Schefter: Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

[JSn]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Maybe Schefter's been into the sauce this morning, hehe.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Because, until he signs it, there is always the option of rescinding it, freeing up 14M of space, and getting a 2010 3rd round comp pick.

Yeah, and again, why would the Patriots franchise Cassel and then rescind the offer a month later? It doesn't make any sense. If they were going to do that, the Pats were going to expedite the trade process whether or not Cassel signed the tender offer.

Beside, you don't know if the Pats would get third round compensation. Compensation is determined by a formula that includes the new contract, whether the player's new team goes to the playoffs (not likely for the Chiefs this year, but possible) and how far they go, and individual awards for the player (Pro Bowl, All Pro, MVP). The Pats would probably get a fourth for Cassel unless the Chiefs went to the playoffs and Cassel went to the Pro Bowl.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

First, teams have pulled tenders in the past. Signing the tender eliminates that scenario.
Second, considering the Pats cap issues, if the trade process lingered to the point that desired free agents were being scooped up by other teams, the Patriots may have concluded that signing the right TE, RB, CB, CB/S had more value than acquiring the highest draft pick possible. Signing the tender forced the Patriots to expedite the process, and it did.

Borg - While you are correct that teams have retracted the tender offer, I think that you'll find that most did so because they came to terms with that player prior to the start of free agency. I can't think of a single scenario where a team pulled the tender and the player walked. If you have an example, please share it.

I have to disagree with you that Cassel signing the tender FORCED the Patriots to move quicker than they wanted. In fact, I am going to submit the opposite. I think that Cassel signing the tender ALLOWED the Pats to move more quickly and get the players they wanted. Had Cassel not signed the tender, no team would have traded for him without a long term deal. That ties up 14.61 million of the Pats and takes away a lot of their leverage. The tender being signed allowed them to ship Cassel wherever they wanted. The fact that they shipped him and Vrabel to KC during the 1st week of free agency. This freed up over 18 million in cap space and allowed the Pats to make an even bigger splash into free agency than they anticipated.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

This all sounds like a bunch of BS to me. The Pats placed the tag on him on the first possible day. And Cassell signed it on the very next day. Then they traded him on the very first day that they could. I thought it was a little odd at the time that he signed the tender when most franchised players usually wait a long time sign it. But it retrospect, I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 sides had an agreement in place as soon as Pioli became KC GM.

This is false. There were actually 2 full days of free agency that took place before Cassel was traded.

Also, its pretty clear from the interviews that Cassel and his agents were under a misconception about what leverage signing the tender gave them.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

This is false. There were actually 2 full days of free agency that took place before Cassel was traded...

Vrabel was already taking his physical at 2:30 pm on the first day of free agency, and the deal was announced that same day. They just didn't announce the complete deal right away. We can speculate that there might have been an "i" to dot or something, but the deal was made on day 1.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Because, until he signs it, there is always the option of rescinding it, freeing up 14M of space, and getting a 2010 3rd round comp pick.

Teams typically only rescind the tag if the player is about to sign a long term deal before the start of free agency. This would them allow them to place the tag on another free agent.

If you have an example of a team rescinding the tag other than prior to the start of free agency, please give it.

 

[Patsrock]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

This is false. There were actually 2 full days of free agency that took place before Cassel was traded.

Also, its pretty clear from the interviews that Cassel and his agents were under a misconception about what leverage signing the tender gave them.

There was one full day. FA started Feb 27th, he was traded on Feb 28th.

 

[borg]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

The only player I have ever heard of having his tender rescinded was Jerrimiah Trotter and he was an unique case because most people thought he was a product of the Eagles system (which looked to be a correct assumption). They rescinded the tag in June or July.

Also, how did signing the tender expedite the process? When the Pats offer the tender, the money is taken off the cap whether Cassel signs it or not. I don't see how the Pats were in any different position when they traded Cassel when they traded him. It wasn't like they were going to franchise him in February and then recind the tag the first or second week of March.

Sure, it hits the cap either way. But signing the tender eliminates one of the Patriots 3 options....trade, keep, cut. I'm sure BB likes to have options...

That being said, I am a part of the conspiracy contingent that believes that this deal was done weeks prior to free agency and this *********** exercise is meaningless. As the old saying goes (in the courtroom), "Never ask a question you don't know the answer to." My bet that Pioil, BB, Cassel and Dunn had this deal done long ago and Cassel took the no nonsense approach and signed the tender immediately.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

This is not accurate. Vrabel was already taking his physical at 2:30 pm on the first day of free agency, and the deal was announced that same day. They just didn't announce the complete deal right away. We can speculate that there might have been an "i" to dot or something, but the deal was made on day 1.

Actually, it is accurate. From my understanding, the Vrabel deal was originally a separate deal, but one the pats and chiefs rolled together as part of the Cassel deal after the fact.

We can speculate that it wasn't, but we'll never truly know.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Yeah, and again, why would the Patriots franchise Cassel and then rescind the offer a month later? It doesn't make any sense. If they were going to do that, the Pats were going to expedite the trade process whether or not Cassel signed the tender offer.

Beside, you don't know if the Pats would get third round compensation. Compensation is determined by a formula that includes the new contract, whether the player's new team goes to the playoffs (not likely for the Chiefs this year, but possible) and how far they go, and individual awards for the player (Pro Bowl, All Pro, MVP). The Pats would probably get a fourth for Cassel unless the Chiefs went to the playoffs and Cassel went to the Pro Bowl.

Rob - Sorry, but the primary factor is the size of the contract. All you have to do is read any one of AdamJT13's Comp Pick prediction threads to know this.

Cassel would have been a 3rd round comp regardless of any of the other things you mentioned.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Yeah, and again, why would the Patriots franchise Cassel and then rescind the offer a month later? It doesn't make any sense. .

Because they misjudged the trade market. If it wasn't looking like a deal could happen quickly, and you were going to miss the entire FA period, it might be worth having a pick move back a round to free up 14M of cap space during FA.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Actually, it is accurate. From my understanding, the Vrabel deal was originally a separate deal, but one the pats and chiefs rolled together as part of the Cassel deal after the fact.

We can speculate that it wasn't, but we'll never truly know.

This runs completely counter to everything (or almost everything) that the "defenders" of the trade and the trade's timing have written and said. One of the selling points for them has been that Vrabel's cap numbers came off as part of the deal.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Teams typically only rescind the tag if the player is about to sign a long term deal before the start of free agency. This would them allow them to place the tag on another free agent.

If you have an example of a team rescinding the tag other than prior to the start of free agency, please give it.

Whether or not it has happened is irrelevant: the clause is there.



Trotter: Tag was rescinded, signed with washington.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Rob - Sorry, but the primary factor is the size of the contract. All you have to do is read any one of AdamJT13's Comp Pick prediction threads to know this.

Cassel would have been a 3rd round comp regardless of any of the other things you mentioned.

Well that is assuming that Cassel would get a deal that some are expecting. If he didn't get nearly as much as people expected, it could be less. It is still an assumption that the Pats would get a third even if my info is wrong, just a much better assumption.

Either way, cutting Cassel and getting a low third isn't enough for the Pats to resind the offer where they could have easily gotten a low 2 at worst even if this deal didn't go through.

 

[mojocaster.com]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

If this is true it is simply astonishing, and the agent should face discipline.

Agreed.

You have to know the CBA as well as the average messageboard poster!

Or maybe even a tad better

 

[bucky]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

This is false. There were actually 2 full days of free agency that took place before Cassel was traded.

Also, its pretty clear from the interviews that Cassel and his agents were under a misconception about what leverage signing the tender gave them.

First day of FA was Friday. And while the Cassell trade wasn't announced until later, it's been widely reported that the trade was agreed to on Friday afternoon.

In terms of Cassell being under "misconception", what interviews are you referring to?

 

[bucky]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Actually, it is accurate. From my understanding, the Vrabel deal was originally a separate deal, but one the pats and chiefs rolled together as part of the Cassel deal after the fact.

We can speculate that it wasn't, but we'll never truly know.

Unless your "understanding" is based on something factual, your statement is actually INaccurate.

 

[solman]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Rob - Sorry, but the primary factor is the size of the contract. All you have to do is read any one of AdamJT13's Comp Pick prediction threads to know this.

Cassel would have been a 3rd round comp regardless of any of the other things you mentioned.

On the draft pick value chart (which needs to be revised, but not in a way that materially impacts this analysis), #34 is worth 560 points while #97 is worth 112 points.

It would be fair to say that a compensatory pick for a highly compensated player is worth 20% of what we got from the Chiefs.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Because they misjudged the trade market. If it wasn't looking like a deal could happen quickly, and you were going to miss the entire FA period, it might be worth having a pick move back a round to free up 14M of cap space during FA.

Huh?!? Even if they did misjudge the trade market (a theory I don't neccessarily agree with), it wasn't like there was no market for Cassel. It just means the Pats had to settle for the 34th pick rather than a first and another pick.

Besides, again Cassel signing the tender offer had no effect because it wasn't like the Pats had to settle on compensation less than they would have gotten in a compensatory pick if they released him. If the Pats traded Cassel for a fifth rounder, then Cassel signing the tender offer forced the Pats to act quickly.

Again, I am sure Belichick is peissed that Cassel forced his hand and made him take the 34th pick in the 2009 draft when he really wanted to resind the tender offer so he could have gotten something like the 97th pick in the 2010 draft as a compensatory pick. That is is the logic behind saying that Cassel signing the tender offer made Belichick make a quick trade.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Adam Schefter Cassel misunderstood what signing the tender meant

Not completely true: they would have received a 3rd round comp pick for him.

Miguel could clarify this, but the CBA specifically says there is no compensation if a franchise tag is rescinded, which leads me to believe that such a player is not eligible for a comp pick at all.

Teams typically only rescind the tag if the player is about to sign a long term deal before the start of free agency. This would them allow them to place the tag on another free agent.

If you have an example of a team rescinding the tag other than prior to the start of free agency, please give it.

The franchise period ends about a week before the start of FA. You might be able to reuse the tag within that period, but certainly not after it.

Rob - Sorry, but the primary factor is the size of the contract. All you have to do is read any one of AdamJT13's Comp Pick prediction threads to know this.

Cassel would have been a 3rd round comp regardless of any of the other things you mentioned.

Well, that's assuming he would get $7M+/yr as a UFA. If he got less than that, then it wouldn't be a third. It would also be dependent on the other FAs the Pats signed (although, since they haven't signed any UFAs that count against them, that point would be moot).