English over Barwin at #23

[TriplecHamp]

I am not sure if this has been posted before but if it has just link or delete or whatever. You guys probably know my view on Barwin at #23 but here is an article that agrees with me and pinpoints a guy that I would like at #23, Larry English.

Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog Blog Archive Barwin a perfect fit?

Just a quick quote...
"If I could get Barwin late in the second round or in the third, like Vrabel, I’d be all for it. But I’m not looking to take a guy who’s played one year of defense (and who’ll have to make another transition at the pro level) in the first round. I don’t think he’d be ready to add to the pass rush from day one like the Patriots could very well need.

That’s why I’d rather see Northern Illinois’ ultra-productive Larry English get the call on draft weekend. He’s proven in college action and in postseason bowl work that he can get to the quarterback. I don’t care too much about his Combine numbers or 40 time. He knows what life on the edge is like. I think he could come in and serve as a situational pass rusher as a rookie and evolve into more than that down the road. Barwin may be the hot name and his ties to Vrabel may make him a fan favorite as a potential draft pick in New England, but I’d rather have the more productive guy that Barwin is supposedly pushing down the rankings — Larry English"

I Have even gone as far to say that #34 would be fine for Barwin.Forthose who want to know why I dont want Barwin at #23, that is your answer.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What was Andy's record last draft?

 

[mayoclinic]

So you'd prefer the guy who has never proven that he can handle a position change over the guy who has already proven that he can handle one and produce immediately? Makes sense to me.

 

[jays52]

He may write for the Patriots, but Hart is pretty high up there on my "so called experts" list. I'm as big an English fan as the next guy, but the let's leave the case making to those who know how to watch and evaluate football.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So you'd prefer the guy who has never proven that he can handle a position change over the guy who has already proven that he can handle one and produce immediately? Makes sense to me.

Don't start that again, we already know what he thinks, he's just found an article with a similar opinion to share - now all we need to know is how well Andy called past draft classes.

 

[jays52]

Don't start that again, we already know what he thinks, he's just found an article with a similar opinion to share - now all we need to know is how well Andy called past draft classes.

A 16 year old with an opinion, laptop and google is a skilled detractor, Box.

 

[mgteich]

This is one of many, many analysts who project Barwin as a late 2nd or 3rd round value as an OLB project. When we first looked at Barwin, we sent our TE coach, since Barwin may be a better prospect at TE than OLB. The argument made is that a team just cannot draft a player at 23 (or 34) in the hope of two years of production in the 3rd and 4th years of their contract, after which they will be a free agent.

Some will raise Barwin's rating because he has two possible paths of success. Others will reduce his rating beacuse they prefer players with a clear path, especially at 23 and 34. This does not mean we can't draft someone who will convert from his college position. Almost all positions are very different in the NFL (consider WR).

How many posts have we seen with outrage for the analysts who post their top 100 value lists and have Barwin out of the top 30?
================================

HOWEVER
With regard to English, these same analysts are much surer of how English will project. Most have him as a solid pick at 34, perhaps even a reach at 34.

If I wanted a player to start (or have signicant reps) at LB in 2009, I would be looking at Maualuga, Laurinitis, Matthews, and Everette Brown.

If I didn't draft an OLB at 23, I would hope to consider English or Sintim at 34 or even a bit lower.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

He may write for the Patriots, but Hart is pretty high up there on my "so called experts" list. I'm as big an English fan as the next guy, but the let's leave the case making to those who know how to watch and evaluate football.

jays52 meets Andy Hart, say hello Jay.

 

[mayoclinic]

With regard to English, these same analysts are much surer of how English will project. Most have him as a solid pick at 34, perhaps even a reach at 34.

Really? This is what Pro Football Weekly had to say about English:

"When it comes to Larry English, scouts play a game of 'he said, she said.' He was too productive in college to pass on as a late first-round pick. He’s too small. His quickness is undeniable. He will get dominated by bigger blockers.

