Jason Taylor: Bad Fit?

[borg]

So the Patriots are going to sign Taylor because he and Brady share man love? BB will sign Taylor because football is not the most important thing in his life? The Patriots will fork over millions, likely what Vrabel was being paid, for a NEW player who doesn't know the system and doesn't want to take part in offseason training? Taylor is the answer despite an incredibly disappointing 2008 in which his stats were cut in half? 13 games, 21 solo tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 ff.
Here's a quote from Hogs Haven that may inject both optimism for Pats fans and skepticism for GMs courting this guy.

"The honeymoon with the new Washington dancing star, however, was pretty short lived. First, there was the freak injury. Second was the inability for Jason to adjust to Blache’s defensive style of defending the run first. Third was #55’s struggle to play on the other end of the defensive line from his natural side. The final straw provoking the pink slip was JT’s refusal to work out with the rest of the team in the off-season workouts."

The glass half full crowd will argue that injury and misuse, on a team he had no desire to play for, were too blame for his poor statistical season. BB will put a healthy Taylor in a position to succeed on a team that has a singular purpose.
The half empty crowd will respond that age has caught up with him, he is a one trick pony, and lacks the fire to compete on the highest level.
I'm betting that BB believes in Taylor as he did in Randy Moss, but Taylor has to show commitment to the team in the offseason. The Pats have signed several seasoned vets that will be getting their work in, and Taylor should be no different. The biggest red flag I see is that he struggled in a new environment after leaving his comfort zone in Miami.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

incentive-laden deal always helps motivate

 

[xmarkd400x]

At this point, Taylor is what he is. I'd imagine the fans do also. You're getting an aging OLB/DE who is pretty damn good at rushing the passer.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Maybe the Pats have their sights set on a pass rusher in the upcoming draft? If that's true, then if the team were to sign Jason, it would occur after the draft.

There are other issues as well. Does Jason still have the passion for the game? Parcells was none to pleased that he appeared in Dancing With the Stars. How is Jason coping with his divorce? He wouldn't want to leave Miami in the offseason. In addition to his age, is the motivation still there?

 

[Sicilian]

If he's signed for the same amount of money we would be paying Vrabel, it doesn't make any sense to me honestly:

Vrabel = Knows the system, leader within the system, 3 down LB, unquestioned committment to football.

Taylor = Doesn't know the system, doesn't know the team, likely a third down LB given injury and adjustment to system, may not have his heart totally in it.

Both similar in age, I just don't see them trading Vrabel to replace him with Taylor.

 

[Deus Irae]

..."The honeymoon with the new Washington dancing star, however, was pretty short lived. First, there was the freak injury. Second was the inability for Jason to adjust to Blache’s defensive style of defending the run first. Third was #55’s struggle to play on the other end of the defensive line from his natural side. The final straw provoking the pink slip was JT’s refusal to work out with the rest of the team in the off-season workouts."...

1.) I try not to hold injuries against a guy, as long as the situations aren't ridiculous and the recovery is complete, or nearly so.

2.) Jason Taylor is small for a defensive end. Struggles in a defense defending the run first when he's injured and can't take advantage of his positive skills is something that should be expected.

3.) When you sign a guy like Taylor who excels doing certain things and has done them in similar fashion throughout his career, and you take him away from his comfort zone, expecting a seamless transition is idiotic.

4.) The league really needs to rein in this "off-season workouts" crap. The whole point of the word voluntary has been subverted. I really hope that the next CBA takes a stand on this.

New England went some of the same things with Colvin, but the team found a way to utilize him for years after his injury. That's why teams like the Patriots keep legitimately competing for Lombardis, and teams like the Redskins don't.

 

[JSn]

Both similar in age, I just don't see them trading Vrabel to replace him with Taylor.

I agree, it would have to be affordable, but I think you'd be seeing downs #1 and #2 generally being manned by Woods/Crabs/Redd or a MAYBE a draftee anyway. So if you're looking for a pure pass-rusher, even at similar cost to Vrabes, I think Taylor is likely going to be more effective than Mike would have been, in that role. And keep in mind, we don't know that Peppers could even project at three downs in his first year, so that would be the plan in almost any scenario, I would think.

 

[Spiral]

Third was #55’s struggle to play on the other end of the defensive line from his natural side.

If I'm mistaken about this, please feel free to correct me, but IIRC, when Taylor was playing against the Patriots, he would routinely switch sides in order to make it harder for the Patriots to block him.

 

[crowell33]

Don't need Taylor. This is next years starting OLB:

Vince Redd, OLB -- Liberty

Redd, who began his college career at Virginia before transferring to Liberty, turned in a workout for the ages. He measured 6-6, weighed in at 263 and then turned in forty times that ranged in the mid-4.5 area, with some stopwatches reading 4.48. He also posted a 39-inch vertical jump and 9-foot-10 broad jump.

( Quote from SportIllustrated.com )

 

[spacecrime]

Don't need Taylor. This is next years starting OLB:

Vince Redd, OLB -- Liberty

Redd, who began his college career at Virginia before transferring to Liberty, turned in a workout for the ages. He measured 6-6, weighed in at 263 and then turned in forty times that ranged in the mid-4.5 area, with some stopwatches reading 4.48. He also posted a 39-inch vertical jump and 9-foot-10 broad jump.

( Quote from SportIllustrated.com )

I like Redd, also

 

[letekro]

At this point, Taylor is what he is. I'd imagine the fans do also. You're getting an aging OLB/DE who is pretty damn good at rushing the passer.

Problem is, when guys like that lose a half-step, it's all over. Too many question marks with this guy. If they can fit Peppers in, great, even if it means losing Seymour down the line. If not, draft a Larry English type.

 

[satz]

Don't need Taylor. This is next years starting OLB:

Vince Redd, OLB -- Liberty

Redd, who began his college career at Virginia before transferring to Liberty, turned in a workout for the ages. He measured 6-6, weighed in at 263 and then turned in forty times that ranged in the mid-4.5 area, with some stopwatches reading 4.48. He also posted a 39-inch vertical jump and 9-foot-10 broad jump.

( Quote from SportIllustrated.com )

Can he play in NFL that is the question. when he subed a few time trying rush he just did not do anything and the RT was having success.I just do not think he is a fit
as we have thomas on one side and would like a young lb on the other. no team can just add players in one position without roster consideration.if we sign him
thomas , jason ,woods,tbc will be active on game day leaving crabel/redd/rookie to be either inactive or cut.no one is going to develop siting on the bench.

 

[MassPats38]

I don't know if I'd blame Taylor for his time with the Deadskins. As many players seem to point out before and after playing with the Patriots, the organization is markedly better than others from top to bottom. The Redskins have lacked any stability on either side of the ball, and it shows.

I'd like to see Taylor here, having actually played linebacker previously, if for no other reason than he might be capable of playing near his previous levels. That makes him likely good, not great, but with the right line in front of his he could be great still. He also doesn't carry the potentially cascading salary cap ramifications of Peppers, who has never played linebacker and lacks any evidence to suggest he will be the next Ray Lewis, at a much higher price tag.

Passion for the game is often fueled by winning, and he hasn't seen much of that in his recent years. If you are a superstar in the NFL, in a team sport, the failure of others to carry their weight in order to win games has to mentally beat you down. Barry Sanders left for that very reason, and nobody would claim he was near done in the NFL when he left. Frustration is also not out of the question given his career level of play and the quality of teams he has played on recently. Dillon and Moss both fit that mold, and they were/are contributors in New England.

 

[sinned86]

As a 3-down linebacker, sure Jason Taylor is a bad fit. As a situational pass-rusher, he's great for the Pats.

When it's 2nd and long, 3rd down, Jason Taylor will be very useful.

If the opposition doesn't account for him, he'll need to make them pay.

If the opposition is forced to account for him, then someone else will be unblocked or someone like Seymour single-blocked or that TE like Dustin Keller has to stay and pass protect rather than going in the flat and getting 16 yards.

Is Jason Taylor capable of such situational pass-rushing? I think so. Will he be asked to take on some responsibilities against the run? Probably, but Belichick knows his limitations.

For the right price, Jason Taylor will be a great addition to this team.

 

[patsox23]

If Taylor winds up here it will be because BB did his due diligence and is convinced, and has been assured by Taylor, that he has bough into the program. If Taylor doesn't agree to this, then he won't be signed. Therefore, I think he won't be a bad fit.

 

[patsox23]

Why does trading for/signing a Peppers or Taylor preclude the Patriots from drafting a Larry English? It doesn't. BOTH things - bring in a stud vet and draft a young LB - are very likely tohappen.

 

[crowell33]

Why does trading for/signing a Peppers or Taylor preclude the Patriots from drafting a Larry English? It doesn't. BOTH things - bring in a stud vet and draft a young LB - are very likely tohappen.

The problem with drafting English is how long before he can contribute? Many good draft picks ( Ty Warren, Meriweather, Tedy Bruschi, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, etc. etc. etc ) have little to no contributions in year one. Does BB want to bring in a rookie to compete for time with Pierre Woods, Tully Banta Cain, Shawn Crable and Vince Redd? 5 young guys competing for one starting spot? Maybe.

 

[KingChre]

The problem with drafting English is how long before he can contribute? Many good draft picks ( Ty Warren, Meriweather, Tedy Bruschi, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, etc. etc. etc ) have little to no contributions in year one. Does BB want to bring in a rookie to compete for time with Pierre Woods, Tully Banta Cain, Shawn Crable and Vince Redd? 5 young guys competing for one starting spot? Maybe.

For the record, Ray Lewis played and started 14 games his rookie year, and had 110 tackles, I would say that is a significant contribution.

That being said, your point is a valid one.

 

[Grizzafted]

The problem with drafting English is how long before he can contribute? Many good draft picks ( Ty Warren, Meriweather, Tedy Bruschi, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, etc. etc. etc ) have little to no contributions in year one. Does BB want to bring in a rookie to compete for time with Pierre Woods, Tully Banta Cain, Shawn Crable and Vince Redd? 5 young guys competing for one starting spot? Maybe.

If we walk out of the first three picks we have with no LB and no Peppers, I may cry. Seriously. With the draft class at LB, I have to think Belichick is going to see a long-term upside with at least one of them...

Pierre Woods outside for the whole year is a nightmare for me. Ellis Hobbs has been bad enough.

 

[Sicilian]

I agree, it would have to be affordable, but I think you'd be seeing downs #1 and #2 generally being manned by Woods/Crabs/Redd or a MAYBE a draftee anyway. So if you're looking for a pure pass-rusher, even at similar cost to Vrabes, I think Taylor is likely going to be more effective than Mike would have been, in that role. And keep in mind, we don't know that Peppers could even project at three downs in his first year, so that would be the plan in almost any scenario, I would think.

Well, I was thinking of Taylor in a vacuum, leaving the Peppers situation out of it. As the team is currently constructed, I don't see there being a significant upgrade with Taylor over Vrabel if both come at equal money. One has familiarity and IMO better 3-down capability. The other has more talent, but less familiarity with the system and might only be good on 3rd down.

Now, it's entirely possible that the Pats traded Vrabel for cap space, with the idea that they were going to either A) get someone in the draft or B) trade for Peppers, and figured, "Well, if neither happens and we're left with a hole at OLB, we can always try to coax Taylor to our team."

That's a possible line of thinking, though seems kind of iffy.