Patriots Way too tough to copy?

[jmt57]

Patriots Way too tough to copy? by Andy Hart of Patriots Football Weekly

The entry deals with a question that I think many of us following the NFL and Bill Belichick have wondered for years: Are Belichick’s understudies capable of recreating his organizational leadership style in other places?

Belichick’s “one-voice” approach and tight organzational measures have worked to supreme success in New England. But that success has included two very important factors – it’s taken place under Belihcick’s direction and with Tom Brady at quarterback. Winning begat winning and with more winning came a more stringent faith in the way things are run in Foxborough.

Can his disciples succeed doing things the Belichick/Patriots Way without working under Belichick, without Brady under center?

continued ...


Will be interesting to see how McDaniels and Mangini do this season and next. In a way I'm pulling for at least McDaniels to succeed, if for no other reason than to keep the haters from finding an excuse to diminish Belichick's accomplishments.

 

[K-Ro 25]

Patriots Way too tough to copy? by Andy Hart of Patriots Football Weekly

continued ...


Will be interesting to see how McDaniels and Mangini do this season and next. In a way I'm pulling for at least McDaniels to succeed, if for no other reason than to keep the haters from finding an excuse to diminish Belichick's accomplishments.

Isnt BB legacy being enhanced since its being proven one assistant at a time that they are miserable HC choices?

 

[DarrylS]

There is no denying the veracity of the article, but I would take it two steps further.. to have an owner like Bob Kraft at the helm, who does not meddle in the day to day is very positive for this team, he knows his role and has allowed BB to make decisions ... and on the other end as fans we have been spoiled and have tasted the good life, so we will probably never settle for mediocrity again..

 

[Sicilian]

Playoffs or no, we went 11-5 without Brady under center and with multiple injuries on offense AND defense. Brady is the SB winner for sure, but neither Romeo nor Mangini won 11 games in any season, so BB without Brady is STILL better than them.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I would love to see Mangini bungle into an 0-16 season, resulting in general fan rebellion, and the Browns moving to LA.

 

[feldspar]

Isnt BB legacy being enhanced since its being proven one assistant at a time that they are miserable HC choices?

Bingo. I'd have to go with this line of thought. I mean, the more his assistants fail in other places, the more people will consider him as being the key in New England. Of course being an assistant and being a Head Coach are two different things entirely. A great coordinator doesn't naturally translate into being a great Head Coach. Also, having good people can unfairly elevate your reputation. That's the nature of a team sport.

I know I've had my differences between Manning and Brady with people on this board, but I don't think people can argue against Belichick as being the best coach in the league. Some may point to Spygate as the only reason, but he pretty much asked for that IMO. It might not be true, but he asked for it.

Please note that I didn't point to Spygate by way of discrediting Belichick's accomplishments. I called him the best coach in the league.

 

[feldspar]

I would love to see Mangini bungle into an 0-16 season, resulting in general fan rebellion, and the Browns moving to LA.

Why? Cleveland deserves a team, especially with the way they support a bad one.

 

[N.Eman]

Having an Offensive mindset Coach with the right QB can do great things, but its been proven that coaches braching out from the Belichick tree have limited success, and can never duplicate what NE has and can do. We've seen Crennel go under 'cause he had no real QB, Mangini took over, basically he's in the same situation he was in NY. McD has Orton, maybe better situation. I see them have success but not as a Playoff contender

 

[BradyFTW!]

Bingo. I'd have to go with this line of thought. I mean, the more his assistants fail in other places, the more people will consider him as being the key in New England. Of course being an assistant and being a Head Coach are two different things entirely. A great coordinator doesn't naturally translate into being a great Head Coach. Also, having good people can unfairly elevate your reputation. That's the nature of a team sport.

I know I've had my differences between Manning and Brady with people on this board, but I don't think people can argue against Belichick as being the best coach in the league. Some may point to Spygate as the only reason, but he pretty much asked for that IMO. It might not be true, but he asked for it.

Please note that I didn't point to Spygate by way of discrediting Belichick's accomplishments. I called him the best coach in the league.

That relies on the assumption that failing as a head coach means you weren't a good coordinator. Head coach and coordinator are very different jobs, and some of the best coordinators out there have been forgetting, at best, as HCs. ****, Norv Turner was a hell of an OC, and look what he's done with the Chargers.

 

[efin98]

That relies on the assumption that failing as a head coach means you weren't a good coordinator. Head coach and coordinator are very different jobs, and some of the best coordinators out there have been forgetting, at best, as HCs. ****, Norv Turner was a hell of an OC, and look what he's done with the Chargers.

