Pats Perceived Value/Need

[DaBruinz]

Back in January, I did a thread that I erroneously titled Pats "Top" Priority. It should have been titled "Pats Perceived Value" and should have focused on how the Patriots weighted the positions to one another in terms of the draft. My post drew the IRE of several people. This list was written prior to free agency and the draft. I wanted to review it to see how I did.

1) Defensive End - Pats used a 5th to draft Myron Pryor and a 7th to draft Darryl Richard.
2) Offensive Guard - Pats drafted Ohrnberger in the 4th after the Hobbs trade and then George Bussey in the 5th.
3) Nose Tackle - Pats traded up to get Ron Brace and then added Myron Pryor who could also play DE.
4) Long Snapper - Pats took possibly the best Long Snapper in the draft in Jake Ingram in the 6th round. They also signed Nathan Hodel, formerly of the Cardinals after they lost Paxton.
5) Safety - SS to Tweener - The Pats signed Shawn Springs, re-signed Tank Williams, and drafted PATRICK Chung as their 1st pick in the draft.
6) Pass-Rushing OLB - Patriots didn't draft anyone at this position.
7) ILB - The Pats drafted Tyrone McKenzie.
8) Cornerback - The Pats signed Shawn Springs, Drafted Darius Butler and traded Ellis Hobbs.
9) Offensive Tackle - The Pats drafted Sebastian Vollmer at the end of the 2nd round. Shocking many people, including myself.
10) Tight End - The Pats signed Chris Baker and Brad Listori.
11) Center - The Pats re-signed Hochstein and Yates to 1 year deals. They also added Al Johnson from the Phins. The topper was added Ohrnberger who can play center and guard.
12) Running back - The Patriots signed Fred Taylor in the off-season.
12) Wide Receiver - The Pats traded for Greg Lewis, signed Joey Galloway, and then drafted Tate from NC State and Edelman from Kent State.

Looking at this, I had the positions correct except for OLB. But clearly the how the Patriots weighed the positions wrong, though I think I had the NT position weighted correctly. How wrong, we'll never know.

 

[maverick4]

1) Defensive End - Pats used a 5th to draft Myron Pryor and a 7th to draft

5) Safety - SS to Tweener - The Pats signed Shawn Springs, re-signed Tank Williams, and drafted Eugene Chung as their 1st pick in the draft.

12) Wide Receiver - The Pats traded for Greg Lewis, signed Joey Galloway, and then drafted Tate from NC State and Edelman from Kent State.

Looking at this, I had the positions correct.

You get a cookie for naming 12 positions, listing every semi-related transaction, and then asking for credit for it. Nice job getting Patrick Chung's name wrong too.

 

[jeffbiologist]

I too think it funny that we added 3 new players to the 12th most important position and only 2 new guys to the MOST important...without even mentioning that they are camp fodder. I dont know how you could have been so right?!? Got a lottery number for me??(SARCASM RIGHT THERE).

 

[billdog3484]

I dont think the list is that bad. When you think about it, the Patriots could have rated their needs the same as you did. It's important to remember that although you have a gameplan in something, the cards dont always fall your way, so you have to have Plan B in place (probably also C, D, E, etc.).

I mean, I think 50% of us thought OLB was our #1 priority and what have we dont to improve that? Well not much at this point. But also consider we may sign Taylor, or less likely, trade for Peppers. Or we could do nothing.

I too think DE is a position we needed, but there werent players we liked either in FA because of price or lack of talent, or in the draft due to talent or value.

So, maybe you were right on some, a little off on others. I think you did a good job

 

[DaBruinz]

I too think it funny that we added 3 new players to the 12th most important position and only 2 new guys to the MOST important...without even mentioning that they are camp fodder. I dont know how you could have been so right?!? Got a lottery number for me??(SARCASM RIGHT THERE).

Great job of actually READING there, SFBS. You just continue to prove how analytical you are. I said I had the positions right, but the weightings wrong. Unlike you, I actually can admit to my mistakes and try and learn from them.

BTW, SFBS, the Pats added 4 players to WR, not 3. But they used a 3rd, 6th and 2 free agent signings to do it. Weighting isn't just about the NUMBER of players you add. Its about what you spend to get them.

Hell, do you even know what it means to weight the positions in terms of need?

 

[DaBruinz]

You get a cookie for naming 12 positions, listing every semi-related transaction, and then asking for credit for it. Nice job getting Patrick Chung's name wrong too.

I'm not asking for credit for anything. That is what YOU do. Just like you insist on making sh!t up about people. And lying about them. Back to ignore you go. I knew I shouldn't have bothered removing you from ignore. you don't bring anything of value.

BTW, SFBs, I do make mistakes. Never claimed to be perfect. Hell, its why I posted the list. To say that I wasn't. But far be it from you to understand that.

 

[billdog3484]

honestly, you have to relax dabruinz. stop taking everything so personal and serious.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Back in January, I did a thread that I erroneously titled Pats "Top" Priority. It should have been titled "Pats Perceived Value" and should have focused on how the Patriots weighted the positions to one another in terms of the draft. My post drew the IRE of several people. This list was written prior to free agency and the draft. I wanted to review it to see how I did.

1) Defensive End - Pats used a 5th to draft Myron Pryor and a 7th to draft Darryl Richard.
2) Offensive Guard - Pats drafted Ohrnberger in the 4th after the Hobbs trade and then George Bussey in the 5th.
3) Nose Tackle - Pats traded up to get Ron Brace and then added Myron Pryor who could also play DE.
4) Long Snapper - Pats took possibly the best Long Snapper in the draft in Jake Ingram in the 6th round. They also signed Nathan Hodel, formerly of the Cardinals after they lost Paxton.
5) Safety - SS to Tweener - The Pats signed Shawn Springs, re-signed Tank Williams, and drafted PATRICK Chung as their 1st pick in the draft.
6) Pass-Rushing OLB - Patriots didn't draft anyone at this position.
7) ILB - The Pats drafted Tyrone McKenzie.
8) Cornerback - The Pats signed Shawn Springs, Drafted Darius Butler and traded Ellis Hobbs.
9) Offensive Tackle - The Pats drafted Sebastian Vollmer at the end of the 2nd round. Shocking many people, including myself.
10) Tight End - The Pats signed Chris Baker and Brad Listori.
11) Center - The Pats re-signed Hochstein and Yates to 1 year deals. They also added Al Johnson from the Phins. The topper was added Ohrnberger who can play center and guard.
12) Running back - The Patriots signed Fred Taylor in the off-season.
12) Wide Receiver - The Pats traded for Greg Lewis, signed Joey Galloway, and then drafted Tate from NC State and Edelman from Kent State.

Looking at this, I had the positions correct except for OLB. But clearly the how the Patriots weighed the positions wrong, though I think I had the NT position weighted correctly. How wrong, we'll never know.

Good list....and I really would not listen to these jokers

Early on before we sign Sanders I was thinking Safety was our #1 need with the OLB being a close #2 after Vrabs was traded. Now what kept me wondering was the off season situation with Woods, Redd and Crable. We did pick up TBC again and he will be able to rep there but BB must think that the young guys might be ready.

In his press conference he said something to the effect that this years draft did not have many tall and fast OLB but you know BB, you cant get a read on the guy. To me I think that he likes Crable, Woods and Rudd as the are all very tall but so is Jason Taylor. I really think that BB is comfortable with this OLB situation right now going into the season as he has seen all of these guys way more then the people calling for JT or JP for much more money.

This is the reason why he drafted an ILB to pair with Mayo for many years. I really did not have this kid on my radar but I am kicking myself in the ass now. As BB pointed out he pick up three different defensive systems in 4 years and excelled each time. BB just did not see any value at OLB where he was when they were on the clock, simple as that I think?? If the young guys do not work out this season as well as he would like, BB does have three second round choices next year to pick a great one in a deep class of OLB from my quick research.

Nose/DE - Pretty much they drafted some big men who they think can be versatile enough to provide depth and situation play next season. Brace since we drafted him I think moves better then I though. I watched him at the Senior Bowl and said he could be a great NT in the NFL. When I watch him in a 1 tech paired with Raji he looked great. I found he moved better then he did at the Senior bowl from the two tapes I saw him play in. In those games I also like Bruton but that I should save for another day Now I am not saying he moves well enough for a End but the two others remind me of Wright and may serve the same purpose but I do like Prior he is just short.

 

[doubledowntrent]

I don't get it. You just listed every single position as a need except Quarterback and Kicker.

Well done?

 

[jeffbiologist]

Great job of actually READING there, SFBS. You just continue to prove how analytical you are. I said I had the positions right, but the weightings wrong. Unlike you, I actually can admit to my mistakes and try and learn from them.

BTW, SFBS, the Pats added 4 players to WR, not 3. But they used a 3rd, 6th and 2 free agent signings to do it. Weighting isn't just about the NUMBER of players you add. Its about what you spend to get them.

Hell, do you even know what it means to weight the positions in terms of need?

Listen pip squeak, you could have said "we need football players" and been more right, was that your point? "Weighting position in terms of need", I dont have to be analytical, you got that all over all of us(SARCASM). You made a ridiculous post and busted on ya, take your lumps like a man for **** sake. If you had the positions right we wouldnt be having this retort, and if this is you admitting you are wrong, WOW. I dont have all the answers either, but I post QUESTIONS on here, not rhetoric. Its ok to have different opinions, but dont go into a battle of wits unarmed.

 

[efin98]

Way too coincidental that they did not draft to fill a need at the pass rushing OLB and Jayson Taylor happens to be on the market still with strong signals that the is inclined to sign with them...and the freed up money from trading away Hobbs looks like it could be used to sign Taylor so if/when that happens- that would mean all needs have been filled from your perceived need list...

 

[SunnyDenmark]

Way too coincidental that they did not draft to fill a need at the pass rushing OLB and Jayson Taylor happens to be on the market still with strong signals that the is inclined to sign with them...and the freed up money from trading away Hobbs looks like it could be used to sign Taylor so if/when that happens- that would mean all needs have been filled from your perceived need list...

My thoughts exactly! RE: biggest need - rush OLB not address in draft YET some cap room freed up (for J. Taylor) after Ellis trade. Especially as with Ellis trade - his cap # was manageable AND BB has said time and again 'you can't have enough DB's'. Plus also the whole BB philosophy of promoting TC competition. So it really signals to me 'Come on down, Jason Taylor'. Plus anyway even with drafting a stud OLB - can well take a year or 2 to develop & learn the position in BB's scheme. All Patriot signs point to a JT encounter. The porch light has been left on - and the welcome mat rolled out. Hell - I will even drive him from Logan to Foxborough (and I live in Denmark!).

 

[patsfan13]

only thing to add is L Bodden at CB real makeover at CB.

Good shot. The most interesting thing for me in the offseason is to see what BB thinks is lacking based on the personnel moves during the offseason.

Only thing left now is to see IF J Taylor is signed IMO.

 

[DaBruinz]

Listen pip squeak, you could have said "we need football players" and been more right, was that your point? "Weighting position in terms of need", I dont have to be analytical, you got that all over all of us(SARCASM). You made a ridiculous post and busted on ya, take your lumps like a man for **** sake. If you had the positions right we wouldnt be having this retort, and if this is you admitting you are wrong, WOW. I dont have all the answers either, but I post QUESTIONS on here, not rhetoric. Its ok to have different opinions, but dont go into a battle of wits unarmed.

Jeff - Listen. You've been schooled by numerous people about your lousy posting. Not just myself. As for a battle of wits, I am hardly unarmed. You can think that, but then you've proven to be incapable of drawing conclusions from the information available on a regular basis.

My post wasn't ridiculous then and its not ridiculous now. I take my lumps just fine. If you had bothered to click on the link provided, you'd have seen that I didn't change my list at all from January. And the Patriots address the positions via the draft and via free agency. The only one they didn't address is OLB and that is one that I had weighted 6th.

 

[Warren94]

Mckenzie can play some outside based on his resume. It will remain to be seen if he has the speed to do so. They got a long snapper (probably the best one) so our long snapping should be set for years to come.

 

[mayoclinic]

Can we stop the name calling and exchanging insults? Barwin's gone to Houston, so we don't need to get into this kind of stuff anymore.

Seriously, DaBruinz posted the thread. If people don't like the topic, why not just avoid it.

This is such an amazing board with a lot of contributions and insights from everyone. It's a bit sad what it deteriorates into name calling. No one comes off looking good. JMHO.

I think that several people on this board did a nice job of assessing needs early on, particularly DaBruinz and Mgteich. Obviusly, BB saw many of the same needs but surprised a lot of us with his focus.

 

[maverick4]

My post wasn't ridiculous then and its not ridiculous now. I take my lumps just fine.

But it's pretty self serving to bump an older thread just to tout one's horn. It's also not that impressive to list 12 positions of need (which is a lot) and make it sound like it was some sort of skillful/prescient forecast.

 

[bakes781]

In terms of how the Pats went about this draft, I think it's clear they felt safety was the biggest need. As far as value, I think Darius Butler was very high on their board. Had Delmas not been taken at #33 Bill very well may have felt he could wait on a safety until #41 and would've taken Butler instead. But because it played out the way it did, I think you saw him reach slightly for need with the selection of Chung. However he was later rewarded with a great value pick in Butler.

 

[billdog3484]

In terms of how the Pats went about this draft, I think it's clear they felt safety was the biggest need. As far as value, I think Darius Butler was very high on their board. Had Delmas not been taken at #33 Bill very well may have felt he could wait on a safety until #41 and would've taken Butler instead. But because it played out the way it did, I think you saw him reach slightly for need with the selection of Chung. However he was later rewarded with a great value pick in Butler.

i wonder if we would have taken butler at #34 is Delmas wasnt selected the pick earlier. I am thinking we saw two top safeties in this draft and we wanted 1 of them.