A Wilfork/NT discussion

[signbabybrady]

Don't get me wrong I love Vince and I think he is a real special player.

My question is whether anyone else questions whether it is a good idea to shell out huge d-line money for a NT?

Thru the years we have had Seymour, Washington, Traylor, and Wilfork all play NT so while it is pivitol to have the cog at the nose I am not sure we need to spend huge money to get it.

Haynesworth got his money because of his ability to play the run and rush the passer. A NT doesn't do that and while I don't doubt Wilforks skills I think we could someone good enough to play nose without costing what Wilfork might.

Basically my question is do you think NT is as important/hard to replace as what we think Wilfork deserves/should be able to get in his next contract?

 

[jmt57]

I think in BB's scheme NT may be the number one most important position on the team. It all starts with pressure up the middle, followed by the play of the DE's, and then OLB's and ILB's.

So I would say yes, Wilfork is worth paying a lot of money for. It's not like some other positions where BB can plug in a JAG and there is no dramatic effect on the play.

 

[crowell33]

I believe Wilfork is the best 2 Down DT in the NFL. The 2009 Franchise number for DT's is approx. $6.0. The transition number is approx $5.5 million. Because he come off the field on 3rd down and does not rush the passer, $5.8 - $6.0 seems fair. Wilfork's 2009 cap charge is $2.8, so I am looking for an increase of approx $3.0 - $3.2per year average on a new deal.

 

[mayoclinic]

It's a good idea to shell out the money.

It's not about the sacks, or the stats. A great 3-4 NT is the core of the defense, and is very hard to find. We were lucky to get Vince. We'd be stupid to let him go. Try playing the 3-4 without a good NT and see what happens.

 

[Nestapats]

I agree with all the above mentioned comments. Besides all that i don't thnik Wilfork is going to demand Haynesworth type money. I've already heard once that he wasn't looking to get a big pay-day but that he really wants to be a patriot. If he does want top dollar we should give it to him, cause he's the most important part of our D-LIne and our IMO pretty good run-stopping defense

 

[Synovia]

Haynesworth got his money because of his ability to play the run and rush the passer. A NT doesn't do that and while I don't doubt Wilforks skills I think we could someone good enough to play nose without costing what Wilfork might.

Wilfork can't rush the passer? Teams still seem to need to put 2 players on him when they're throwing the ball.


Wilfork is SO GOOD that teams have to go out of their way to stop him. Its like the Randy Moss effect: People say Randy had a bad game because he had 3 receptions for 35 yards, while failing to realize that the team double covering him and floating a safety deep over that side led to Welker having 12 receptions for 140 yards and 2 TDs.

 

[spacecrime]

My question is whether anyone else questions whether it is a good idea to shell out huge d-line money for a NT?

Well, given the fact that NT is the key in a 3-4 defensive line, why would you question whether it is important to get a good one?

Saying we don't need to pay money to keep Wilfork because Traylor used to play NT is like saying we don't need to pay Mayo because Beisel used to play ILB.

I think NT in a 3-4 is more important thant he DTs in a 4-3 (where DEs are more critical).

I don't think Wilfork is worth Haynesworth money, but I don't think Haynesworth was worth Haynesworth money, either. I do think Wilfork is worth what Seymour is worth, probably more.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

NT is the KEY to the 3-4 the core of BB's D philosophy. Wilfork ancors the D line. Stops the run and yes, pressures the passer even while double teamed. He also tends to stay relatively healthy. He is the cornerstone to the D. Aside from TFB, Wilfork should be next in line for cap $. That is not to say that he could not somehow price himself off the value chart and depart or get Franchised. Unlikely but possible.

 

[Pats726]

Let's all hope they can get this done...THAT is what is important..really MORE SO than talking Peppers...

 

[Synovia]

Well, given the fact that NT is the key in a 3-4 defensive line, why would you question whether it is important to get a good one?

Saying we don't need to pay money to keep Wilfork because Traylor used to play NT is like saying we don't need to pay Mayo because Beisel used to play ILB.

I think NT in a 3-4 is more important thant he DTs in a 4-3 (where DEs are more critical).

I don't think Wilfork is worth Haynesworth money, but I don't think Haynesworth was worth Haynesworth money, either. I do think Wilfork is worth what Seymour is worth, probably more.

For the record, Haynsworth's contract is almost all fluff. Its essentially a 4 year, 48M guaranteed deal.

Thats not all that far off from Seymour making 9.5M a year on a contract thats now, what 4 years old?

 

[Leave No Doubt]

NT is the KEY to the 3-4 the core of BB's D philosophy. Wilfork ancors the D line. Stops the run and yes, pressures the passer even while double teamed. He also tends to stay relatively healthy. He is the cornerstone to the D. Aside from TFB, Wilfork should be next in line for cap $.

