Fear is your only God- a study of fear in monkeys

[Wildo7]

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana.

As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey will make an attempt with the same response -- all of the monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Keep this up for several days.

Turn off the cold water. If, later, another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it even though no water sprays them.

Now, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm.

Replace the third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four monkeys that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

On the subject of the thread title? Speak for yourself

Perhaps the less sensational title for your thread would be "Interestingly, monkeys culturally pass on taboos."

PFnV

 

[gomezcat]

Edited to avoid too much antagonism.

 

[maverick4]

The thing about your study/story, is that there actually was cold water poured before the new monkeys joined. If you're relating this to religion, then you're saying something supernatural actually did happen in the past.

 

[Wildo7]

The thing about your study/story, is that there actually was cold water poured before the new monkeys joined. If you're relating this to religion, then you're saying something supernatural actually did happen in the past.

Right, but that's actually irrelevant if you think about it. The fact is monkeys (humans) will conform in extreme ways without understanding why.

By the waym this isn't an innate argument against religion specifically, I just saw it posted somewhere and thought it was interesting but I couldn't figure out where to put it. Then I decided I could ruffle some feathers (read: troll) by adding in a condescending, inflammatory title (albeit an accurate one from a Pascal's wager POV). Sort of the way the religious like to tell non believers that we only choose not to believe because "life didn't work out the way we wanted" or that God must be real because some fictional professor got schooled by a student in a battle of who can make the most idiotic argument etc.

 

[Fogbuster]

One thing that jumps out into the spotlight like an old Michael Jackson video: humans are NOT monkeys(!!!).

I know that is a major news flash for some people, but it is what is: fact.

Another thing is that, even if people learn to fear punishment if they do certain things in front of their own kind that brings certain condemnation, then how come so many people freely and willingly adopted Christianity at a time when Christians were hunted like rats during the first three centuries A.D., then captured and hung from crosses, burned alive as torches to light up the Appian Way, and thrown into the Coliseum, to be fed to lions and other wild beasts???

Were such people, Christians, "stupid"?? Did they have "low self esteem"?? Did they have a "secret death wish"?? Or, as is chronicled in Roman and other literature, were they simply people of faith who believed that God had worked through His Son, ************, to establish an entirely new level of relationship with God and their fellow human beings??

Billions have subscribed to the latter view, which then trumps the "born stupid" view, with no contest. And those billions went on to create the most advanced and successful civilization in all of human history, bar none.


//

 

[DarrylS]

One thing that jumps out into the spotlight like an old Michael Jackson video: humans are NOT monkeys(!!!).

I know that is a major news flash for some people, but it is what is: fact.

Another thing is that, even if people learn to fear punishment if they do certain things in front of their own kind that brings certain condemnation, then how come so many people freely and willingly adopted Christianity at a time when Christians were hunted like rats during the first three centuries A.D., then captured and hung from crosses, burned alive as torches to light up the Appian Way, and thrown into the Coliseum, to be fed to lions and other wild beasts???

Were such people, Christians, "stupid"?? Did they have "low self esteem"?? Did they have a "secret death wish"?? Or, as is chronicled in Roman and other literature, were they simply people of faith who believed that God had worked through His Son, ************, to establish an entirely new level of relationship with God and their fellow human beings??

Billions have subscribed to the latter view, which then trumps the "born stupid" view, with no contest. And those billions went on to create the most advanced and successful civilization in all of human history, bar none.


//

Looks like a nice civil post, for a change time out does the kids good once and a while.. a kinder gentler poster.

 

[Fogbuster]

Looks like a nice civil post, for a change time out does the kids good once and a while.. a kinder gentler poster.

The world is a much nicer place when people do not personally insult, engage in personal attacks or insult other people's religious faith. Much, much nicer.


//

 

[maverick4]

Right, but that's actually irrelevant if you think about it. The fact is monkeys (humans) will conform in extreme ways without understanding why.

I think this point would be stronger if they conformed without the original event happening or being real. The fact that there actually was cold water in the beginning, makes it hard to troll or link it to religion.

At the same time, one could look at Scientologists or cults and agree with the point you're trying to make. Hubbard even admitted before inventing his religion that it was the best way to make money from people.

 

[godef]

The world is a much nicer place when people do not personally insult, engage in personal attacks or insult other people's religious faith. Much, much nicer.


//

And when people don't push their faith onto others who don't want it.

 

[Fogbuster]

And when people don't push their faith onto others who don't want it.

Yeah, right. Like that happens around here. Have a nice life.

 

[godef]

Yeah, right. Like that happens around here. Have a nice life.

Are you kidding? What do you think the whole "Right to Life" movement is baed on? Religion.

 

[Fogbuster]

Are you kidding? What do you think the whole "Right to Life" movement is baed on? Religion.

Yeah, they're so bad.


//

 

[godef]

Yeah, they're so bad.


//

Not saying who's bad or who's good, but "it" (pushing religion) DOES happen around here.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the right to life thing is funny considering the number of people who have died in this world via the pushing of religion........

talk about a mind-numbing power grab........

 

[Fogbuster]

Not saying who's bad or who's good, but "it" (pushing religion) DOES happen around here.

Blame the Pilgrims, blame the founders, blame the entire history of America.

Oh, and by the way, being "a-religious" or "anti-religious" is also a position on religion, too. So it cuts both ways.

Live with it. It's life, and people want it that way.

 

[wistahpatsfan]

Blame the Pilgrims, blame the founders, blame the entire history of America.

Oh, and by the way, being "a-religious" or "anti-religious" is also a position on religion, too. So it cuts both ways.

Live with it. It's life, and people want it that way.

You're on thin ice when you put up religious people that we think are good as a rationale for why religion is good. You know that. right?

The Pilgrims were demons from hell from the perspective of Massasoit and his son Phillip, whose head spent 30 years on a pike outside of Plimoth Plantation as a warning to other Indians who had any thoughts about who was in charge. Psychotic murderers.

 

[reflexblue]

I like an experiment i learned about in the '70's. A group of rats were placed in a cage, the floor of the cage was electrically charged so they were getting shocked. When the rats couldn't find the source of the pain they turned on each other.

 

[godef]

I like an experiment i learned about in the '70's. A group of rats were placed in a cage, the floor of the cage was electrically charged so they were getting shocked. When the rats couldn't find the source of the pain they turned on each other.

They ratted on each other?!?

 

[reflexblue]

They ratted on each other?!?

I never thought of it that way but i guess so.