There is no way Hanson makes this team!

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Ok, I'm throwing down the annual gauntlet in honor of the original "There is no way David Patten makes this team" thread... for those who remember.

Unfortunately, I'm targeting the punter and who cares about punters?

Still, here are my arguments for dumping Hanson:

With our offense, we don't punt very often. But when we do, it is usually from around midfield or so... where you are trying to pin the opponent inside their 20 yard line.

Hanson is not good at this (in fact, only 4 punters in the entire league were worse than him at this.

********************************************

Inside the numbers:

At first glance, you see that 40% of his punts resulted in the opponent left inside their 20 yard line and it appears impressive. Then you realize that 60% of his punts where these sort of punts and he screwed up 10 of them, resulting in TBs (or 33.3% failure rate).

Most punters aren't lucky enough to be in that position on 60% of their punts. If they were, then the statistics show that almost all of them would have better "inside the 20" numbers than Hanson.

**********************************************

Due to our offensive success, I think we should bring in someone else to compete with Hanson other than Malone... maybe a low draft pick.

Preferably someone with better skill at pinning the opponent down inside their 20 yard line.

Raw distance is probably of less importance to us... an area where Hanson is only mediocre anyway.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Here is some more NE punting info:

Facts:

50 punts: 9 OutBnds, 7 Dwnd, 10 TchBcks, 13 FairCtch, 11 Rtrnd
Longest punt: 70 yds
Average punt: 44 yds (Tied for 15th)
Net Average: 36.8 yds (20th)
20 punts resulted in oppenent inside their 20 yd line (27th - see info below)
0 TDs
0 Blocked punts

Positives:

40% of all punts were a FC or Dwnd and an additional 10% (9 punts out of bounds) were probably coffin kicks.

40% of punts left the opponent inside their own 20 yd line.

No punts were blocked or returned for TDs.


Negatives:

20% of Hanson's punts were TBs (10 TBs on 50 punts). Unacceptable!

33.3% of his punts that were targeted for inside the 20 yd line resulted in TBs (10 out of 30).
-- That ranks 27th in the league. Only 4 teams had a worse %. Sea was tied with us.
-- The best: Colts 8.7%, Bengels: 10.7%, and Bears: 12.5%

14+ yds/punt average return is bad.

Net average punt of 36.8 yds ranks 20th in the league.
-- Note: 60% of Hanson's punts were targeted for inside the 20 yd line which will skew towards shorter punts.

 

[Synovia]

-- That ranks 27th in the league. Only 4 teams had a worse %. Sea was tied with us. .

Great, but is there any evidence that touchback percentage on punts is a stat that correlates to future performance?


We already KNOW that field goal accuracy doesnt, and that kickoff distance is more important. Do we know that we're not looking at the same case with punts?



(also, I think I20 is a bad stat. A punt that goes out at the 15 is only marginally better than a touchback. I10 would be much more usefull, but its not tracked. )

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Great, but is there any evidence that touchback percentage on punts is a stat that correlates to future performance?

(also, I think I20 is a bad stat. A punt that goes out at the 15 is only marginally better than a touchback. I10 would be much more usefull, but its not tracked. )

I don't have an answer for your first question. I haven't looked at historical data to see if punters are consitent in their performance concerning pinning down opponents vice kicking touch backs. My guess is that some punters are consistently good at it and others are consistently bad or just plain inconsistent in general.

I would agree that the I20 stat can be misleading. I'd like to see an I20 and an I10 stat together. Still won't paint the full picture, but it would be better than just having one of them.

 

[Synovia]

My guess is that some punters are consistently good at it and others are consistently bad or just plain inconsistent in general.

My guess would be the same, but who knows

( and I think Hanson sucks)

 

[Synovia]

I would agree that the I20 stat can be misleading. I'd like to see an I20 and an I10 stat together. Still won't paint the full picture, but it would be better than just having one of them.

My biggest issue with the I20 stat is all those punts from the 35-40 yard line that guys shank and end up stopping at the 18. If you only gained 17-22 yards on a punt, it wasn't worth punting.

 

[swheeler23]

Brady will stuggle some when he comes back. Does everyone just expect him to continue like he did in 2007?

 

[ScottieC]

Ok, I'm throwing down the annual gauntlet in honor of the original "There is no way David Patten makes this team" thread... for those who remember.

Unfortunately, I'm targeting the punter and who cares about punters?

Still, here are my arguments for dumping Hanson:

With our offense, we don't punt very often. But when we do, it is usually from around midfield or so... where you are trying to pin the opponent inside their 20 yard line.

Hanson is not good at this (in fact, only 4 punters in the entire league were worse than him at this.

********************************************

Inside the numbers:

At first glance, you see that 40% of his punts resulted in the opponent left inside their 20 yard line and it appears impressive. Then you realize that 60% of his punts where these sort of punts and he screwed up 10 of them, resulting in TBs (or 33.3% failure rate).

Most punters aren't lucky enough to be in that position on 60% of their punts. If they were, then the statistics show that almost all of them would have better "inside the 20" numbers than Hanson.

**********************************************

Due to our offensive success, I think we should bring in someone else to compete with Hanson other than Malone... maybe a low draft pick.

Preferably someone with better skill at pinning the opponent down inside their 20 yard line.

Raw distance is probably of less importance to us... an area where Hanson is only mediocre anyway.

I don't see Bill taking a chance - That said, he will bring in a few guys to compete for the job, like last year and in the end Hanson will make the team.

