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English Thought


You are correct of course. But posters here will tell you that the past means nothing. :)
And some will wallow in the past and not allow it the role of prologue. :)
 
The one real knock I have against English is that he didn't play against top competition. In all his years, I don't think BB has ever taken a guy from a small school on day 1. Not to say he wasn't productive, but it is hard to know just how good he really is...

How'd that work out when drafting Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings....I know, I'm supposed to wait at least two weeks (not one day) when referring to that again!
 
So after reading the thoughtful replies, it seems like all of us are in agreement on one thing: Barwin being the 23 pick.:banned:
 
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So after reading the thoughtful replies, it seems like all of us are in agreement on one thing: Barwin being the 23 pick.:banned:

As much as I love Barwin, I don't see us taking him at 23. We've never drafted a project that high. The highest we've gone on a project was Marquise Hill may he rest in peace.
 
Just one of my horrendous stabs at humor.

Just one of my half ***** attempts at reading threads completely while at work. :rolleyes:
 
As much as I love Barwin, I don't see us taking him at 23. We've never drafted a project that high. The highest we've gone on a project was Marquise Hill may he rest in peace.
Sure we have, Wilfork and Meriweather (I believe he was considered as a potential replacement for Samuel with Safety as a fallback option).
 
So after reading the thoughtful replies, it seems like all of us are in agreement on one thing: Barwin being the 23 pick.:banned:

I'm forming a Coalition for all those in favor of Larry English over Connor Barwin.

larry20english2.jpg
 
The main point is that English does have his warts. He's not a clear cut 'safe' pick as some are trying to say. He doesn't have ideal size/length for a Pats OLB. I'm also concerned about his lack of top athleticism and how he will play in space on the edge of the defense. Barwin is still my top OLB prospect for the Pats 3-4, but if he gets taken before 23, I would settle for English and hope he could make the transition.
 
Sure we have, Wilfork and Meriweather (I believe he was considered as a potential replacement for Samuel with Safety as a fallback option).

I really respect your opinions Box, but how were they projects in a similar sense to Barwin is?
Both had produced at the college level.
 
1 gapper in college or not, Wilfork was not the same risk as Barwin. And I disagree about Meriweather, of course I can't prove it but I don't think we considered him at CB, I think we played him there in camp because Safeties have to develop their coverage skills the best they can.
 
Head English on Movin the Chains today. Sounded like a bright guy, graduated from college already Liberal Arts. Visited with the Pats, didn't meet BB was with the LB coach, went over Pats D saw how he retained info, Denver Az a couple of other teams showing interest.

He is on my binky list w Barwin & S Smith. I could see taking English & Barwin. Would make me very happy.
 
Watch out for Paul Kruger as a developmental OLB. He is a pass rush guy in year 1 with an eye towards 2010 and beyond.

BB will not reach in rd. 1 just because we have a need. That need can be filled later.
 
Stiff and unathletic (relatively speaking, or course). I don't see him as a first-round talent with regard to rushing the quarterback or dropping into space.

looking at the limited highlights i have seen of him, i dont think he is THAT stiff. everette brown by comparison looks much more stiff than english. english seems like a ferocious, non-stop motor type player who is relentless. it definitely worreis me that he is short and his arms are not long. however, his ability to use leverage is good to great. clearly he was able to overpower and outspeed many of the players in the MAC. he did pretty well against the bigger teams, taking advantage of his superior use of leverage.

i cant say ive seen him in coverage that much. however, he looks fluid enough in open space to make the transition. that is something that would probably be a concern.
 
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I really respect your opinions Box, but how were they projects in a similar sense to Barwin is?
Both had produced at the college level.
How did Barwin not produce?

As for how they were projects:
- Wilfork: Switching from being a one-gap to a two-gap DL is a major change, per BB himself.
- Meriweather: Was he a S or a CB project? Let's look at the timeline.
---- In 03 BB drafted two CBs, but had to convert one to S.
---- In 04 he drafts two Safeties and another CB late and signs a UDFA (Gay) trying to build depth at CB.
---- In 05 he drafts a CB and a S because he needs depth at both.
---- In 06 he went offense, but still drafted a DB who played both SS and CB in college.
---- In 07 he drafts a S and a CB. Only in 07 he drafts the S in round one when the depth at CB is Hobbs, an oft injured Gay, and a Franchised Samuel...and he had three Safeties whom he considered starters.
---- Hypothesis: Meriweather was intended to be a CB (despite the reservations expressed by others). He was subbed in for Samuel in his early days as a rookie, he didn't take a lot of Safety reps until later in the season when he began playing the Dime package. Using Meriweather as a CB to 'develop his coverage skill' for Safety could just as easily be done using him as a FS or Nickelback, positions he would have been expected to play. Working him at CB only makes sense if you were considering him for CB. With Asante playing under the Franchise Tender, it sure looked like BB was hoping to using the ballhawking Meriweather to replace him - when that didn't work BB doubled up on CB in the 08 draft and signed two veterans, then had to sign O'Neal after losing his veterans.

I believe Meriweather set a precedent, a "project" meant for a position change, who had a fall back if he didn't work at the new position.

An argument can be made that the switch to OLB from DE is more challenging than either of the two moves above. This will hold true for all but Clint Sintim amongst the LB projects, and Sintim is going to be just as challenged in coverage as the rest of them.

Some of the folks who insist BB needs to draft a "safe" choice in round one, a player who can produce immediately, are also noting how BB can take BPA in round one because there are no holes in the current roster. If there are no holes, taking a project hurts only if there's no return on investment, Barwin has TE and STs to fall back on if he never makes it as an OLB.
 


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