Am I wrong in being fearful of a Peppers signing?

[Ring 6]

I think that is entirely correct. If the Pats somehow get Peppers, then they will have a plan on how to fit his salary in and keep their other key players. They are never shortsighted.

I've been intrigued by the possibility of Peppers for a while, but at this juncture I don't think it's going to happen. I haven't been a big fan of signing Jason Taylor, but right now I think it would be a better long-term if we could get Taylor at a reasonable rate for 2 years and draft an OLB (Connor Barwin, Clay Matthews, etc.) and let them learn for 2 years under Taylor and Thomas. Taylor would probably not be that far removed from Peppers over a 2 year period (he might even be better given his experience at 3-4 OLB), and in 2011 I think we would be better off with a 24 year Barwin or Matthews than a 31-32 year old Peppers, especially given the salary.

If Peppers is an option, I think it will happen on draft day. If BB misses out on the OLB prospects that he likes, I could see him trading #34 (maybe with #89 thrown in) for Peppers. But I think at this point it's an extreme long shot.

One interesting fact that people seem to miss is that the generally accepted practice of the Patriots getting value per dollar in contracts is that the only reason to save on one player is to be able to spend more on another. By nature, that means a Patriot type approach means you are more able to afford the marquee guy than other teams.
In reality though, the success of the team has made many players more expensive, so that savings gets spread thinner and thinner each year. In 2006, almost all of our team was 2 time champions. That costs.

 

[satz]

Pie in the sky theory. Why would we trade away arguably our most important player on defense and replace him with someone that might not be able to fill a need?

I'd love to see Peppers in a Pats uniform, just for the sheer intimidation factor our defense would bring on back of a formidable offense.. but not at the price of sending Wilfork to Carolina.

Not so far fetched actually if carolina is your team. If i am carolina fan for a minute i will not take anything less. pepper is a physical freak and is a dynamic player.
i want something back which will hold the defensive line and anchor it for a few year for such a high priced player if you think some draft pick is going to do this you are wrong , carolina is not in a purge and rebuild mode.anything less if i was a carolina fan i will want FO head with the HC too for being patriot fans.

 

[cstjohn17]

I think Seymour gets traded, Wilfork gets re-worked and maybe they try to sign Taylor.

If Peppers comes here they would have to get rid of Seymour and Faulk, that seems like a lot.

 

[Grizzafted]

So, Andy, from that criteria, who do you think we draft? Sintim, Barwin, or English? Or do we move up to try and get Cushing or Orakpo?

 

[Ring 6]

So, Andy, from that criteria, who do you think we draft? Sintim, Barwin, or English? Or do we move up to try and get Cushing or Orakpo?

I absolutley do not know enough about the draft class to answer.
If we do draft an OLB, it wont be a Gholston kind of guy (IMO, BB would not have drafted him under any circumstances last year) who is solely a pass rusher, but will be a complete player who can play the run as well as rush the passer. Some teams make pass rush skills the only criteria for 43 DE/34 OLB and hope they can be adequate at everything else. BB doesnt do that, and typically, the pass rushers are most hyped.

 

[jmt57]

Regardless of the various opinions about an uncapped year, the reality is that the NFL still has a salary cap this year. The Pats just don't have the room needed to sign Peppers, even if they wanted to. In fact, I don't think they have enough room to sign Taylor either, even if a few contracts are re-worked. In my opinion anybody else signed will be for relatively low contracts, primarily for depth. For example, the Pats may re-sign Mike Wright, and will probably add a WR in the $1-1.5 million range.

 

[WhiZa]

Not so far fetched actually if carolina is your team. If i am carolina fan for a minute i will not take anything less. pepper is a physical freak and is a dynamic player.
i want something back which will hold the defensive line and anchor it for a few year for such a high priced player if you think some draft pick is going to do this you are wrong , carolina is not in a purge and rebuild mode.anything less if i was a carolina fan i will want FO head with the HC too for being patriot fans.

Sums it up nicely. It's not like Peppers is a malcontent who wants out of Carolina. Carolina needs him more then anyone, so to accept anything less then a pro-bowl player or high draft pick just isn't going to happen. Then once you get through the trade, you have to pay the man. Then once you pay the man you have to put him into a position he's never played before, because he thinks it would be fun at this point in his career. No team is going to take that risk, so let him play out his franchise tag year and see what happens if he hits FA next year.

 

[DW Toys]

Sums it up nicely. It's not like Peppers is a malcontent who wants out of Carolina. Carolina needs him more then anyone, so to accept anything less then a pro-bowl player or high draft pick just isn't going to happen. Then once you get through the trade, you have to pay the man. Then once you pay the man you have to put him into a position he's never played before, because he thinks it would be fun at this point in his career. No team is going to take that risk, so let him play out his franchise tag year and see what happens if he hits FA next year.

Everything pretty much makes sense on what you say. I would love to "try" Peppers in that position on the Pats but there is no guarantees. Here is an idea that might work better in the long run.

I have mentioned this before so opt out of reading this if you prefer cousins, but our strengths number wise for value that could be offered in a trade is RB. RB might be the easiest position to replace in the draft because it is the easiest to learn in the NFL as far as skill positions. We know the Eagles need a RB and TE. Buckhalter is gone and LJ Smith is a FA. Booker was a flop. They need a shared backfield with Westbrook which is the best scenario for Maroney. He is a "share the carries" type guy. I believe Maroney is a "replaceable part" and was certainly not a first round value at this point. Same might be said for Thomas. They both need to redefine their careers. Change of scenery might work well for them.