See Wade Phillips, **** LeBeau, Marvin Lewis for more on the decent/good coordinators struggling as head coaches.

 

[BradyFTW!]

See Wade Phillips, **** LeBeau, Marvin Lewis for more on the decent/good coordinators struggling as head coaches.

Reminds me Education of a Coach, where it recounted that back with the Jets, when Belichick was Parcells' DC after getting run out of Cleveland, Parcells and BB disagreed on what play was coming, and Parcells shouted "this is why you were as a failure as a head coach, and will always be a failure as a head coach!" or something to that effect. Ungrateful bastard. Nobody owes more to Belichick than Parcells does.

 

[efin98]

Reminds me Education of a Coach, where it recounted that back with the Jets, when Belichick was Parcells' DC after getting run out of Cleveland, Parcells and BB disagreed on what play was coming, and Parcells shouted "this is why you were as a failure as a head coach, and will always be a failure as a head coach!" or something to that effect. Ungrateful bastard. Nobody owes more to Belichick than Parcells does.

Think of it this way- that action probably had a profound impact on BB to shape how he interacts with the OC and DC...

 

[jmt57]

Reminds me Education of a Coach, where it recounted that back with the Jets, when Belichick was Parcells' DC after getting run out of Cleveland, Parcells and BB disagreed on what play was coming, and Parcells shouted "this is why you were as a failure as a head coach, and will always be a failure as a head coach!" or something to that effect. Ungrateful bastard. Nobody owes more to Belichick than Parcells does.

Think of it this way- that action probably had a profound impact on BB to shape how he interacts with the OC and DC...

And perhaps something to do with his decision to join the Pats rather than be HC of the Jets.

 

[feldspar]

Head coach and coordinator are very different jobs, and some of the best coordinators out there have been forgetting, at best, as HCs. ****, Norv Turner was a hell of an OC, and look what he's done with the Chargers.

I believe I said the same thing.

 

[patfanken]

I went from a DC to a HC on the HS level and believe me, even then, it was a rude awakening. Its a transition that no matter how well you THINK you are prepared, you won't be. I was a considered a genius by the fans my first year when a I took a good group of seniors to the first winning record in several years. I was concidered a dolt my second year when we had a losing season starting mostly sophs and jrs. The reality was I didn't have much of a clue the first year and was 3 times the HC the second year when I was concidered an idiot. Go figure.

Now if you extrapolate to the NFL think of how hard it is. Think about the complexity of the job BEYOND the Xs and Os. Liturally you are COO of a hundred million dollar operation. Its even hard than business, because everything is so transparent. You have ultimate control, but also ultimate accountablility.

I think the tight lipped straight laced thing is emphasized too much. The real success of the Pats has several more important causes. Its Bill's ability to bring in the type of player he needs to succeed. Its his ability to populate the bottom third of his roster with quality players for the most part. Its his ability to surround himself and DEVELOP quality coaches to work with. Its not just by some happenstance that the Pats coaching staff is among, if not the smallest group in the league.

Also, although there is a strict line of command, with BB at the top, he has created a feeling of autonomy within each coaches sphere of influence, so that they feel including in the decision making process. So that from the scouts to the assistants, to the coordinators, there is a true feeling that this is a team effort. One goal. For the individual coaches and trainers, its to get the players better. For the organization its to get the team better, and the end result of all of that is winning games.

I CANNOT understand why to the national media, Brady is so inclusive in this equation. Winning 11 games with a QB who hadn't started a game since HS should have been enough, but winning 11 games with the kind of injuries we had to the rest of the team should have left no doubt. While there is no question that the Pats are better with Brady, but when the day comes that he's gone, the Pats will STILL be a successful team... as long a BB is running the show.

 

[jmt57]

Patriots Way too tough to copy? by Andy Hart of Patriots Football Weekly

continued ...


Will be interesting to see how McDaniels and Mangini do this season and next. In a way I'm pulling for at least McDaniels to succeed, if for no other reason than to keep the haters from finding an excuse to diminish Belichick's accomplishments.

Isnt BB legacy being enhanced since its being proven one assistant at a time that they are miserable HC choices?

You're probably correct. I guess I was reacting to an article I read about a month ago that basically insinuated that it was Belichick's fault that McDaniels and Mangini were doomed to failure. In that story the columnist offered up the typical Belichick stereotypes: abrasive, arrogant, tactless, no people skills, etc. - and said Mangini and McDaniels were acting the same way, and therefore they were sure to lose their team. I've also heard people try to say that coaches like Tony Dungy will go down in history as being better than Belichick because Dungy's coaching tree had more success. I know, a ridiculous line of reasoning, but I figured "shut these idiots up!"

The more I think of it now though, it doesn't matter what happens; people will find a line of reasoning or statistic to back up their favorite player/coach/team or put down an opposing player/coach/team that might be better. Case in point would be the 2008 season: if the Pats do well Pats fans use that as proof that Belichick is a very good coach, while at the same time Pats haters use that as proof that Brady is just a 'system QB' and not worthy of his acclaim (and if the reverse had happened then the haters would have talked about how 'Belichick can't win without Brady'.)

To those that don't care for Belichick, if McDaniels and others do well then they will suddenly get more credit for past success of the Pats; if they don't then Belichick did not groom them well and they picked up all his worst traits.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think the point made about Bob Kraft and the relationship he's developed with BB is a valid one. Lets face it, NYJ and CLE are two clubs who really wound up catering to the GMs and not necessarily supporting the HC, there's more evidence of that in CLE, but for all we want to hate Mangini, he got raped by his GM and Owner last year (another reason he screwed up by blowing off BB's advice).

If we look at where Dimitroff, Pioli, and McDaniels have landed, we see a different approach that is much closer to the Kraft/Belichick/Pioli team concept.
-- Dimitroff went and got a HC who he can work with (and with both having CFL roots, they may have stronger ties than we know). His Owner is a little too visible for my taste, but he's also an owner that gives you a shot.
-- Pioli has brought in a HC friend who also comes from the Parcells tree and has a background in Personnel, and the Hunt family is noted for giving their GM/HC team some room to work.
-- McDaniels was backed up by his Owner when the Cutler cry-a-thon took off, we'll see how he and his GM work going forward, but Josh is in a good ownership situation.

It should be fun to watch. Year one for Dimitroff has gone surprisingly well, now he gets to wrestle expectations.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think the point made about Bob Kraft and the relationship he's developed with BB is a valid one. Lets face it, NYJ and CLE are two clubs who really wound up catering to the GMs and not necessarily supporting the HC, there's more evidence of that in CLE, but for all we want to hate Mangini, he got raped by his GM and Owner last year (another reason he screwed up by blowing off BB's advice).

If we look at where Dimitroff, Pioli, and McDaniels have landed, we see a different approach that is much closer to the Kraft/Belichick/Pioli team concept.
-- Dimitroff went and got a HC who he can work with (and with both having CFL roots, they may have stronger ties than we know). His Owner is a little too visible for my taste, but he's also an owner that gives you a shot.
-- Pioli has brought in a HC friend who also comes from the Parcells tree and has a background in Personnel, and the Hunt family is noted for giving their GM/HC team some room to work.
-- McDaniels was backed up by his Owner when the Cutler cry-a-thon took off, we'll see how he and his GM work going forward, but Josh is in a good ownership situation.

It should be fun to watch. Year one for Dimitroff has gone surprisingly well, now he gets to wrestle expectations.

Good stuff, Box. I've been watching the Chiefs and Broncos fan bases this summer, and it's been very interesting to follow, to say the least.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Good stuff, Box. I've been watching the Chiefs and Broncos fan bases this summer, and it's been very interesting to follow, to say the least.

Hahaha, that's an understatement. I can't for the life of me figure out why they're so resistant to the changes, considering that neither team was any good last year anyways.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hahaha, that's an understatement. I can't for the life of me figure out why they're so resistant to the changes, considering that neither team was any good last year anyways.

Pioli hasn't done enough because the Chiefs still have over $30 million in space, and they didn't draft Sanchez because they chose Scott Mitchell 2.0 and haven't addressed enough of the offensive line, don't have enough receivers, traded away a 32 year old tight end who wanted to be traded, shored up the linebacking corps but did it by bringing in old veterans instead of 20 year old superstars who had somehow escaped the attention of every football expert in the known world, and hired a terrible group of coaches irregardless of whether or not they were the best available given the late hiring time of Pioli. But, mostly, it's about Sanchez. They've been stung by the Grbac/Steve Bono type of moves where veterans were brought in and failed miserably. Frankly, I can't decide whether I want Sanchez to bomb so that Jets fans weep for another decade, or if I want him to be a great QB so that Chiefs fans can start leaping off of buildings and bridges.

In Denver, it's a bit different. McDaniels has ruined the franchise, made the ozone hole bigger, caused the swine flu, changed man-made global climate change from myth to fact, destroyed the aquifers in Africa and caused earthquakes all around the globe because he didn't give Cutler enough love after Jay got his panties in a bunch about Shanahan getting axed and then McD flirting with the notion of bringing in Cassel. Marshall is also his fault even though everything Marshall is complaining about happened before McDaniels even thought about joining the Broncos.