So who exactly did the BB regime ever develop slowly and successfully?

[efin98]

I don't know; since you seem privy to this information, why don't you tell us?

Burned on about two big plays per game, I believe at least three TDs with one being a major one that took the team out of the game.

You know this, how?

I believe it Mike Reiss's Pieces blog, I believe he was surprised he made the cut last year...

Completely and utterly preposterous. First, Chung has shown he can play safety... in college. In case you hadn't noticed, NFL football is an entirely different echelon. Second, everything BB has ever said about Sanders has been both positive and effusive (by BB standards). Third, even if Chung pans out, which I believe he will, Sanders will never be cut because there's simply not that much behind him in terms of depth.

They cut guys last year with a thin depth at CB and LB. If he isn't playing up to their standards then he won't be there depth problems or not.

Oh, and lest I forget. Do you really, really think they would have inked him to a three year deal, at a respectable salary no less, if there were any chance at all they were considering cutting him later on before/during the season? I mean, use your head.

Actually, yes I do think they would have signed him to that much of a deal if they were possibly going to cut him in the future if he didn't work out for them. If it works out that he isn't performing to their standards they will pay whatever guaranteed to him and he will be gone, and even then it's probably not much at all.


I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong about him.

 

[RayClay]

That's a different point.

My point in starting this thread is that there's an impression the Pats spend years spinning straw into gold, especially in Professor Dante's O-Line Academy.

I suspect that, while there's some truth to it, it's overstated.

It's overstated. Playing time usually has more to do with need than anything. Because we don't rush players who aren't ready, we don't need to do it in the future. We certainly do it sometimes, but we are aware and give them support.

Mayo was thrown in due to need, don't kid yourself. I'm sure he was mentored and advised to the max, but there was a hole. They threw Eugene Wilson in at a position he'd never played.

When possible, they try to delay starting rookies and let the vets mentor and rookies learn. Seymour didn't start right away, Merriweather hardly played except on teams for a while. Ellis Hobbs was held out because of immaturity, I believe, while Duane Starks did his imitation of a peg leg pirate playing defensive back with major leg and shoulder injuries.

The difference is, many teams feel they have to have that 1st rounder playing because the fans demand it. They get bad habits and big egos, and they start over next year replacing the same guy.

 

[RayClay]

I think the low round picks excelling happens on all teams. It's more about the player than the team IMO.

Dante took a bunch of FA, low rounders and made them decent, but we had a quick, short passing offense. Brady was codled, bur he was so efficient we snuck up on some people in 2001.

Just shows what you can do with great play calling, execution and balance (3 yards and a cloud Antowain smith)

 

[JackBauer]

I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong about him.

Well, I'd get prepared to eat your hat if I were you. The Patriots could have easily signed someone like Sean Jones for equal money, but chose not to do so.

BB has also been very high on Sanders. I'd say there's a 5 percent chance he doesn't make the roster.

 

[RayClay]

That's the point, until he came to New England he was essentially just a special teams guy who made some difference on defense but was mostly unnoticed.

He had more tackles his first year here than he had in four years in Pittsburgh combined, to go along with his anemic six sacks and three forced fumbles...the system here made his career.

Pittsburgh also spends more on high rounders and expensive free agents at the LB position in a given year than we do in ten. We took advantage of a logjam at the position.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

We can add a UDFA WR who didn't do much down in Mia and went to the prowbowl this year. Wes Welker.

 

[efin98]

So, despite the fact they didn't draft an OLB this year, you think they're going to cut their best OLB after Adalius Thomas?

Tully Banta-Cain, Vince Redd, Shawn Crable would argue that sentiment about him being the best behind Thomas...

 

[JackBauer]

Tully Banta-Cain, Vince Redd, Shawn Crable would argue that sentiment about him being the best behind Thomas...

At this point, Woods looks like the best player of that group.

They've been grooming Woods for a few a years now. Redd and Crable are pretty young and inexperienced to be full-time starters, and Banta-Cain is what he is... a situational player.

Unless the Patriots bring someone else in, expect Woods to be the starter.

 

[fgssand]

BB has a reputation for bringing players along slowly and making eventual stars of them. When I look for examples of that, however, the list I come up with is basically:

• Tom Brady
• Matt Cassel
• Asante Samuel
• David Givens (not a big star, but clearly a great value)
• Stephen Neal (ditto)

Who else, if anybody, am I missing? Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo, Light, Mankins, Koppen, and others all played significant roles their first seasons. Others -- especially lots of OL and LBs -- did well on STs or as reserves, but hardly became stars.

Is this story perhaps a bit exaggerated?

There cannot be a team of stars......NE development is not only for star starters - but must include all developed starters, back ups and special teamers. Add to that practice squad development and hell, might as well throw in the shadow roster as well.

