Nice discussion of the rookies from Scout.com (public article)

[AzPatsFan]

The Pats defense is heading in the right direction, but far from finishing touches. Sure their O-line sucks, but how is their D-line falling apart?

The only good Steeler Defensive lineman is almost as old a Willie McGinnest; and there is no one on the horizon to replace him.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Your argument is terrible. Everybody in defense of BB says the same thing. First, he coached the Giants. I'm not talking about the Giants, I'm talking about the Patriots. Also, was BB in charge of drafting guys like Harry Carson, Carl Banks and Lawrence Taylor? If he wasn't, it makes your argument even worse. Second, "But he's won 3 super bowls with older unheralded LB's". Thanks for the great insight. Since 2005, their LB's have been regressing and BB has drafted 2 LB's in the first 3 rounds since. Mayo is a good start but Crable is a question mark. Even any moron on the street can tell you that the LB's are what makes the 3-4 go. For a team that has had the least amount of holes on their roster since 2004, it should've have been a cake walk to replace their LB's.

Belichick had to spend the 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 offseasons rebuilding the Offense, if you hadn't noticed, Bro. Belichick has had to rebuild every squad on the Patriots since he arrived in 2000. His initial construction of the LB corps in 200-2001, has had augmentation until 2007-2008 offseason.

I fully believe that the LB corps is pretty good, even is some youngsters haven't made their marks fully. Mayo, Woods, Crabel, Guyton, and even Redd, all have ideal size, and either truly rare, (all but...), or only good (Woods), speed & size. All save Redd, have shown flashes of talent. I didn't even include the high draft pick, smart & talented, Tyrone McKenzie among the newcomers, but he is out for the year, just like a vet from mid-decade. He would be the sixth youngster to go with three vet starters, Adalius, Paris and Tedy.

Just how many youngsters can you groom simultaneously? The Pats F. O. had lots of opportunities to draft more LBs than the single high pick, they used this draft. Many have said they appear non-chalant; and they did freely trade Mike Vrabel. Everyone has speculated that they have seen lots in practice that we haven't seen yet, and I agree.

Despite your memories of the mid-decade Patriots LB corps, it seldom consisted of more than 5 available good players for four positions. By today's standard that is extraordinarily thin. On paper they had six, but every year one guy was out for the year, TJ bicep, then Tedy stroke, then Rosey hip.

Further proof that they are putting finishing touches on the LB corps rebuilding, is that Belichick is already starting to address the next rebuilding job, the Offensive line.

It is fine now, and will be so for a few more years. But he is already starting to obtain a next generation of Linemen to groom for that day, a few seasons from now. Volmer, Ohrnberger and Bussey, as well as freeing Nick Kaczur to move inside, are the beginning foundation of the next generation O-line...

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I fully believe that the LB corps is pretty good, even is some youngsters haven't made their marks fully. Mayo, Woods, Crable, Guyton, and even Redd, all have ideal size, and either truly rare, (all but...), or only good (Woods), speed & size. All save Redd, have shown flashes of talent. I didn't even include the high draft pick, smart & talented, Tyrone McKenzie among the newcomers, but he is out for the year, just like a vet from mid-decade. He would be the sixth youngster to go with three vet starters, Adalius, Paris and Tedy.

Thanks for mentioning McKenzie because I forgot about him being taken in the 3rd round. That makes it 3 LB's taken in the first three rounds since BB has been head coach.

The only good Steeler Defensive lineman is almost as old a Willie McGinnest; and there is no one on the horizon to replace him.

Who is their only good D-lineman? Last time I checked, Aaron Smith (age 31) is a very good DE and Casey Hampton (age 33) is one of the best NT's in the game. Brett Keisel (age 30) is a decent DE. They drafted Ziggy Hood in the 1st round of this year's draft.

Willie McGinest is 37 years old. I'm not sure what roster your looking at.

Funny thing how it's the DL that makes the Patriots' 3-4 go, though.

Because that is all they have. When a team has to depend on a 3-4 DE to produce a pass rush, that's pretty pathetic.

Bro

Might want to check the age and recent injuries for that D-line. All are at or around 30 with injuries. It's a window thing.

Besides can anyone really say that the vaunted Steelers defense would ever keep Brady and Co under 30 points? The Cardinals offense tooled them all over the field. Too bad the 30th ranked defense on a 9-7 team couldn't get it done.

Check my responses again. I already mentioned that the Patriots are the one team that the Steelers defense can't hang with.

 

[apple strudel]

Because that is all they have. When a team has to depend on a 3-4 DE to produce a pass rush, that's pretty pathetic.

1) OLBs do a lot more than rush the passer.
2) We're 1 year removed from having the 2nd most sacks in the NFL.

DL is by far the most important part of a 2 gap 3-4. Great OLBs are fantastic to have, but also hard to get. Also bear in mind that BB knows exactly how to evaluate them: he had DeMarcus Ware rated as the best player in his draft. I'm sure you're just trying to stimulate conversation (being generous here), but your point is completely whack.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

1) OLBs do a lot more than rush the passer.
2) We're 1 year removed from having the 2nd most sacks in the NFL.

DL is by far the most important part of a 2 gap 3-4. Great OLBs are fantastic to have, but also hard to get. Also bear in mind that BB knows exactly how to evaluate them: he had DeMarcus Ware rated as the best player in his draft. I'm sure you're just trying to stimulate conversation (being generous here), but your point is completely whack.

Really? 2007 is skewed because opposing teams offenses became predictable by throwing the ball the entire game. When teams are able to have a balanced offense against the Pats (2008), it was harder for them to get after the QB.

 

[apple strudel]

Really? 2007 is skewed because opposing teams offenses became predictable by throwing the ball the entire game. When teams are able to have a balanced offense against the Pats (2008), it was harder for them to get after the QB.