The list goes on …

He’s a linebacker. No, he’s a defensive end. The Northern Illinois grad would be better in a 4-3 scheme. No, he would excel in an odd front.

In fact, the 23-year-old has so many unanswered questions regarding his draft stock that teams have him graded anywhere between a first- and sixth-round prospect.

English, possibly the most debated player of the 2009 draft class, is prepared for the negativity that any professional player inevitably draws. "

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

Hmm. Sounds like the perfect non-controversial pick at 34.

 

[TriplecHamp]

So you'd prefer the guy who has never proven that he can handle a position change over the guy who has already proven that he can handle one and produce immediately? Makes sense to me.

Yeah, Willie Mcginnest said that he believes English can make the transistion from DE to OLB and I trust him becuase I think he has made the switch before. Neither has made The transition from DE to OLB so both have a clean slate in my book. If we are going strictly by that than why not Cushing, he has played safety, OLB, ILB, DE. thats three position changes to Barwins 1. I guess you pefer him over Barwin right? LOL

 

[mgteich]

I suspect if we didn't think that Cushing had used steriods, and needed steroids, he would be included on our boards and more of our discussions. If there are no such character issues, then I would certainly expect Cushing to be on Belichick's first round board. Cushing, as does Matthews and Sintim, projects as a possiblity inside and outside.

Yeah, Willie Mcginnest said that he believes English can make the transistion from DE to OLB and I trust him becuase I think he has made the switch before. Neither has made The transition from DE to OLB so both have a clean slate in my book. If we are going strictly by that than why not Cushing, he has played safety, OLB, ILB, DE. thats three position changes to Barwins 1. I guess you pefer him over Barwin right? LOL

 

[mgteich]

PFW ranks English at 43. Some other rankings are 35 (Huddle), 40 (NFLdraftscout), and 31-40 Brandt. These four seemed pretty consistent to me. Perhaps the scouts changed their minds after the combine, pro days and private workouts.

Because of the need and because they may be others off our board, I would expect English to get consideration 34, at 47, and in-between. Do you disagree?

Really? This is what Pro Football Weekly had to say about English:

"When it comes to Larry English, scouts play a game of 'he said, she said.' He was too productive in college to pass on as a late first-round pick. He’s too small. His quickness is undeniable. He will get dominated by bigger blockers.

The list goes on …

He’s a linebacker. No, he’s a defensive end. The Northern Illinois grad would be better in a 4-3 scheme. No, he would excel in an odd front.

In fact, the 23-year-old has so many unanswered questions regarding his draft stock that teams have him graded anywhere between a first- and sixth-round prospect.

English, possibly the most debated player of the 2009 draft class, is prepared for the negativity that any professional player inevitably draws. "

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

Hmm. Sounds like the perfect non-controversial pick at 34.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

PFW ranks English at 43. Some other rankings are 35 (Huddle), 40 (NFLdraftscout), and 31-40 Brandt. These four seemed pretty consistent to me. Perhaps the scouts changed their minds after the combine, pro days and private workouts.

Because of the need and because they may be others off our board, I would expect English to get consideration 34, at 47, and in-between. Do you disagree?

That early second range is where I have English, but #34 is only a consideration if you've missed on Barwin. As it is, I'd expect BB to draft Sidbury around #47-58 and bypass English.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

english is overrated and injury prone

 

[patchick]

The quote from Hart was already debated to death 2 weeks ago...

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/225502-anyone-else-think-connor-barwin-overrated-page9.html#post1330533

...so I'll close this re-hash thread if no objections.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm going on sabbatical so go ahead.

 

[patchick]

I'm going on sabbatical so go ahead.

:wha:

You're shipping out of draft land?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

:wha:

You're shipping out of draft land?

Overnight.

 

[patchick]

Overnight.

Phew. Had me worried for a minute there.

Thread closing in 10, 9, 8....