this year as opposed to previous years. Is it because.....

-Is Reese is a better negotiator than Pioli? (i dont necessarily think so, but I do wonder if their negotiating styles are different and Reese has a better approach. My impression is that Pioli with rooks was more of a hard-line take it or leave it negotiator).

-The possibility of an uncapped year in '10 has the Pats thinking that these rookie contracts will have less of an impact on the overall salary structure next year.

-With the current economic conditions, are agents more ammeable to the deals that are being put forth buy the Pats?

Anyone know up to this point how other teams are fairing in signing their picks? Are they penny-pinching or having the same level of success as the Pats?

 

[patchick]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

I know its pretty normal for the Pats to get most, if not all of their draft choices under contract and in camp on time, but part of me wonders if there is more to my perception that they are doing a better job at the negotiating table this year as opposed to previous years. Is it because.....

-Is Reese is a better negotiator than Pioli? (i dont necessarily think so, but I do wonder if their negotiating styles are different and Reese has a better approach. My impression is that Pioli with rooks was more of a hard-line take it or leave it negotiator).

I don't know if it's better or worse, but I do have the impression of "quicker" as you do. (Anybody know the status of the KC rookies?)

On the cynical side, I'd add another "because" to your list:

- They did not pick in the 1st round. Note that the only player who isn't at least rumored to be a done deal is also the only one selected in the top 40.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

According to kansascitystar.com, they just signed a 5th round pick and have their two 7th rounders under contract.

IMO, it doesn't really offer up much insight. My assumption is that they viewed Cassel's contract as a higher-priority and wanted to address that first.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

I know its pretty normal for the Pats to get most, if not all of their draft choices under contract and in camp on time, but part of me wonders if there is more to my perception that they are doing a better job at the negotiating table this year as opposed to previous years. Is it because.....

-Is Reese is a better negotiator than Pioli? (i dont necessarily think so, but I do wonder if their negotiating styles are different and Reese has a better approach. My impression is that Pioli with rooks was more of a hard-line take it or leave it negotiator).

-The possibility of an uncapped year in '10 has the Pats thinking that these rookie contracts will have less of an impact on the overall salary structure next year.

-With the current economic conditions, are agents more ammeable to the deals that are being put forth buy the Pats?

Anyone know up to this point how other teams are fairing in signing their picks? Are they penny-pinching or having the same level of success as the Pats?

Reese helped put the Titans in cap hell. Frankly, having him in charge of contracts concerns me.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

Reese helped put the Titans in cap hell. Frankly, having him in charge of contracts concerns me.

If BB and the Krafts didn't already have a sound financial model in place which has been proven sucessful, I would be too. When they start giving middle-aged players 5 yr 40m w/ 20m in guarantees, then I'll fret.

On a seperate note, based on their backgrounds, seems like Reese and Caserio should have their roles & responsibilities reversed. From what I understand, Caserio has a outstanding financial background with an MBA and I think worked for Morgan Stanley and Reese has a very good track record of evaluating talent. My assumption is that Reese is mentoring Caserio with the contract/negotiating aspect of the business as BB doesn't have the bandwidth.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

If BB and the Krafts didn't already have a sound financial model in place which has been proven sucessful, I would be too. When they start giving middle-aged players 5 yr 40m w/ 20m in guarantees, then I'll fret.

On a seperate note, based on their backgrounds, seems like Reese and Caserio should have their roles & responsibilities reversed. From what I understand, Caserio has a outstanding financial background with an MBA and I think worked for Morgan Stanley and Reese has a very good track record of evaluating talent. My assumption is that Reese is mentoring Caserio with the contract/negotiating aspect of the business as BB doesn't have the bandwidth.

There is also the experience: Reese worked in Cleveland's front office prior to the Salary Cap, he would seem to have a better grasp of uncapped/capped history and is in place to not only help with Caserio's development, but also to provide BB a peer to help brainstorm management strategy as the CBA shifts occur. The second round contracts being agreed to/signed are interesting for not having Signing Bonuses - look how Butler's contorted ProFootballTalk's sources - myself, I'm waiting to read Miguel's updates and see how much is saved off the cap, and speculate on how it might be used...

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

... myself, I'm waiting to read Miguel's updates and see how much is saved off the cap, and speculate on how it might be used...

There's a fat guy with a pretty good sense of humor when he's not playing NT for the Patriots on Sundays who's wondering about that, too.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

There is also the experience: Reese worked in Cleveland's front office prior to the Salary Cap, he would seem to have a better grasp of uncapped/capped history and is in place to not only help with Caserio's development, but also to provide BB a peer to help brainstorm management strategy as the CBA shifts occur. The second round contracts being agreed to/signed are interesting for not having Signing Bonuses - look how Butler's contorted ProFootballTalk's sources - myself, I'm waiting to read Miguel's updates and see how much is saved off the cap, and speculate on how it might be used...

I knew Reese and BB went way back, but the perspective that he brings with regard to an uncapped operating model is an angle that I hadn't really put much thought into. I think you are spot on in that assessment in his hiring...

