Alphonso Smith or Darius Butler?

[bakes781]

With the offseason additions of Springs and Bodden, CB wouldn't seem like a 1st day need. But if the value is there they probably wouldn't pass it up. Early on the favorite amongst most was Alphonso Smith, but after the combine Darius Butler has seen his stock climb. Assuming Malcolm Jenkins isn't there at #23, who do you like better?

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't want a CB on the first day of the draft at all. But if I had to pick one, Smith seems to be the perfect Pats type of ballhawking CB. It's close, because Butler has slightly better footwork, speed and size. But Smith's ball skills and instincts win out.

I still think if we are going CB I would take Sean Smith over both. But again, I don't want a CB. OL, LB, S and DL are greater priorities right now.

 

[Warren94]

Jarius Byrd, Oregon

 

[condon84]

I'd take Butler. He's also got the size to play safety and is just as fast and athletic. He looked great in the ball-skills drill at the combine and showed great run support during the season. Don't get me wrong, I love Alphonso Smith, but if I were to choose, I'd pick Butler because of his versatility. Plus, Butler played some offense with UConn and was the best playmaker on it even when they had Donald Brown.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

I like them both and Butler reminds me of Sam Madison, but I prefer Smith b/c he's more talented and can do more.

Good poll, btw.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

With a 7.09 3 cone drill time, it is hard to see A Smith thriving in our soft zone defense where he would be forced to break on the ball continually.

Butler seems like a much better fit for what the Pats CB do play in and play out.

 

[bakes781]

With a 7.09 3 cone drill time, it is hard to see A Smith thriving in our soft zone defense where he would be forced to break on the ball continually.

Butler seems like a much better fit for what the Pats CB do play in and play out.

I would agree. He'd probably be a plan C at #23, but I'd jump on him if he was there at #34.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Jarius Byrd, Oregon

That would be my choice in the 2nd round. I woudl also take Sean Smith.

 

[Warren94]

Another guy I like is Rashard Johnson from Alabama. I don't think Rodney is coming back unless he's a guy we sign after week 10 or so

 

[spann31]

dj more or sean smith

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Another guy I like is Rashard Johnson from Alabama. I don't think Rodney is coming back unless he's a guy we sign after week 10 or so

Johnson is purely a smallish FS. However he does possess incredible ball skills. Not sure if his body can handle the punishment over a 16 game schedule, but he does add a lot of value as a playmaker in the secondary.

 

[dryheat44]

I like both of them, but I'll opt for the higher upside, which is Butler. If we needed an immediate starter, I might think differently. I also like Macho Harris better than most.

 

[bakes781]

One thing I'd like to point out in this debate, is at the NFL Combine Darius Butler had a vertical jump of 43 inches! Compare that to Vontae Davis' 36, Alphonso's 34 and Malcolm Jenkins 33. Obviously a lot of the Combine #s can be useless, but when it comes to defending the pass I'd say the vertical jump is a pretty good tool to go by.

 

[Nestapats]

D.J. Moore, love his versatility.

 

[Seneschal2]

I voted other, because I'm high on both Smith and Butler.

From my observations, Smith clearly has the best ball skills of all CB prospects. I think he'd step right into the Pats sub-packages immediately, and would excel covering the slot. But long term, and if Hobbs were to depart next season, I'd prefer Butler to man that side of the field.

I'm predicting we won't draft either one though, as our first pick is reserved for someone else.

Even though we've addressed the CB position via two veteran signings, I still believe we'll select a CB in late round two, or early on day two. Keep in mind that BB has addressed the Pats CB position twice in round two, twice in round three, and once in round four. I call it his pet position, as he knows the position very well, knows he can find the necessary skills to play the position in non-first-round prospects. And in this draft, there happens to be those skills in two or three prospects, who IMHO fit the Pats profile.

The key for deciding which CB to consider is Hobbs. I'm a Hobbs fan, so I don't suggest we outright demote him. But contractually speaking, if there's a good chance he'll depart for more $$$, than drafting a CB with starter potential may be necessary, rather than just a nickel back. Of course, if Bodden and Wheatley can handle the roles (and Bodden stays), than this point is moot (or mute) if you prefer.

 

[bakes781]

And in this draft, there happens to be those skills in two or three prospects, who IMHO fit the Pats profile.

Who are those prospects IYHO?

 

[patchick]

I love A. Smith's ball skills and field awareness, but I have regretfully crossed him off my 1st-round value list.

I'm ok with short CBs. I'm even ok with short CBs without fabulous straight-line speed. But when a short guy with average speed also puts up average numbers on the cone, shuttle, and vertical, the time comes to worry, IMO. Quickness and leaping ability are what the little guys usually rely on most.

For a sobering comparison, check out these two measurable lines:

5-09 193 4.47/2.60/1.50 13 34" 10'05" 4.38 7.09
5-09 192 4.45/2.61/1.55 12 42" 10'04" 4.07 6.80

They're astonishingly similar except for the 3 figures in bold...which are pretty much the only 3 I really care about in a CB. The first is A. Smith, the 2nd was a certain smurf drafted in the 3rd round in 2005.

Can Smith be a good player? Almost certainly. But value at #23? I really can't see it.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I love A. Smith's ball skills and field awareness, but I have regretfully crossed him off my 1st-round value list.

I'm ok with short CBs. I'm even ok with short CBs without fabulous straight-line speed. But when a short guy with average speed also puts up average numbers on the cone, shuttle, and vertical, the time comes to worry, IMO. Quickness and leaping ability are what the little guys usually rely on most.

For a sobering comparison, check out these two measurable lines:

5-09 193 4.47/2.60/1.50 13 34" 10'05" 4.38 7.09
5-09 192 4.45/2.61/1.55 12 42" 10'04" 4.07 6.80

They're astonishingly similar except for the 3 figures in bold...which are pretty much the only 3 I really care about in a CB. The first is A. Smith, the 2nd was a certain smurf drafted in the 3rd round in 2005.

Can Smith be a good player? Almost certainly. But value at #23? I really can't see it.

I suppose he also doesn't compare as well with Asante whom I'd consider a closer match in terms of ball skills? Like you, I've reclassified him as a round two value with the expectation he would slip...and I think NE can find some good Day Two prospects to groom on the Practice Squad.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I suppose he also doesn't compare as well with Asante whom I'd consider a closer match in terms of ball skills? Like you, I've reclassified him as a round two value with the expectation he would slip...and I think NE can find some good Day Two prospects to groom on the Practice Squad.

I saw Samuel play in college and I can honestly say, I did not see great ball skills, not like a Lowery or A Smith. And even as a rookie and sophomore with the Pats, I did not see it, but by year three when he finally felt comfotable in the defense, then he started gambling on jumping routes and he got better and better at it.

He became a self made draft success story.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I loveFor a sobering comparison, check out these two measurable lines:

5-09 193 4.47/2.60/1.50 13 34" 10'05" 4.38 7.09
5-09 192 4.45/2.61/1.55 12 42" 10'04" 4.07 6.80

They're astonishingly similar except for the 3 figures in bold...which are pretty much the only 3 I really care about in a CB. The first is A. Smith, the 2nd was a certain smurf drafted in the 3rd round in 2005.

Can Smith be a good player? Almost certainly. But value at #23? I really can't see it.

This is what I have been saying all along. There are DB's in this draft that can be had in the 3rd and 4th round that are less heralded, but when you watch their tape, look at their numbers and project them, they make a ton of sense to go after as opposed to spending high draft picks on slightly more polished guys.

This is true especially when you consider that guys we take generally are going to play ST and get a year or two to sit and develop.

A perfect example is FS Bruton of Notre Dame. He is less heralded than Delmas or Johnson, but his game projects very well in our system and he can be had for only a 3rd or 4th round pick.