Jarvis Green - The $5.4M Man

[mgteich]

I looked over our roster and our salary structure. Some are bargains, some seem expensive and most are just right. But, in the end, the salaries and contracts seem understandable. Obviously, the patriots do a tremendous job in using cap money well.

That is, all teh cap amounts are understandable except that of Jarvis Green.

SALARY $2.5M
2009 BONUS $2.3M
AMORTIZED BONUS .6M
------
TOTAL CAP HIT $5.4M

QUESTION 1
Has the $2.3M bonus been paid? When was it due? Could it have been avoided, like Vrabel's?

QUESTION 2
If Jarvis Green were to be extended, would the bonus be spread, or is it too late?

QUESTION 3
If you were the DL coach and were told that there was an opportunity to re-sign Wright or extend Green to a long-term deal, with the other not playing for the pats this year, who would you choose and why?

QESTION 4
If Wright were coming back, would you still try to extend Green, as insurance in case Seymour goes?

 

[Tunescribe]

I looked over our roster and our salary structure. Some are bargains, some seem expensive and most are just right. But, in the end, the salaries and contracts seem understandable. Obviously, the patriots do a tremendous job in using cap money well.

That is, all teh cap amounts are understandable except that of Jarvis Green.

SALARY $2.5M
2009 BONUS $2.3M
AMORTIZED BONUS .6M
------
TOTAL CAP HIT $5.4M

QUESTION 1
Has the $2.3M bonus been paid? When was it due? Could it have been avoided, like Vrabel's?

QUESTION 2
If Jarvis Green were to be extended, would the bonus be spread, or is it too late?

QUESTION 3
If you were the DL coach and were told that there was an opportunity to re-sign Wright or extend Green to a long-term deal, with the other not playing for the pats this year, who would you choose and why?

QESTION 4
If Wright were coming back, would you still try to extend Green, as insurance in case Seymour goes?

I'm not sure what to think of Wright these days. There have been times when he's seemed pretty stout and others especially last season when he was pushed around and out of position. I was much higher on him a couple years ago. Jarvis seems to be making the most of his career as a backup in the 3-4, and likely would be a starter elsewhere in the 4-3. I think Jarvis is worth the money, and Wright is turning into a JAG.

 

[fair catch fryar]

I suppose his salary seems a lot more justifiable than Vrabel's was and I wonder if Le Kevin Smith might start seeing more playing time if they don't bring back Wright? I think we're going to see something significant regarding the D-line in the next few weeks, I'm hoping it's a contract extension for Big Vince.

 

[Miguel]

Jarvis' $2.3 million roster bonus is actually made up of 2 roster bonuses.

$400,000 which was part of his 2009 cap number in 2008 so I am certain that he is due to get it in 2009.
$1,900,000 which is tied to 2007/2008 playing time. Still not sure if he earn it but I think that he did.

IMO, it is misleading to look at just his 2009 cap number and contend that it is out of whack. To be fair to Jarvis, look at the cap numbers for the rest of his contract. For example, his 2005 cap number was $1,059,620 (a bargain).

 

[Miguel]

Also, a contract is a two-way street. If you think that Jarvis' 2009 cap number is out of whack, you are in effect criticizing the Patriots front office for agreeing to such a deal.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

Jarvis' $2.3 million roster bonus is actually made up of 2 roster bonuses.

$400,000 which was part of his 2009 cap number in 2008 so I am certain that he is due to get it in 2009.
$1,900,000 which is tied to 2007/2008 playing time. Still not sure if he earn it but I think that he did.

IMO, it is misleading to look at just his 2009 cap number and contend that it is out of whack. To be fair to Jarvis, look at the cap numbers for the rest of his contract. For example, his 2005 cap number was $1,059,620 (a bargain).

$1.9 in a bonus for past performance and a $.6M signing bonus are sunk costs.
So, in effect it is really only $2.9M in new money for this season?

I would consider that a bargain.

 

[JSn]

Is a Green a guy that can step in for Seymour with any level of competence, or is strictly there as a 3rd down pass rusher?