There are very few teams that have the consistent complete approach to everything they do. I am glad NE is one of the few.

 

[PushnPencils]

As strange as this may sound. I'd add Bruschi.

He was a fan favorite and scrappy player prior to BB's tenure as HC, but didn't achieve greatness until BB came along.

 

[Mainefan]

The premise behind this thread is dubious.

The question is, do players generally get better when they come to the Patriots? That includes draftees, UFAs, trades, and free agents.

The right answer, I think, is generally yes. Those who do not improve soon depart.

The reason is that the Patriots put a great emphasis on teaching and coaching and have the personnel to do the job, beginning at the top.

Is this true of other teams? Some. Are the Patriots at the top of the list? If we judge by results--and what better way is there to judge?--I think the answer is pretty clear.

 

[Sicilian]

Tully Banta-Cain, Vince Redd, Shawn Crable would argue that sentiment about him being the best behind Thomas...

I'll grant you Tully will see significant playing time (probably platooning with Woods), but don't get too excited about Redd and Crable. It took Colvin and Thomas a full year to get acclimated to the Pats system (by their own admissions), and they were seasoned vets. Crable didn't play a snap last year and Redd only got time as an emergency fill in. I have high hopes for them as well, but I'm not going into the season with ANY expectations.

 

[jmt57]

I'll go along with what Mainefan said. First of all the Pats system, more than most other teams, is not about 'stars' but is about players who fill specific roles. It's about winning games, not padding stats; it's about championship trophies, not pro bowl trophies.

Second, you're looking for players who were/are both stars - solid starters don't count - and also did not start right away. I'm guessing that throughout the entire NFL rosters of all 32 teams that there are not a whole lot of players that fit both of those descriptions.

Third, you list a number of players that do fit the two criteria for this discussion, and conclude that the number is low. But how can you know that is a high or low number with nothing to compare it to? Without knowing how many players another coach or team has developed, that number is meaningless.

The reality is that we are in a different era now than a generation ago. Due to the double edged sword of free agency and the salary cap, the concept of slowly developing a player has taken a hit. Teams can't afford the luxury of waiting two or three years for a player to develop, and if they do then they run the risk of losing him to free agency.

 

[WhiZa]

I don't think you can include anyone who was drafted in the first 3 rounds on the list. Those players were already successful and the development time should have been minimal. The players you take later in the draft or UDFA, who grow into starting positions, are truly ones that BB had to develop successfully.

 

[DaBruinz]

He was constantly on the borderline cut area last preseason and his game films last year are a case of what not to do for a defensive back...he isn't a success, he's a borderline failure at this point.

If Sanders was as bad as you claim, do you really think the Patriots would have given him 3 million a year for the next 3 years?

Sanders was only on the cut area by fans. And his game films show that he is more of a success than you claim.

You sound like DW Toys. And he's been debunked about Sanders by everyone.

 

[JSn]

You sound like DW Toys. And he's been debunked about Sanders by everyone.

That's just cuz Toys keeps mixing James up with the Colonel.

 

[DaBruinz]

And how many times did he get burned badly last year? How many TDs did he give up?

He barely made the cut last year and may not make it this year with someone there who can actually play safety drafted, I call that a failure.

Why don't you tell everyone how many times Sanders got "burned badly" last year? And tell us how many TDs he was responsible for.

I'd be willing to put money that Sanders was never in jeopardy of being cut last year and that he won't be cut this year or next year either.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wright and Woods lucked into playing with all the injuries to the defense, I would hardly put them into the group yet. Hell I don't even think Woods will be around after training camp. Wright may be on the rise, but I'm not sold on him yet. He could be the next Chris Sullivan but it is too early to tell.

I'll give one to counter my claim on them to be nice...Tully Banta-Cain, 7th rounder who went on to sign for decent money with San Fransisco.

How about Heath Evens, they sign him and he goes on to be one of the best blocking fullbacks in the league saving his career.

Wright earned his playing time by being outstanding on Special teams. Not because of injuries. Wright has been a steady presence on 3rd down over the last 2 years.

TBC - A complete failure in San Fran.

Heath Evans is one of the best blocking FBs in the league? You must be watching a different time line because Evans has been nothing more than above average as a lead blocker. Especially when compared to guys like Tony Richardson and Lorenzo Neal.

 

[Bostonian1962]

IIRC, Vrabel was playing a lot right away, and effectively. In particular, his pressure on Warner led to a key INT in the Super Bowl.

Vrabel was the first example that came to my mind. He was not playing alot at first, and certainly not even close to being at the level of what he became. I think he's a great example of what was being asked.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Which is why they just resigned him to a three year contract?

Here's a dollar. Buy yourself a clue.

I agree. A starting safety for one of the best teams in the NFL, that the team re-signs long term.....................no way he can be considered a borderline failure.