My thoughts on financial viability of possible Peppers trade

[drakesta101]

I emailed Mike Riess to get his thoughts on the possible trade. Go ahead and do the same if you like ( [email protected] ) I know the email doesnt look official and I would be suspect as well. But Mike Riess AGREES with my interpretation of the situation.

Name Nick
City/Town Worcester, MA

Opinion: With all of the hooplah surrounding the potential deal for Julius Peppers, I think it might be a good idea to explain how it might actually be possible. It is my general understanding that if a deal is consummated between a two teams involving a franchised player, the team receiving the player (the Patriots) would have to have enough cap space to take on the player's franchise figure (about 17 mill). This number is the number the team HAS to have available, regardless of any restructured deal being worked out after the fact.

Is a "sign-and-trade" a possibility? I was pretty sure that the team trading the player HAS to give the franchised player a long-term deal that is greater than or equal the amount of the franchise tender during the year of the franchise designation....(2009 figure of the deal has to be at least 17 million)...



EDIT: After reading the CBA franchise tag info, there is nothing that guarentees the cap franchise tag number if an new contract is reached with Julius Peppers...a "sign-and-trade" is a possibility...

http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/CBA_Amended_2006.pdf

In light of all of this, how then is it even possible that this deal could go through? Don't the Patriots NEED to relieve about 10 mill in cap space for this to even be plausible?

---

Right on, nick. you are on your way to becoming an NFL personnel man with this line of thinking.

--mike

 

[eom]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

my only question is why you are so intent on getting mike reiss to submit.

 

[drakesta101]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

my only question is why you are so intent on getting mike reiss to submit.

What do you mean? I felt like asking someone with a credentialed background and an understanding of the complexities of the NFL salary cap....like I said email him yourself....but this is the real thing..

 

[wdkantro2]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

Interesting. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like re-allocate a bonus of another player to another year to get under the $17.5. Once there, they restructure Peppers, and give the other player his bonus back to this year.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

From the get go, Mike Reiss didn't think this trade will happen. Well, this trade is going to happen. People need to stop with this "financial" crap because any team can get any player if they really want to. There are many loopholes in contracts teams take advantage of to sign big name players and then plan on cutting them when their price tag gets too high. I have said this in previous posts, if the NFL becomes "uncapped", it will not effect the Pats. In fact, it will only help. A prime example is the Yankees. Every year, people are pissed that the Yankess sign whoever they want. Why? Because they are the most recognizable team in baseball. Money grows on trees for the Yankees and the Pats aren't far behind. Small market teams are f***** if the NFL becomes uncapped.

So to answer your question, the Pats will find a way to fit Peppers under the cap for this year. That is the only thing they have to worry about. After that, it's up to Kraft if he wants to pay for players he wants.

 

[APatrioticVirginian]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

Im calling shenannigans

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

my only question is why you are so intent on getting mike reiss to submit.

What do you mean? I felt like asking someone with a credentialed background and an understanding of the complexities of the NFL salary cap....like I said email him yourself....but this is the real thing..

He means this.

In light of all of this, how then is it even possible that this deal could go through? Don't the Patriots NEED to relieve about 10 mill in cap space for this to even be plausible?
Submit Submit

BTW--one minor point: there is no explicit rule regarding the size of the new contract. [And, BTW, there's even a clause that allows the player to take 120% of his prior year salary, even if that is lower than the official franchise number.]

 

[eom]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

Interesting. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like re-allocate a bonus of another player to another year to get under the $17.5. Once there, they restructure Peppers, and give the other player his bonus back to this year.

I believe you only get to restructure once per 12 mos.

 

[drakesta101]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

He means this.


BTW--one minor point: there is no explicit rule regarding the size of the new contract. [And, BTW, there's even a clause that allows the player to take 120% of his prior year salary, even if that is lower than the official franchise number.]

would you like a forward of the email? I guess I need a confidant on this one

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

would you like a forward of the email? I guess I need a confidant on this one

Sure. PM me.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I don't know a lot about contracts, but I thought that if a player signed the tender before a certain date, the team could ink a long term deal with him. Once done, they could trade him and all that franchise stuff is out the window. Isn't this how it is often done?

 

[Joker]

I emailed Mike Riess to get his thoughts on the possible trade. Go ahead and do the same if you like ( [email protected] ) I know the email doesnt look official and I would be suspect as well. But Mike Riess AGREES with my interpretation of the situation.

Right on, nick. you are on your way to becoming an NFL personnel man with this line of thinking.

--mike

Uh...if this is all Reiss wrote you back, it reads to ME as if he's giving you a pat on the back but there's NOTHING there by him other than his gratuitous pat on the back. Seems to me it's VERY VERY important that this deal NOT be done as far as YOU are concerned. Why is that?

 

[NePatriots]

I don't know a lot about contracts, but I thought that if a player signed the tender before a certain date, the team could ink a long term deal with him. Once done, they could trade him and all that franchise stuff is out the window. Isn't this how it is often done?