 

[DaBruinz]

Here is some more NE punting info:

Facts:

50 punts: 9 OutBnds, 7 Dwnd, 10 TchBcks, 13 FairCtch, 11 Rtrnd
Longest punt: 70 yds
Average punt: 44 yds (Tied for 15th)
Net Average: 36.8 yds (20th)
20 punts resulted in oppenent inside their 20 yd line (27th - see info below)
0 TDs
0 Blocked punts

Positives:

40% of all punts were a FC or Dwnd and an additional 10% (9 punts out of bounds) were probably coffin kicks.

I'm pretty good at math and 9 of 50 is not 10% but 18%. Also, it should be noted that he had the fewest punts returned in the league for punters with more than 40 punts with 11 or 22% of his punts.

40% of punts left the opponent inside their own 20 yd line.

No punts were blocked or returned for TDs.


Negatives:

20% of Hanson's punts were TBs (10 TBs on 50 punts). Unacceptable! Why is this unacceptable? How many of those punts should have been stopped inside the 5 by the coverage unit?

33.3% of his punts that were targeted for inside the 20 yd line resulted in TBs (10 out of 30). Where did you dig up this information? According to Hansen's Situational stats on NFL.Com, he had 14 punts from inside the opponents 50. Only 1 of 14 were returned. And 8 of 14 were downed inside the 20. Hanson had 29 punts from between the Pats 21 and the Pats 50. Of those punts, 8 were returned and 11 landed inside the 20.
-- That ranks 27th in the league. Only 4 teams had a worse %. Sea was tied with us.
-- The best: Colts 8.7%, Bengels: 10.7%, and Bears: 12.5%

14+ yds/punt average return is bad.

Punt return yardage is as much about the coverage team play as it is the punter. You heaping ALL the blame on Hanson is BS.

Net average punt of 36.8 yds ranks 20th in the league.
-- Note: 60% of Hanson's punts were targeted for inside the 20 yd line which will skew towards shorter punts.

Where did you get the stats that say that 60% of Hanson's punts were targeted for inside the 20?

 

[RoughingthePasser]

I disagree with the OP's thread.
There is still a way for Hanson to make the team.
I liked your observation on his short punting-I haven't seen enough of his punts to make a judgment on accuracy but he can handle distance well.
I'm sure we'll look at others too.

 

[Holy Diver]

Ha....

I still think David Patten makes the team.

 

[bradydaman29]

I've always felt that it's a waste of a roster spot for someone who just kicks!!

The only time you need a punter that can really boot the ball is when it's 4th down inside your own 35.

If the ball is past the 35, why not just have the quarterback punt the ball? If you knew this going into training camp, you could have all the quarterbacks practice their punting so they could get some distance, and distance is all you would need since there would be no one back there to field it.

Inside the 35 is where it would get tricky. It's nice to have a guy who can get a good punt off in that area, but I would much rather groom 3 or 4 special teamers to do the punting chores than use up a critical roster spot for a punter. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to learn, I wonder why no one has ever tried it. Miami will probably try it this year, but I would like to see BB give it a go.

 

[PATSNUTme]

He read this thread and it hurt his feelings.

He's now checking all posters IP's.

 

[Patjew]

He read this thread and it hurt his feelings.

He's now checking all posters IP's.

To Catch a Punter?

 

[PATSNUTme]

To Catch a Punter?

To catch a predator punter.

 

[fgssand]

He is also the holder on field goals for the Ghost and they work very well together.

ALready changed long snappers, I hate to mess up Gost anymore with a new holder as well.

I think Hanson stays..........unless someone can handle the hold equally as well (not as easy as people may think) and really "out punts" him.

 

[captain stone]

An upgrade at P is not only possible, but preferable. I am sick to death of watching Hanson kick from midfield, straight down the middle of the field...and into the EZ for a touchback. What a waste of field position. He never should've been signed in the first place.

As for David Patten - if he were signed tomorrow, no way he doesn't make the team.

 

[jmt57]

I've always felt that it's a waste of a roster spot for someone who just kicks!!

The only time you need a punter that can really boot the ball is when it's 4th down inside your own 35.

If the ball is past the 35, why not just have the quarterback punt the ball? If you knew this going into training camp, you could have all the quarterbacks practice their punting so they could get some distance, and distance is all you would need since there would be no one back there to field it.

Inside the 35 is where it would get tricky. It's nice to have a guy who can get a good punt off in that area, but I would much rather groom 3 or 4 special teamers to do the punting chores than use up a critical roster spot for a punter. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to learn, I wonder why no one has ever tried it. Miami will probably try it this year, but I would like to see BB give it a go.

I'm guessing Ernie Adams has already run the numbers and checked in with this guy:
Rivals High - Arkansas coach punts traditional game plan

Actually I'm surprised that some college team, or even an NFL team late in the season hasn't used this approach. It's a whole different game plan on both sides of the ball when you are trying to get ten yards in four tries rather than three.

 

[Tyler.Durden]

I am of the opinion that wes welker will be our punter on opening day, that dude can do it all.

 

[Schmo]

He is also the holder on field goals for the Ghost and they work very well together.

ALready changed long snappers, I hate to mess up Gost anymore with a new holder as well.

I think Hanson stays..........unless someone can handle the hold equally as well (not as easy as people may think) and really "out punts" him.

I agree, holding for kicks is half of his job. That's why Ken Walter was so good for us... terrible punter, but I remember Vinatieri singing praises about how much he helped him i.e. the "lean" of the ball when he holds it.

Hansen is more or less consistent and I'm pretty sure BB is satisfied with his performance. The only statistic that matters to me is punt return yardage. A great punter will find a way to avoid returns on almost every punt, that's where the big yardage comes into play.