Left vs. Right, Strong vs. Weak

[mgteich]

I'd say that you did a pretty good job except for expecting Redd to wipe out Banta-Cain.

I'd say:

LE: Warren/Wright
NT: Wilfork/Brace
RE: Seymour/Green

LOLB: Woods/Redd
SILB: Bruschi/Guyton
WILB: Mayo/Lenon
ROLB: Thomas/Crable

LCB: Bodden/Butler
RCB: Springs/Wheatley
SS: Sanders/Chung
WS: Meriweather

 

[Metaphors]

An X is the split end, the wide receiver who plays on the line because he is usually on the weak side of the formation; there is no TE on the line so he is able to be on it. This is currently Moss, and formerly Givens.

A Z is the flanker, the wide receiver who plays off the line because he is on the strong side and there is already a TE on the line. This is currently Welker, and formerly Branch.

The X receiver needs to be strong enough and/or skilled enough to beat the jam from a corner. The Z needs to be quick enough to get into his route starting from off the LOS and is often in motion in a 2 WR set. In a 3 WR set, the slot/Y receiver plays like a flanker just in a tighter formation.

Welker is the easiest one to designate. He is a prototype slot reciever...and you wouldn't want him outside as a flanker very often since he typically gives the QB an immediate, easy, safe throw in the middle of the field.

Galloway has played both split end and flanker, which I would expect to continue with the Pats. He isn't overly big but is strong enough to play on the line. Press coverage is risky against him since if you whiff, he will be long gone (and the safety help will be shading Moss).

Moss has the skills to play anywhere. I would imagine that Moss and Galloway will interchange between X and Z based on matchups. If Galloway stays healthy, a TE emerges to compliment Welker's middle routes and Maroney becomes a threat as a receiver (all significant if's), I'm not sure how you keep this offense out of the end zone.

 

[mgteich]

I'll "settle" for a steady diet of Brady, Moss, Galloway, Welker, Taylor and Baker. The key as always is good line play.

The X receiver needs to be strong enough and/or skilled enough to beat the jam from a corner. The Z needs to be quick enough to get into his route starting from off the LOS and is often in motion in a 2 WR set. In a 3 WR set, the slot/Y receiver plays like a flanker just in a tighter formation.

Welker is the easiest one to designate. He is a prototype slot reciever...and you wouldn't want him outside as a flanker very often since he typically gives the QB an immediate, easy, safe throw in the middle of the field.

Galloway has played both split end and flanker, which I would expect to continue with the Pats. He isn't overly big but is strong enough to play on the line. Press coverage is risky against him since if you whiff, he will be long gone (and the safety help will be shading Moss).

Moss has the skills to play anywhere. I would imagine that Moss and Galloway will interchange between X and Z based on matchups. If Galloway stays healthy, a TE emerges to compliment Welker's middle routes and Maroney becomes a threat as a receiver (all significant if's), I'm not sure how you keep this offense out of the end zone.

 

[Dragda]

I always thought of Mike, Sam and Will referring to a 4-3 (Mike=Middle LB, Sam=Strong side LB, and Will=Weak side LB), but not having as much relevance to a 3-4 defense; perhaps one of the other x's-and-o's guys here can either back me up or shoot me out of the water?

I think the Patriots call the LB who has strong side "Money"

 

[pats1]

Note that all pre-season last year Woods played LOLB, in the Vrabel role, while Vrabel was out.
Last year Thomas played ROLB until he was injured.

Based on their strengths, I would expect Woods to start at LOLB and Thomas at ROLB. Crable is more of a ROLB, based on his college experience - better pass rusher than run-stopper. Given his size, I'd guess Redd would play more at LOLB.

Also last year Harrison started at the in-the-box safety role, and Meriweather replaced him. We saw Meriweather coming up in the blitz in the last game, like Harrison used to. So, last year Sanders was the WS and Meriweather the SS. However, I agree that their more natural positions are reversed.

I'd guess that Lenon might sub in for both Bruschi and Mayo. He's probably a more natural WILB, like Mayo, but Mayo will come off the field a lot less than Bruschi.

I'd say:

LE: Warren/Wright
NT: Wilfork/Brace
RE: Seymour/Green

LOLB: Woods/Redd
SILB: Bruschi/Guyton
WILB: Mayo/Lenon
ROLB: Thomas/Crable

LCB: Bodden/Butler
RCB: Springs/Wheatley
SS: Sanders/Chung
WS: Meriweather

They were not, I reviewed tape from the Cardinals and Bills games, and Sanders was the SS, Meriweather was the WS. But the Pats, without Rodney, didn't often have a SS in the box (more of a cover 5), so it was strictly SS vs. WS, not SS (box) vs. FS.

My only concern with Woods is whether is able to set the edge against the TE on the run. Given Thomas' size, I think he would be better suited to do that.

 

[Pats726]

it was late, u are of course correct, thank you for pointing out my mistake

Just wanted to get it correct that is all...I KNOW about writing late...and what can happen..

 

[Pats726]

A really good Xs Os thread...wish there were more of these than OTHER types...always great for a REAL football discussion.
It's interesting that most teams are right handed...run more to the right than left...The 70s Pats were odd in being left handed...with Hannah making the big holes on the left... Seems with Mankins a bit of the same..although it's only tendencies..and a team usually runs to both sides.....
Some corners are better against the run...so would be better on te strong side..but many corners can play both left right...it needs to be noted that Samuel played only one side and really could not the other..for whatever reason..

 

[Wretch]

In this year's defense...

LE: Warren
NT: Wilfork
RE: Seymour

LOLB: Thomas
SILB: Bruschi/Guyton
WILB: Mayo
ROLB: Woods/Crable

LCB: Springs
RCB: Bodden
SS: Sanders/Chung
WS: Meriweather

What are the odds that Thomas moves back inside assuming Crable can handle the LOLB responsibilities?

 

[Bring Back Antowain!]

Question about the receivers.

I understand the X receiver. Randy Moss. Split end, on the line, etc, etc.

I understand the Y receiver, the flanker. Off the line, a slot guy. Welker.

But the Patriots run a three receiver base set. If the Patriots have two backs, isn't there another split end who is on the other side? Would this be the Y receiver?

And what about a 4 receiver set? There has to be two split ends and two slot guys... so how does the nomenclature work for that?

Great thread.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Mods. Could we please sticky this thread so novices and wannabes like myself can refer to it when the season starts and can put some of this stuff to practical use while watching games. I love reading this stuff and hope to have a much better understanding by then and would hate to see it get lost in the bone-yard of old threads and discussions come September.

This is a great thread!

 

[pats1]

Question about the receivers.

I understand the X receiver. Randy Moss. Split end, on the line, etc, etc.

I understand the Y receiver, the flanker. Off the line, a slot guy. Welker.

But the Patriots run a three receiver base set. If the Patriots have two backs, isn't there another split end who is on the other side? Would this be the Y receiver?

And what about a 4 receiver set? There has to be two split ends and two slot guys... so how does the nomenclature work for that?

Great thread.

The fourth WR would be the F (or the third WR if it is a 3 WR/1 TE set, which is a lot more likely in the Pats' offense than a 3 WR/2 RB set). The RB is H.

 

[pats1]

What are the odds that Thomas moves back inside assuming Crable can handle the LOLB responsibilities?

Not unless Bruschi gets hurt.

 

[ALP]

The fourth WR would be the F (or the third WR if it is a 3 WR/1 TE set, which is a lot more likely in the Pats' offense than a 3 WR/2 RB set). The RB is H.

and, if memory serves, the #3 WR is called Z, usually the slot guy

 

[mgteich]

When I googled, I found

X split end, playing on the line (usually left side, with TE on the right side)

Y slot back, our Wes Welker

Z flanker, the speed man

Since the split end is almost always on the field, I would think that Moss would be our slit end, with Galloway as the flanker who would take the safety pressure off Moss is three WR sets.

 

[miDeuce]

X split end, playing on the line (usually left side, with TE on the right side)

Y slot back, our Wes Welker

Z flanker, the speed man

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[pats1]

and, if memory serves, the #3 WR is called Z, usually the slot guy

When I googled, I found

X split end, playing on the line (usually left side, with TE on the right side)

Y slot back, our Wes Welker

Z flanker, the speed man

Since the split end is almost always on the field, I would think that Moss would be our slit end, with Galloway as the flanker who would take the safety pressure off Moss is three WR sets.

In a 3-WR set, the Pats usually have a TE on the field, not a second RB. Therefore, the 3rd WR is the F, and you are right, the guy in the slot is often the Z.

 

[jacigar]

Great thread, It would be nice to extend it with the DB responsibilities as more receivers are added to the offense. The definitions for cover2(etc) and expected db's in each situation. Would like to hear opinions on this.

 

[Wretch]

Not unless Bruschi gets hurt.

I think it's evident, as much as we love him, that Bruschi isn't a 3 down player any more and AD started his time with the Pats on the inside, beside Bruschi, when Rosie was outside. Does Crable project to be any worse than Rosie was at the end with the Pats?

What happens to AD if TBC plays on passing downs? What would have happened to AD if we had picked up JT or Peppers? Then what happens to Guyton on passing downs, does AD come off the filed?

 

[BradyManny]

I think it's evident, as much as we love him, that Bruschi isn't a 3 down player any more and AD started his time with the Pats on the inside, beside Bruschi, when Rosie was outside. Does Crable project to be any worse than Rosie was at the end with the Pats?

What happens to AD if TBC plays on passing downs? What would have happened to AD if we had picked up JT or Peppers? Then what happens to Guyton on passing downs, does AD come off the filed?

AD is probably going to play more downs than anyone else in the front 7 b/c he can do just about everything. They can move him around depending on the # of LBs in a given package.

If they determine we have the depth, AD at SILB [for the base defense only] is probably the best upgrade we could make on this D - but moving him might leave too big a gap to fill at OLB, so we might be stuck w Bruschi in the base D.

 

[Wretch]

AD is probably going to play more downs than anyone else in the front 7 b/c he can do just about everything. They can move him around depending on the # of LBs in a given package.

If they determine we have the depth, AD at SILB [for the base defense only] is probably the best upgrade we could make on this D - but moving him might leave too big a gap to fill at OLB, so we might be stuck w Bruschi in the base D.

I agree that moving AD might leave too big a gap. That is why I prefaced the thought of moving AD inside with the comment about Crable being able to handle the OLB responsibilities in an earlier post.