Perhaps Miguel can again instruct us in the ways of the force here, but IIRC the PLAYER has to sign the tender to be traded, and that the receiving TEAM has to have the cap space to initially take that $17 mil tender before they rip it up and sign the long-term deal.

 

[eom]

I can't believe that.
why can't they sign him to a longer term deal and then trade him?

the only question i'd have would be the details on that.
for example, a staple of a lot of these deals would normally be a signing bonus, so do you just pay him salary in '09, and how high does that have to be to make it worth his while?

 

[pats1]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

From the get go, Mike Reiss didn't think this trade will happen. Well, this trade is going to happen. People need to stop with this "financial" crap because any team can get any player if they really want to. There are many loopholes in contracts teams take advantage of to sign big name players and then plan on cutting them when their price tag gets too high. I have said this in previous posts, if the NFL becomes "uncapped", it will not effect the Pats. In fact, it will only help. A prime example is the Yankees. Every year, people are pissed that the Yankess sign whoever they want. Why? Because they are the most recognizable team in baseball. Money grows on trees for the Yankees and the Pats aren't far behind. Small market teams are f***** if the NFL becomes uncapped.

So to answer your question, the Pats will find a way to fit Peppers under the cap for this year. That is the only thing they have to worry about. After that, it's up to Kraft if he wants to pay for players he wants.

The NFL isn't going to "become" uncapped. The "final uncapped year" is a specific term in the CBA, and it always has been. There is only one uncapped year. After that, there is no CBA, and thus there's no season. Lockout. That's not an uncapped year, that's a zero-cap year.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, of course. The tender is signed. The contract is renegotiated and the trade is made. The new team needs to have the cap room for the new contract. HOWEVER, please understand that any bonus is paid by the original team.

Option 2 is for a team to give Carolina a pick to remove the franchise tag, making the player a free agent. Since the team (as any team can) has already negotiated a deal with Peppers, the deal can now be executed.

I can't believe that.
why can't they sign him to a longer term deal and then trade him?

the only question i'd have would be the details on that.
for example, a staple of a lot of these deals would normally be a signing bonus, so do you just pay him salary in '09, and how high does that have to be to make it worth his while?

 

[Grizzafted]

The problem with the premise of this argument is, Peppers hasn't signed the franchise tender yet. So technically, any dealings that may happen aren't necessarily going to be within the framework of a franchise trade. This is probably why he's refused to sign, and it would explain the Panthers' statement today. I have no idea what the wiggle room here is legally, according to the CBA, but technically the Panthers could just withdraw the offer, which hasn't been signed yet, and the Patriots ship them the 34th pick. Peppers at that point already has a deal on the table with the Pats, conditional on the franchise tag having been lifted, and he's a free agent suddenly with a deal on the table from the Pats. I can see a few areas of exposure here for the Pats, but it's the most feasible possibility provided we want to go with "where there's smoke there's fire" as regards to the original article.

In this scenario, there would have to have been some communication perhaps between the Pats and Carolina regarding the swap of no.34 for the un-franchising of Peppers.

 

[drakesta101]

Yes, of course. The tender is signed. The contract is renegotiated and the trade is made. The new team needs to have the cap room for the new contract. HOWEVER, please understand that any bonus is paid by the original team.

Option 2 is for a team to give Carolina a pick to remove the franchise tag, making the player a free agent. Since the team (as any team can) has already negotiated a deal with Peppers, the deal can now be executed.

This is the tricky part...I am 90% certain the new contract has to be equal to or exceed the value of the franchise tender in the year the franchise tender would have been in affect...

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I can't believe that.
why can't they sign him to a longer term deal and then trade him?

the only question i'd have would be the details on that.
for example, a staple of a lot of these deals would normally be a signing bonus, so do you just pay him salary in '09, and how high does that have to be to make it worth his while?

My underdstanding is that even if the tender is signed, the Panthers can sign him to a long term deal and then trade him, at least until a certain date (July something?). After that date the player cannot sign a long-term deal and any trade would have to absorb the franchise tag salary amount, and moreover the team getting him can't even sign him to a long-term deal.

 

[drakesta101]

The problem with the premise of this argument is, Peppers hasn't signed the franchise tender yet. So technically, any dealings that may happen aren't necessarily going to be within the framework of a franchise trade. This is probably why he's refused to sign, and it would explain the Panthers' statement today. I have no idea what the wiggle room here is legally, according to the CBA, but technically the Panthers could just withdraw the offer, which hasn't been signed yet, and the Patriots ship them the 34th pick. Peppers at that point already has a deal on the table with the Pats, conditional on the franchise tag having been lifted, and he's a free agent suddenly with a deal on the table from the Pats. I can see a few areas of exposure here for the Pats, but it's the most feasible possibility provided we want to go with "where there's smoke there's fire" as regards to the original article.

In this scenario, there would have to have been some communication perhaps between the Pats and Carolina regarding the swap of no.34 for the un-franchising of Peppers.

This could happen...its never happened before...but I'm sure it would have to be in writing somewhere that the Pats can negotiate with him exclusively.