Ty Law

[PatsBoy12]

Okay, I know quite a few of you wish he would go away with all the Patriots talk involving him possibly coming back, but that's not what I want to discuss. My issue is simple, how the f*ck did Champ Bailey make the top 25 team and not Law? I acknowledge that Champ is a heck of a football player and a complete corner, but c'mon. I'm sure you all know what Law accomplished, regardless of the fact that he's a shell of himself now.

Statistically, he's better. Admittedly not by much, but still better. But far beyond statistics, look at what the guy did in the playoffs. He terrorized Peyton Manning, he is one of two players (I believe) with a pick-six in a SB, and he would consistently shut down his side of the field for many seasons, especially the playoffs where it seemed like he just took his game to another level. I'll never forget watching him pointing the exact route that Harrison was going to run and then making a ridiculous one-hand INT grab over his shoulder. How many playoff appearances has Champ Bailey even had in his career? Does none of that warrant consideration? He's been an All-Pro and Pro Bowler multiple times. I don't know. I just don't get it. Can anyone explain it to me?

 

[Patjew]

I was thinking about this. I think it has to do with the fact that Ty stopped being dominant in 2003 and Champ played at an elite level long after that.

Ty is one of my favorite players evah, but he hasn't been much of a factor for over 5 years.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I was thinking about this. I think it has to do with the fact that Ty stopped being dominant in 2003 and Champ played at an elite level long after that.

Ty is one of my favorite players evah, but he hasn't been much of a factor for over 5 years.

I hear you, and I definitely considered that too. I just thought that his playoff accomplishments would definitely have him on the list. I'm not mad that Champ is on it. I'm just mad that Champ is on it but Law isn't. If Law were on it, I wouldn't care what other corners they decided to throw on there. I just don't know how you deny a guy who has done some of the things he's done in his career, especially when it mattered most. Players become superstars in the playoffs, so I thought.

 

[spacecrime]

how the f*ck did Champ Bailey make the top 25 team and not Law?

Because Bailey's a far superior player. Law was okay, but his best year came before his big contract, then he sucked. He did okay in 2001, and had a great year in 2003.

He has cult status here. He and Lawyer Milloy both

Lawyer was a very good CB, but not among the best, as Milloy was as very good S, but not among the best.

 

[spacecrime]

Players become superstars in the playoffs, so I thought.

Well, if that is your criteria, then Desmond Howeard was the great player of the 1990's.

Superstars are dominant players week after week, year after year.

Sorry, I can tell you like Law a lot, and so do I, but face it: he isn't headed for the Hall and he isn't among the best.

 

[jmt57]

Looking at the list of players they put together I think there were certain quotas that could not be exceeded: no more than this many at this position, at least this many lineman - and in Ty Law's case, no more than this many from any one team.

For the Pats, the quota was no more than three players per team and he was the odd man out with Brady, Moss and Seymour on the list. My guess is that it may have come down to Law or Seymour and since Law wasn't that much of a factor the last few years he was out while Seymour was in.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Because Bailey's a far superior player. Law was okay, but his best year came before his big contract, then he sucked. He did okay in 2001, and had a great year in 2003.

He has cult status here. He and Lawyer Milloy both

Lawyer was a very good CB, but not among the best, as Milloy was as very good S, but not among the best.

Are you serious? Ty Law has over 50 career INT's. There was a period of 3-4 years where he was regarded as the best in the game by people outside of this board.

Well, if that is your criteria, then Desmond Howeard was the great player of the 1990's.

Superstars are dominant players week after week, year after year.

Sorry, I can tell you like Law a lot, and so do I, but face it: he isn't headed for the Hall and he isn't among the best.

I'll bet you everything in your bank account that Law is Canton-bound. You really can't be serious. There is no question that he's a shell of himself now, but he has been among the best corners in the game for years.

So Law didn't bring it week in and week out? Besides, I never said a superstar didn't perform week in and week out. When you watch sports, however, players make a name for themselves in the playoffs. Was anyone talking about Dwight Howard before this year's playoffs in the NBA (other than the dunk contest)? Why am I even wasting my time? Tell you what, I'll take an average player who can perform and make big plays during playoff time over a far superior athlete with one playoff appearance in the last decade.

 

[drew4008]

Because Bailey's a far superior player.

That about sums it up. Dumb thread.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Looking at the list of players they put together I think there were certain quotas that could not be exceeded: no more than this many at this position, at least this many lineman - and in Ty Law's case, no more than this many from any one team.

For the Pats, the quota was no more than three players per team and he was the odd man out with Brady, Moss and Seymour on the list. My guess is that it may have come down to Law or Seymour and since Law wasn't that much of a factor the last few years he was out while Seymour was in.

Interesting point. Seymour has continued to play at a high level. I definitely think Law didn't make the list because he hasn't played well the past two or three seasons. Age definitely crept up on him quick. However, I whole-heartedly reject any notion that Law wasn't among the best corners in the league during his career. I watched quarterbacks completely disregard his side of the field during both regular season and playoff games. Peyton Manning even offered to deliver Law's induction into the HOF.

 

[PatsBoy12]

That about sums it up. Dumb thread.

'Preciate it.

 

[Patjew]

Interesting point. Seymour has continued to play at a high level. I definitely think Law didn't make the list because he hasn't played well the past two or three seasons. Age definitely crept up on him quick. However, I whole-heartedly reject any notion that Law wasn't among the best corners in the league during his career. I watched quarterbacks completely disregard his side of the field during both regular season and playoff games. Peyton Manning even offered to deliver Law's induction into the HOF.

If his career ended in 2003 this would be a correct statement.

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you serious? Ty Law has over 50 career INT's. There was a period of 3-4 years where he was regarded as the best in the game by people outside of this board.

Ty Law was only voted first team All Pro twice in his career. I'm not sure where you're coming up with your logic on this. Perhaps you could show us the evidence.

 

[eagle eye]

Ty Law was only voted first team All Pro twice in his career. I'm not sure where you're coming up with your logic on this. Perhaps you could show us the evidence.

Well all I can say is that we have lost out in a few huge games since his departure. Remember Asante Samuel getting that pass interference call against the Broncos just before halftime.

Remember the AFC Championship game against the Colts where Hobbs got called for interference in the end zone and of course in 07/08 SB when we gave up a late one to lose the game. I'm not saying we would have won both games but Law would have made a difference in one of the two and we'd have four SBs because if it was in the AFC game we'd have went on and beaten the Bears.

For me he was superb and definitely belongs on that list. Its the very same as the Brady vs Manning argument, when its clutch Ty Law is the guy you want and thats not berating Champ Bailey either but Law has done in when the heat is one more than any other corner.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Ty Law was only voted first team All Pro twice in his career. I'm not sure where you're coming up with your logic on this. Perhaps you could show us the evidence.

So what? Brady's only been voted first team All Pro once, so that right there tells you exactly how meaningful that is.

 

[Deus Irae]

So what? Brady's only been voted first team All Pro once, so that right there tells you exactly how meaningful that is.

Perhaps you could show us the evidence.

Did you miss that part, both when you read my post and when you quoted it? First team All Pro for a corner would mean that you were considered to be one of the two best cornerbacks in the league by the selectors of that particular version of the award. Since Law only made it on the list in 2 seasons, there's not enough evidence just there to validate the poster's assertion.

Hence the request for the evidence.

 

[Patjew]

Well all I can say is that we have lost out in a few huge games since his departure. Remember Asante Samuel getting that pass interference call against the Broncos just before halftime.

Remember the AFC Championship game against the Colts where Hobbs got called for interference in the end zone and of course in 07/08 SB when we gave up a late one to lose the game. I'm not saying we would have won both games but Law would have made a difference in one of the two and we'd have four SBs because if it was in the AFC game we'd have went on and beaten the Bears.

For me he was superb and definitely belongs on that list. Its the very same as the Brady vs Manning argument, when its clutch Ty Law is the guy you want and thats not berating Champ Bailey either but Law has done in when the heat is one more than any other corner.

Bailey's performance over the decade as a whole has been superior.

 

[livinginthe past]

I'm guessing alot of the debate on this -All-Decade team is due to people being unsure of the criteria.

Some seem to think thats its the best player at that position who happened to play some part of his career in this decade.

Others think that its the player who has performed consistently the best at that position since 2000.

Its my opinion that they are generally looking at the latter definition, which is where Law falls down.

Bailey has been better, for longer, this decade.

Truly speaking we arent even at the end of this decade yet and Law has been a non factor for years.

Thats not to say Law wasn't a great player, a clutch performer, over a certain period of his career.

He'll always be a Patriot great in my mind and i'll take that over some fabricated ESPN award.

 

[fair catch fryar]

I'm guessing alot of the debate on this -All-Decade team is due to people being unsure of the criteria.

Some seem to think thats its the best player at that position who happened to play some part of his career in this decade.

Others think that its the player who has performed consistently the best at that position since 2000.

Its my opinion that they are generally looking at the latter definition, which is where Law falls down.

Bailey has been better, for longer, this decade.

Truly speaking we arent even at the end of this decade yet and Law has been a non factor for years.

Thats not to say Law wasn't a great player, a clutch performer, over a certain period of his career.

He'll always be a Patriot great in my mind and i'll take that over

some fabricated ESPN award

.

Precisely, and we all know that ESPN knows how to fabricate with the best of 'em.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Ty Law was only voted first team All Pro twice in his career. I'm not sure where you're coming up with your logic on this. Perhaps you could show us the evidence.

I never stated an exact number of times he was voted to the All-Pro team so I have no idea what evidence you're talking about. It's funny how so many people make any "assertion" they want providing nothing but opinion and conjecture, then those same people turn around and want evidence of some sort. The evidence is in the plays he's made. The evidence is his playoff performances (plural). The evidence is All-Pro quarterbacks admitting that there have been times they stayed away from him. That's certainly evidence enough for me.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I'm guessing alot of the debate on this -All-Decade team is due to people being unsure of the criteria.

Some seem to think thats its the best player at that position who happened to play some part of his career in this decade.

Others think that its the player who has performed consistently the best at that position since 2000.

Its my opinion that they are generally looking at the latter definition, which is where Law falls down.

Bailey has been better, for longer, this decade.

Truly speaking we arent even at the end of this decade yet and Law has been a non factor for years.

Thats not to say Law wasn't a great player, a clutch performer, over a certain period of his career.

He'll always be a Patriot great in my mind and i'll take that over some fabricated ESPN award.

Good explanation. Finally something that makes some sense to me. Thanks for breaking it down. I admit that I'm somewhat guilty of what you talk in the post. Thanks. Again, I was never saying that Bailey didn't belong on the list, as I feel that's what many gleaned from my initial post. I just couldn't understand how someone with some of Law's credentials could not be on the list. However, when you state it the way you did, it makes a lot more sense now.