Post of the day.

 

[xmarkd400x]

Wilfork is worth a lot of money. He has excellent technique, fantastic size, and I can't remember the last time he missed a stretch of games due to injury or an off the field issue.

I'll put it this way: Vince Wilfork wins a 1 on 1 matchup against an offensive lineman EVERY TIME. That means that the rest of the defense, most of the time, is playing 10 on 9. That's worth a good chunk of change.

 

[signbabybrady]

Wilfork can't rush the passer? Teams still seem to need to put 2 players on him when they're throwing the ball.


Wilfork is SO GOOD that teams have to go out of their way to stop him. Its like the Randy Moss effect: People say Randy had a bad game because he had 3 receptions for 35 yards, while failing to realize that the team double covering him and floating a safety deep over that side led to Welker having 12 receptions for 140 yards and 2 TDs.

I am not saying Wilfork can't rush the passer I am saying you can get a really good NT who doesn't have that skill and will cost less. I am not questioning Wilforks skills or the importance of the NT position. I am just wondering if you need to shell out top dollar to fill it when we have filled the spot in different ways in the past.


If we got a Ted Washington or Keith Traylor type (which is easier said than done but..)for cheaper than Wilfork we could keep Seymour and might not lose out on much in the run game and we could use a situational rusher on pass downs which we already have a few of on the team.

Again I love Wilfork and I don't want to see him go. I am just wondering if it is wise to pay him freakish money. At the right price there is no one else I want and even at the wrong price but I guess maybe I am just trying to prepare myself for the possibilty that he will want to break the bank and that BB wont pay.....Hopefully he reups this offseason and gets a good deal that fits in with how BB works

 

[zero]

Yes big Vince is the most important piece in this defense, but I think he isn't going to ask for a Haynesworth's contract, but who knows, hopefully we can afford to extend him soon

 

[Ochmed Jones]

A 3-4 NT is the centerpiece of the the 3-4 defense and they are very hard to find. If Wilfork's agent is not going to be cheated out of a big payday. Two things to consider.

1.) A lot more 3-4 teams popping up and those teams are going to need a NT.

2.) Existing 3-4 teams with aging NT, San Diego and Pittsburgh are going to need replacements soon and that stresses the demand for NT's.

I see BB having to part with some serious cash to keep Wilfork, because we will be willing the SB in February 2010, that means the #32 spot, which gives us a minimal chance at drafting Mount Cody.

 

[Raymond]

As most here have said. Wilfork is key here on this D line. I do believe BB probably agrees with this.

As 09 winds down, they'll have to pay him and this must happen. We'll likely lose Seymour, but this years draft will IMO address that. We can't pay them both.

 

[JMarr]

Again I love Wilfork and I don't want to see him go. I am just wondering if it is wise to pay him freakish money. At the right price there is no one else I want and even at the wrong price but I guess maybe I am just trying to prepare myself for the possibilty that he will want to break the bank and that BB wont pay.....Hopefully he reups this offseason and gets a good deal that fits in with how BB works

Being that BB has shown that he never overpays, this is a great topic for discussion. TFB would be playing elsewhere right now had he insisted on making Peyton Manning money.

I think Vince is smart and he and the Pats will work out a contract that will more than adequately feed his family.

 

[satz]

Some delusion is here you cannot replace seymour like in a draft.then every team running a 3-4 will have a seymour type players. vince is the same way the only 2 NT who came out are nata and vince in quiet a few years. so NT are rare then even QB.

Old ted type players were easy to get years ago not now look like shaun rogers,jenkins players who are big slower DT who are good but not for a season. they fade at game 10.

i do not see another option ..for now.it took vince a few yrs to play his position well too so if he has to be replaced his replacement would have been in the team by now just like vince shared his time for a 1 yr before stepping in.

 

[Lord_Reginald_III]

no joke, vince is key. how much he plays seems to depend on the formation -- around 70% if we stick to a base 3/4, or WAY less if we go a lot of sub packages (33% against Indy last november). but he makes such a mess of things when onfield the pats are probably looking to pony up. in addition to the double teams, etc, his vertical quickness is pretty freakish. for a guy that size he covers a ridiculous amount of the field and sticks with plays. plus he's funny as hell on CSN or WEEI.

 

[signbabybrady]

Being that BB has shown that he never overpays, this is a great topic for discussion. TFB would be playing elsewhere right now had he insisted on making Peyton Manning money.

I think Vince is smart and he and the Pats will work out a contract that will more than adequately feed his family.

Thank You for seeing what I was really trying to say.

Not trying to down play Wilfork or the importance of NT........