Yeah and 2008 is skewed by the guy BB scouted and signed getting old and the other guy BB scouted and signed breaking the crap out of his arm. Oh yeah, and the solid cover corner BB drafted leaving for big bucks. Your point is completely whack. BB knows exactly what makes a good OLB and how to get them both by paying FA dollars, drafting them in the middle rounds, drafting them late, or (based on how he evaluated Ware) how to draft them early. The guy's not perfect, but compared to your argument he just discovered homomorphic cryptography.

 

[Patjew]

Really? 2007 is skewed because opposing teams offenses became predictable by throwing the ball the entire game. When teams are able to have a balanced offense against the Pats (2008), it was harder for them to get after the QB.

It wasn't only that. The 2007 LB crew was very good. You make it sound like the LB's were crap after 2004 and BB never bothered rebuilding it. A unit consisting of Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi, Seau and Vrabel is more-than-solid. That group was no embarassment; they made the cover of SI FWIW. Colvin's injury hurt them, but that unit and the D as a whole played very well, especially in the playoffs.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Why are you all continuing to entertain some of the more ridiculous notions? None of the back-and-forth is going to change his mind. He clearly feels that the LB's were trash after 2004 and BB knows nothing about how to evaluate new LB talent. Apparently, he's reserving his expertise for the right team to ring his phone and offer him a head coaching job so he can show BB how it's done.

 

[Patjew]

Why are you all continuing to entertain some of the more ridiculous notions? None of the back-and-forth is going to change his mind. He clearly feels that the LB's were trash after 2004 and BB knows nothing about how to evaluate new LB talent. Apparently, he's reserving his expertise for the right team to ring his phone and offer him a head coaching job so he can show BB how it's done.

There's not much else to talk about, especially since the rap thread died away.

 

[ausbacker]

It's some comments in threads like these that you truly understand the implications of success and the expectations in some people's heads of what should be instead of what is.

It's not called elite sport for nothing. Nothing is easy and more often than not takes time.

 

[PatsBoy12]

There's not much else to talk about, especially since the rap thread died away.

That one went strong for a good while. It's almost hard to believe its reign may have ended.

 

[jays52]

Self reminder: After morning coffee, dip, bring laptop in for AM deuce. Proceed to write lengthy, highly technical analysis explaining the requirements for each defense. Make fun of the 1-gap 34. Explain the concept behind the Belichick 34. Make self seem far more intelligent than I actually am. Serve atrocious, uneducated opinions.


Others reminder: Getcha popcorn ready.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Why are you all continuing to entertain some of the more ridiculous notions? None of the back-and-forth is going to change his mind. He clearly feels that the LB's were trash after 2004 and BB knows nothing about how to evaluate new LB talent. Apparently, he's reserving his expertise for the right team to ring his phone and offer him a head coaching job so he can show BB how it's done.

Yes, I would show him how it's done.

It wasn't only that. The 2007 LB crew was very good. You make it sound like the LB's were crap after 2004 and BB never bothered rebuilding it. A unit consisting of Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi, Seau and Vrabel is more-than-solid. That group was no embarassment; they made the cover of SI FWIW. Colvin's injury hurt them, but that unit and the D as a whole played very well, especially in the playoffs.

I didn't know there were two Vrabel's on the team.

Yeah and 2008 is skewed by the guy BB scouted and signed getting old and the other guy BB scouted and signed breaking the crap out of his arm.

Who is the old guy you're talking about? Is the second guy Adalius Thomas?

Oh yeah, and the solid cover corner BB drafted leaving for big bucks.

That so called "cover corner", hardly covered anybody. Samuel is a zone guy, anticipating throws coming near him. He stands 5-10 off the line of scrimmage on almost every play because he can't jam anybody. He's not a lock down, one on one type of corner. However, he was better than the trash New England had in 2008.

BB knows exactly what makes a good OLB and how to get them both by paying FA dollars, drafting them in the middle rounds, drafting them late, or (based on how he evaluated Ware) how to draft them early.

Who the f*** cares how he evaluated Ware? He didn't draft him. Who did BB draft in the middle and late rounds that were good? Banta-Cain? Wow! BB got a good one in Mayo, but Crable is a question mark and who knows if Guyton can become a full time starter.

Yeah BB has hit the jackpot in FA with the likes of Monty Beisel, Chad Brown and Victor Hobson. Because of Colvin's injury in 2003, he really never panned out like we expected. However, he played well enough. Finally, the jury is still out on Adalius Thomas. The only LB's that were FA's and succeeded with BB were Mike Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Brian Cox and Seau. The only problem was, 3 out of the 4 LB's didn't last long with the team.

There's not much else to talk about, especially since the rap thread died away.

What is the rap thread? Can somebody help me out?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Yes, I would show him how's it done.

And I'm sure he'd show you how to properly construct your retort. Seriously, though, kudos to you for sticking to what you believe, however valid or invalid your points may be.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

And I'm sure he'd show you how to properly construct your retort. Seriously, though, kudos to you for sticking to what you believe, however valid or invalid your points may be.

I don't know what your talking about.

 

[jays52]

Finally, the jury is still out on Adalius Thomas.

That really says all I need to know. Do you really believe this or just saying it for hyperbole?

 

[PatsBoy12]

I don't know what your talking about.

Re-read your sentence . . .

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re-read your sentence . . .

I just saw it, my bad.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I just saw it, my bad.

No worries.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

That really says all I need to know. Do you really believe this or just saying it for hyperbole?

Yes, I really believe this. In my opinion, he has been a disappointment and robbed the Patriots. From his slow start in 2008 to him not finishing off Eli in the super bowl. Had he sacked Eli before his miracle throw, he would have earned his money.