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

I think it is interesting to speculate what the Patriot's signing strategy will be with a) an uncapped 2010 or b) a NEW CBA and a capped 2010.

The Pats seem to be preparing for an uncapped 2010. Then the can resign ALL their big stars with a significant percentage of the pay being once-only 2010 un-amortized pay. That would make meeting the CAP the following years quite easy. With two Franchise tags to work with, it would appear they only lose someone that is adamant about leaving.

In the case of a capped 2010, the issue is not as clear. With as many FA as they have, I speculate that they would lose a few good players. But can't predict who. Likely Jarvis Green.

It would seem that it would be easy to retain the DL,so dear to Belichick's heart. Seymour already makes "Haynesworth" money and a re-signing is not going to affect the present CAP much. Wilfork's resigning will add to the present cap by a sizable amount, as would a Mankins resigning. Could they accommodate that much new CAP is the question. But a combo of SB and Non-amortizable bonuses could be tailored to do so, I suspect.

I think the key question is Stephen Neal. We all saw the difference that he makes in the line play. But he will be pushing 34. How much to pay him and how much will opponents bid is the question, in seeking to retain him. Parcels knows how to hurt an opponent by a key signing. Look at the Curtis Martin affair. He broughthe Pats back to the rest of the AFCE by removing their RB, and running game, and improved the Jets, significantly. Could he do the same with the Phish? They do need a good Guard.

On the main subject, it looks like all the Pats draftees, save Chung, will be signed before Camp. Is a Chung holdout likely?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

There's a fat guy with a pretty good sense of humor when he's not playing NT for the Patriots on Sundays who's wondering about that, too.

:snob: :snob:

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

I think it is interesting to speculate what the Patriot's signing strategy will be with a) an uncapped 2010 or b) a NEW CBA and a capped 2010.

The Pats seem to be preparing for an uncapped 2010. Then the can resign ALL their big stars with a significant percentage of the pay being once-only 2010 un-amortized pay. That would make meeting the CAP the following years quite easy. With two Franchise tags to work with, it would appear they only lose someone that is adamant about leaving.

In the case of a capped 2010, the issue is not as clear. With as many FA as they have, I speculate that they would lose a few good players. But can't predict who. Likely Jarvis Green.

It would seem that it would be easy to retain the DL,so dear to Belichick's heart. Seymour already makes "Haynesworth" money and a re-signing is not going to affect the present CAP much. Wilfork's resigning will add to the present cap by a sizable amount, as would a Mankins resigning. Could they accommodate that much new CAP is the question. But a combo of SB and Non-amortizable bonuses could be tailored to do so, I suspect.

I think the key question is Stephen Neal. We all saw the difference that he makes in the line play. But he will be pushing 34. How much to pay him and how much will opponents bid is the question, in seeking to retain him. Parcels knows how to hurt an opponent by a key signing. Look at the Curtis Martin affair. He broughthe Pats back to the rest of the AFCE by removing their RB, and running game, and improved the Jets, significantly. Could he do the same with the Phish? They do need a good Guard.

On the main subject, it looks like all the Pats draftees, save Chung, will be signed before Camp. Is a Chung holdout likely?

It is really interesting and I do agree based on the lack of big signing bonuses as Box points out (Vollmer got 250k which is not much for a 2nd round pick) and coupled with their lack of movement on long term deals with Wilfork, Mankins, etc. that they are preparing (at least financially) for an uncapped year by refraining on committing to big $$$ contracts (coould be the economy too although 95% of last years tix holders renewed). I'm trying not to be a conspiricy theorist, but I do think the Brace pick and the 3 OLs that they drafted was a convienent and proactive move in the attempt to lighten the potential loss of Wilfork and Mankins.

I do like Neal a lot and based on numbers I saw somewhere, the running game was much more effective in 08 once he got off the PUP. But at 34, either the Pats will give him a 1 or 2-year deal at short dollars or let him walk.

I havent heard anything about a potential Chung holdout. My gut tells me based on how things went down with brace and seabass, he'll be signed before camp.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

If BB and the Krafts didn't already have a sound financial model in place which has been proven sucessful, I would be too. When they start giving middle-aged players 5 yr 40m w/ 20m in guarantees, then I'll fret.

On a seperate note, based on their backgrounds, seems like Reese and Caserio should have their roles & responsibilities reversed. From what I understand, Caserio has a outstanding financial background with an MBA and I think worked for Morgan Stanley and Reese has a very good track record of evaluating talent. My assumption is that Reese is mentoring Caserio with the contract/negotiating aspect of the business as BB doesn't have the bandwidth.

Caserio has also coached for the Pats, meaning that he has a more intricate understanding of the Pats' system-specific scouting needs than Reese does.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Gasper: Bussey, Ingram close

Caserio has also coached for the Pats, meaning that he has a more intricate understanding of the Pats' system-specific scouting needs than Reese does.

Yup, the personnel side of the Pats has a nice blend of NFL/NEP experience to transition from the Pioli years, all those 'BB is leaving' folks need to get their heads out of cranial-rectal insertion mode and smell the future. :singing: