Not Much Camp Competition On the Defense

[mgteich]

There will be competition for reps and even for starting positions, but limited competition for roster spots.

BOTTOM LINE
We have only 29 players competing for 24-25 roster spots. Given the normal number of injuries, there is almost no competition. Without additions to the squad, whoever is healthy among these 29 may end up making the 53-man roster.

DEFENSIVE LINE
Presuming no cuts or trades, the only question is whether we keep Smith as our #7 DL on on the 53 man roster.

OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
Presuming no additions, we are set with Thomas, Woods, Crable, Banta-Cain and Redd.

INSIDE LINEBACKER
The 4th ILB spot is available, if it hasn't been replaced by the 7th DL position. Appleby and Alexander are competing for the spot.

CORNER
all set

#9 DEFENSIVE BACK
McGowan, Tank Williams, Spann and Richardson are the competitors for this position. We could carry ten defensive backs.

 

[MetalBleachers]

What about starting? Won't there be competition to see who starts?

How can you say CBs are "all set"? Who are the starting corners?

 

[mgteich]

Yes, there will be competition for starting positions and number of reps. However, I see little competition for roster spots.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

This is pretty much how I see it.

Spot-on analysis, MG!

 

[nflfan07]

Thats pretty much how I see it as well. The Defense should be stout!!

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

The fact that there is only 29 competing for 24-25 spots is not a good thing. Especially when you consider the reps for the training camp and preseason games and the age of some of the defensive players.

I really find it pretty incredible that this is all we have. Seems like they are setting themselves up for more injuries without more training camp/pre season game fodder to soak up the reps.

 

[Gunnails]

I thought I had read that the Pats are carrying more players at the moment then any other team, lots of 09 draft picks. Teams are allowed to have 80 players under contract. I think I am missing something.

 

[Deus Irae]

I thought I had read that the Pats are carrying more players at the moment then any other team, lots of 09 draft picks. Teams are allowed to have 80 players under contract. I think I am missing something.

The draftees haven't signed yet, so they aren't actually under contract.

 

[Jimke]

The fact that there is only 29 competing for 24-25 spots is not a good thing. Especially when you consider the reps for the training camp and preseason games and the age of some of the defensive players.

I really find it pretty incredible that this is all we have. Seems like they are setting themselves up for more injuries without more training camp/pre season game fodder to soak up the reps.

There are currently 39 defensive players on the roster including

McKenzie. They are thin at linebacker with 12 healthy candidates

for nine spots.

 

[mgteich]

I agree...........

The fact that there is only 29 competing for 24-25 spots is not a good thing. Especially when you consider the reps for the training camp and preseason games and the age of some of the defensive players.

I really find it pretty incredible that this is all we have. Seems like they are setting themselves up for more injuries without more training camp/pre season game fodder to soak up the reps.

 

[mgteich]

I indicated that only 29 were really competing for ROSTER spots. You indiacte 39. I don't count Ventrone because as last year, I list him as a WR as the team did. That leaves nine that I have excluded.

The nine I excluded I don't think have a ghost of a chance at a roster spot without at least a couple of injuries at their position. There are competing for Practice Squad spots. Do you disagree?

DL Adams, Pryor, Richard, Kenny Smith, Steve Williams
S McClinton
CB Love
LB Craig, Ciurciu

There are currently 39 defensive players on the roster including

McKenzie. They are thin at linebacker with 12 healthy candidates

for nine spots.

 

[Jimke]

I indicated that only 29 were really competing for ROSTER spots. You indiacte 39. I don't count Ventrone because as last year, I list him as a WR as the team did. That leaves nine that I have excluded.

The nine I excluded I don't think have a ghost of a chance at a roster spot without at least a couple of injuries at their position. There are competing for Practice Squad spots. Do you disagree?

DL Adams, Pryor, Richard, Kenny Smith, Steve Williams
S McClinton
CB Love
LB Craig, Ciurciu

I agree with you. In fact, I think the only spot that is really

up for grabs is the 9th linebacker.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. I think McGowan has the last safety spot. If Tank makes the roster it will be by taking the 9th LB spot, and that roster spot is only there because of an injury to McKenzie. Even at this last spot, Alexander has to be the favorite. Wasn't he re-signed for just such a contingency?

I agree with you. In fact, I think the only spot that is really

up for grabs is the 9th linebacker.

 

[mayoclinic]

The fact that there is only 29 competing for 24-25 spots is not a good thing. Especially when you consider the reps for the training camp and preseason games and the age of some of the defensive players.

I really find it pretty incredible that this is all we have. Seems like they are setting themselves up for more injuries without more training camp/pre season game fodder to soak up the reps.

You've got to be kidding. We have some of the best quality depth that we've ever had, and you think it is a bad thing?

Let's look at who is currently signed on defense (according to Miguel's roster list), with likely starters in bold and likely roster spots underlined:

DT (5): Vince Wilfork, Ron Brace, LeKevin Smith, Myron Pryor, Darryl Richard, Steve Williams
DE (5): Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Mike Wright, Kenny Smith
OLB (6): Adalius Thomas, Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable, Vince Redd, Tully Banta-Cain, Angelo Craig
ILB (6): Jerod Mayo, Gary Guyton, Tedy Bruschi, Eric Alexander, Antonio Appelby, Vinny Ciurciu
S (6): Brandon Meriweather, James Sanders, Patrick Chung, Tank Williams/Brandon McGowan, Brandon McGowan/Tank Williams, Ray Ventrone
CB(8): Leigh Bodden, Shawn Springs, Darius Butler, Terrance Wheatley, Jonathan Wilhite, Mike Richardson, Antwain Spann, Jamar Love

So we currently have 36 defensive players going in to training camp assuming no new signings. We likely have 25 defensive spots, and 23 of those are pretty much set. So there's 13 players competing for about 2 roster spots, barring some surprises. Some of those players have been good enough to earn roster spots in the post (LeKevin Smith, Alexander, Ray Ventrone, Antwain Spann, Mike Richardson, Tank Williams.

One more quality body at OLB and one more at ILB would be nice, but otherwise it's hard for me to imagine us being in better shape than we currently are. There are plenty of young bodies to take reps and show what they have and save some of the older vets from too much wear and tear, if that is your concern.

 

[BTTA]

Competition to make the team, no, it shouldn't be as tough as in the past. Competition for playing time? It will be tougher in the defensive backfield and linebacking core than it has been in years.

Competition in the OL and among the RB's will be tougher than it has been in long time, as well.

This will be a very spirited camp, and I'd wager that the coaching staff has built this depth in part to stoke the fires.

 

[mgteich]

You have missed the point entirely. Depth is great. Competition for roster spots is great. Having competitors who are cut almost as good as those who made it is great. Just look at our offense. There is at least one open roster positions at every position, every one: QB, RB, WR, TE, OT, and OG. And there are plenty competitors for each spot, not only camp fodder, but actual high quality competitors. The offense will be AWESOME yet again!!
=====================================
You have gone over the edge with regard to the defense in your harangue. As you say all the roster spots are filled but two. I have McGowan as having filled the safety spot. I have Tank competing for the last ILB spot with everyone else. I think that a free agent will get the roster spot, but I have penciled in Alexander.
==========================================
We basically have all the roster spots set .

1) WE HAVE NO COMPETITION for roster spots, and you think that this is good. It is good for players to be guaranteed a spot unless they break a leg??????
2) WE HAVE ALMOST NO ONE AVAILABLE in case of injuries except for the hangers on and Practice Squad players who would likely be a large reduction in effectiveness.
============================================
We have a fine roster. Let's start the season now. On the defense, we cannot afford any injuries.
====================================================

You've got to be kidding. We have some of the best quality depth that we've ever had, and you think it is a bad thing?

Let's look at who is currently signed on defense (according to Miguel's roster list), with likely starters in bold and likely roster spots underlined:

DT (5): Vince Wilfork, Ron Brace, LeKevin Smith, Myron Pryor, Darryl Richard, Steve Williams
DE (5): Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Mike Wright, Kenny Smith
OLB (6): Adalius Thomas, Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable, Vince Redd, Tully Banta-Cain, Angelo Craig
ILB (6): Jerod Mayo, Gary Guyton, Tedy Bruschi, Eric Alexander, Antonio Appelby, Vinny Ciurciu
S (6): Brandon Meriweather, James Sanders, Patrick Chung, Tank Williams/Brandon McGowan, Brandon McGowan/Tank Williams, Ray Ventrone
CB(8): Leigh Bodden, Shawn Springs, Darius Butler, Terrance Wheatley, Jonathan Wilhite, Mike Richardson, Antwain Spann, Jamar Love

So we currently have 36 defensive players going in to training camp assuming no new signings. We likely have 25 defensive spots, and 23 of those are pretty much set. So there's 13 players competing for about 2 roster spots, barring some surprises. Some of those players have been good enough to earn roster spots in the post (LeKevin Smith, Alexander, Ray Ventrone, Antwain Spann, Mike Richardson, Tank Williams.

One more quality body at OLB and one more at ILB would be nice, but otherwise it's hard for me to imagine us being in better shape than we currently are. There are plenty of young bodies to take reps and show what they have and save some of the older vets from too much wear and tear, if that is your concern.

 

[mgteich]

Let's be clear. You listed 35 defensive players (not counting Ventrone who will compete for one of the offensive spots as he did last year. IMHO, every one of the ten is a significant reduction in quality from those listed in the now obvious roster. Things will change. Injuries will happen. The offense might get one of the positions (for example, the open ILB position). Perhaps we might have to count on one of the ten in case of injury. For example, last year Hobson failed, there was no one else, and Guyton seized the opprtunity, and did very, very well. Please note that I have a free agent being the favorite to replace McKenzie. We should have enough time to fill that roster spot. As you yourself has pointed out, someone like Napolean Harris would be much better than anyone we have available as depth.

IMHO, the BOTTOM LINE is that we have almost NO ROSTER DEPTH at all. Do you really want to have to depend on players like Craig and Titus Adams for anything but a Practice Squad position? To put it another way, if a position opened up because of injury, I think Belichick would be checking the available free agents for a replacement. Many of these players will be gone as soon as we sign draft choices.

DEFENSE (25)
DL (7) Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, Green, Wright, Brace, Smith
OLB (5) Thomas, Crable, Banta-Cain, Woods, Redd
ILB (4) Mayo, Guyton, Bruschi, free agent
CB (5) Butler, Bodden, Springs, Wheatley, Wilhite
S (4) Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, McGowan

You've got to be kidding. We have some of the best quality depth that we've ever had, and you think it is a bad thing?

Let's look at who is currently signed on defense (according to Miguel's roster list), with likely starters in bold and likely roster spots underlined:

DT (5): Vince Wilfork, Ron Brace, LeKevin Smith, Myron Pryor, Darryl Richard, Steve Williams
DE (5): Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Mike Wright, Kenny Smith
OLB (6): Adalius Thomas, Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable, Vince Redd, Tully Banta-Cain, Angelo Craig
ILB (6): Jerod Mayo, Gary Guyton, Tedy Bruschi, Eric Alexander, Antonio Appelby, Vinny Ciurciu
S (6): Brandon Meriweather, James Sanders, Patrick Chung, Tank Williams/Brandon McGowan, Brandon McGowan/Tank Williams, Ray Ventrone
CB(8): Leigh Bodden, Shawn Springs, Darius Butler, Terrance Wheatley, Jonathan Wilhite, Mike Richardson, Antwain Spann, Jamar Love

So we currently have 36 defensive players going in to training camp assuming no new signings. We likely have 25 defensive spots, and 23 of those are pretty much set. So there's 13 players competing for about 2 roster spots, barring some surprises. Some of those players have been good enough to earn roster spots in the post (LeKevin Smith, Alexander, Ray Ventrone, Antwain Spann, Mike Richardson, Tank Williams.

One more quality body at OLB and one more at ILB would be nice, but otherwise it's hard for me to imagine us being in better shape than we currently are. There are plenty of young bodies to take reps and show what they have and save some of the older vets from too much wear and tear, if that is your concern.

 

[Deus Irae]

You have missed the point entirely. Depth is great. Competition for roster spots is great. Having competitors who are cut almost as good as those who made it is great. Just look at our offense. There is at least one open roster positions at every position, every one: QB, RB, WR, TE, OT, and OG. And there are plenty competitors for each spot, not only camp fodder, but actual high quality competitors. The offense will be AWESOME yet again!!
=====================================
You have gone over the edge with regard to the defense in your harangue. As you say all the roster spots are filled but two. I have McGowan as having filled the safety spot. I have Tank competing for the last ILB spot with everyone else. I think that a free agent will get the roster spot, but I have penciled in Alexander.
==========================================
We basically have all the roster spots set .

1) WE HAVE NO COMPETITION for roster spots, and you think that this is good. It is good for players to be guaranteed a spot unless they break a leg??????
2) WE HAVE ALMOST NO ONE AVAILABLE in case of injuries except for the hangers on and Practice Squad players who would likely be a large reduction in effectiveness.
============================================
We have a fine roster. Let's start the season now. On the defense, we cannot afford any injuries.
====================================================

Actually, the lack of roster spot competition this year IS a good thing. The reality is that you're still focused on linebacker. I lean towards the cornerback spot being more of an issue. But, either way, the lack of competition at the bottom of the barrel is largely a product of having lots of good, young prospects taking up the slots.

 

[mgteich]

THE OFFENSE

Consider the two positions of backup interior linemen. Here new players may very well be the favorites for the positions: Johnson and Ohrenberger. Would we be really be better off with no one else on the roster than a couple of Practice Squad type players, perhaps Connelly and Wendall? Aren't we better of with real roster competition and depth from Hochstein, Yates and perhaps even Bussey?

Consider the two backup OT positions. I have Vollmer and LeVoir as the favorites. Would we really be better off with no competition for those spots from O'Callaghan, Duckett and Britt?
=============================
THE DEFENSE

Would we worse off if Hobbs or a free agent were here competing for one of the roster spots at corner?

Would we really be worse off if we had two free agents who might compete with Banta-Cain, Redd, and Alexander for their roster spots?

Actually, the lack of roster spot competition this year IS a good thing. The reality is that you're still focused on linebacker. I lean towards the cornerback spot being more of an issue. But, either way, the lack of competition at the bottom of the barrel is largely a product of having lots of good, young prospects taking up the slots.

 

[Deus Irae]

THE OFFENSE

Consider the two positions of backup interior linemen. Here new players may very well be the favorites for the positions: Johnson and Ohrenberger. Would we be really be better off with no one else on the roster than a couple of Practice Squad type players, perhaps Connelly and Wendall? Aren't we better of with real roster competition and depth from Hochstein, Yates and perhaps even Bussey?

Consider the two backup OT positions. I have Vollmer and LeVoir as the favorites. Would we really be better off with no competition for those spots from O'Callaghan, Duckett and Britt?
=============================
THE DEFENSE

Would we worse off if Hobbs or a free agent were here competing for one of the roster spots at corner?

Would we really be worse off if we had two free agents who might compete with Banta-Cain, Redd, and Alexander for their roster spots?

Wouldn't the Patriots be better off if they had their 3rd round draft pick playing QB instead of some guy who didn't get drafted until the 6th round?