The Eagles have three decent DEs. We wanted Chris Gocong in 06 (same class as Maroney and Thomas). All three of these guys have had injuries but Goncong is now healthy and productive in both pass and run. There also is an item about saving CAP space by moving Maroney $2.5m I believe. Not sure on Thomas...but we would acquire Gocongs. Should save a little anyway.

It might also be worth a mid pick to us from them as well. I could see this trade help both teams value to value.

Posters say..."No..Never happen!" Why not? You have an instant "experienced" Mike Vrabel type piece and BB prefers vets. Maroney has two other backs here that might be over him on the roster. Do we let him sit on the bench? Can't we get a Rashard Jennings or a Bernard Scott in the mid rounds that would be an adequate replacement for Maroney? Would Thomas hurt us to lose?

Thoughts? (other than "The Eagles won't do it because I said so" stuff unless you have valid insider information to share)
DW Toys

 

[DaBruinz]

This is something that bothers me. Too many people keep saying next year is uncapped. There is still a chance that that will change. Assuming we have a crap load to spend next year is not smart. As you said, it "probably" will be.

There is only a chance that it will be a capped year IF the NFLPA stops dragging its arse and gets its new Executive Director put in place. Its been nearly 7 months since Gene Upshaw passed away and they are no closer now to replacing him. Big whoop, they are down to 6 Candidates.. But the 6th candidate, David Cornwell, has been put on and taken off the ballot at least twice.

Its really a wonder that the NFLPA can get things done at all.

 

[Synovia]

Regardless of the various opinions about an uncapped year, the reality is that the NFL still has a salary cap this year. The Pats just don't have the room needed to sign Peppers, even if they wanted to. In fact, I don't think they have enough room to sign Taylor either, even if a few contracts are re-worked. In my opinion anybody else signed will be for relatively low contracts, primarily for depth. For example, the Pats may re-sign Mike Wright, and will probably add a WR in the $1-1.5 million range.

Considering how bad Taylor was last year, there is a chance that he goes cheap.

 

[Synovia]

There also is an item about saving CAP space by moving Maroney $2.5m I believe.

NO NO NO NO NO.


Cutting or trading Maroney costs more than keeping him on the roster. People need to check facts before they make claims like this.

 

[DW Toys]

NO NO NO NO NO.


Cutting or trading Maroney costs more than keeping him on the roster. People need to check facts before they make claims like this.

Tell me then? Costs? Cutting is a no. Trading is a possibility.
DW Toys

 

[JackBauer]

Tell me then? Costs? Cutting is a no. Trading is a possibility.
DW Toys

Can you read? He will not be cut OR traded because it results in a cap hit to the team.

 

[khayos]

I swear, posts by DW Toys make me dumber.

 

[DW Toys]

Can you read? He will not be cut OR traded because it results in a cap hit to the team.

Read what? I asked the nice young man to show me because I would like to gain that knowledge. It looks like you have nothing Jack...except your self appreciating attitude.
I asked a reasonable question that I did not know, from a reasonable man and I wind up with your valuable input? Go figure!

Jack I am sure you are a wonderful guy and when you marry you will be a wonderful husband and father. You will be able to put your kids on your knee and explain to them the errors of there ways. I can tell that just by your loving responses.
DW Toys

 

[Synovia]

Tell me then? Costs? Cutting is a no. Trading is a possibility.
DW Toys

Cap hit if Maroney is on Patriots: 1.7M
Cap hit if Maroney isnt on Pats: 2.5M


It doesn't matter if hes traded or cut. for the cap, they're the same thing.

 

[DW Toys]

I swear, posts by DW Toys make me dumber.

Another one! O.K. You are obviously very smart as well sir....I apologize because I have not the answer to this question and I asked if anyone could explain. I did not do so with malice or indignation....I don't get it. Is this some double secret information that is so obvious my stupidity overwhelms men of your superior intellect?
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Cap hit if Maroney is on Patriots: 1.7M
Cap hit if Maroney isnt on Pats: 2.5M


It doesn't matter if hes traded or cut. for the cap, they're the same thing.

Thank you. That is all I requested. I was not being a smart ass.

Another question. I do not know the answer and I am not a CAP expert nor pretend to know all of the answers unlike wonderful fellows like the pleasant Mr. Jack B. Is there anywhere I could read the information (or link) about the CAP ramifications on why a trade like this would cost money versus keep said player?

Thank you

Or should I just Jack B. call me stupid and call it a day? Here is your big shot Jack. Don't miss! This will make you feel better.

DW Toys

 

[Synovia]

Is there anywhere I could read the information (or link) about the CAP ramifications on why a trade like this would cost money versus keep said player?

Maroney was paid a signing bonus. That signing bonus was prorated (the cap hit was... he got all the cash immediately) over the length of his contract. The cap hit for that signing bonus is 1.1M per year of the contract left. They have to pay that whether or not hes on the team.


His salary is 600K. He has a 100K workout bonus.


1.1M + 600K + 100K = 1.7X M cap hit (I'm rounding here).


If the Pats cut/trade him, next years signing bonus cap hit gets accelerated to this year, so they save 600K in salary, but have to pay an additional 1.1M in cap space becase of the accelerate bonus.

 

[JackBauer]

Thank you. That is all I requested. I was not being a smart ass.

Another question. I do not know the answer and I am not a CAP expert nor pretend to know all of the answers unlike wonderful fellows like the pleasant Mr. Jack B. Is there anywhere I could read the information (or link) about the CAP ramifications on why a trade like this would cost money versus keep said player?

Thank you

Or should I just Jack B. call me stupid and call it a day? Here is your big shot Jack. Don't miss! This will make you feel better.

DW Toys

What's your address? I'll mail you a box of tissues.