 

[stinkypete]

Is a Green a guy that can step in for Seymour with any level of competence, or is strictly there as a 3rd down pass rusher?

Some would argue that Green outplayed Seymour as an injury replacement during the early part of the 2007 season, but he definitely seemed to decline in 2008.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

the money saved on the cap figure is only as good as how it would be spent if they got rid of him. is there anyone better out there right now? I just don't think so. This draft they need to add some depth there and obviously look at the entire defense.

 

[jeffd]

Is a Green a guy that can step in for Seymour with any level of competence, or is strictly there as a 3rd down pass rusher?

I look at green as a starter. BB likes to keep the DL rotating and fresh. If you break down the snaps I'll bet he's pretty close to Warren, Wilfork and Seymour. Also, Green can play DT or DE. I don't think he can play NT.

 

[JSn]

The question is, is there any way Seymour becomes trade bait THIS offseason and is replaced (at least on paper) by Green?

I'm not rooting for it, just wondering if the idea has any merit.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the pats will simply tag seymour for a year

 

[fair catch fryar]

The question is, is there any way Seymour becomes trade bait THIS offseason and is replaced (at least on paper) by Green?

I'm not rooting for it, just wondering if the idea has any merit.

I thought the same thing, but didn't dare say it. Now that you did, I think it's possible, but with Seymour apparently at full health and in the last year of his contract it might be worth to keep him this season and see how he produces. I know it's a pipe dream, but part of me gets really excited about a Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren front with *Woods?/Crable?*, Mayo, Thomas, and Peppers.

**Not sure how it would be set up if we did get Peppers. Would they move Thomas back to the inside or try to bookend the LB with Thomas and Peppers coming from the outside and finding someone suitable to play the inside opposite Mayo?

 

[JSn]

I thought the same thing, but didn't dare say it. Now that you did, I think it's possible, but with Seymour apparently at full health and in the last year of his contract it might be worth to keep him this season and see how he produces. I know it's a pipe dream, but part of me gets really excited about a Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren front with *Woods?/Crable?*, Mayo, Thomas, and Peppers.

**Not sure how it would be set up if we did get Peppers. Would they move Thomas back to the inside or try to bookend the LB with Thomas and Peppers coming from the outside and finding someone suitable to play the inside opposite Mayo?

How about:
Thomas/Mayo/Guyton/Peppers?

I'm fine with that as a starting rotation, honestly.

 

[fair catch fryar]

How about:
Thomas/Mayo/Guyton/Peppers?

I'm fine with that as a starting rotation, honestly.

Yea, I'd feel pretty good about that too.

The big ? is whether that comes with a side of potato chips or fries?

 

[BradyManny]

Some would argue that Green outplayed Seymour as an injury replacement during the early part of the 2007 season, but he definitely seemed to decline in 2008.

They'd be wrong then. If you followed the metrics from Football Outsiders , our run defense [whenever Seymour is out] on Green's side is atrocious. When we have a healthy Seymour in the lineup, our run defense on that side is very stout.

 

[crowell33]

the pats will simply tag seymour for a year

This sounds right to me.................but assuming both Wilfork and Mankins are already signed.

 

[matt1073]

The question is, is there any way Seymour becomes trade bait THIS offseason and is replaced (at least on paper) by Green?

I'm not rooting for it, just wondering if the idea has any merit.

To tell you the truth thats not a bad idea. If most say Green could be a starter on most teams why dont we keep him and dump seymour off for a first or a another starter else where. Green is younger and cheeper to resign and seymour is always injured so we know we can play without him. Plus we would have a ton more cap space.

 

[BPF]

They'd be wrong then. If you followed the metrics from Football Outsiders , our run defense [whenever Seymour is out] on Green's side is atrocious. When we have a healthy Seymour in the lineup, our run defense on that side is very stout.

I was just about to say this. Green is a good situational player, not a starter, and if the Pats can find a cheaper suitable replacement my guess is that Green will be replaced. In the meantime though there is no need to do anything.

 

[satz]

Every thread is a seymour bash who had the same sack total as in 2003 8 and
and put his best career solo tackler and asst numbers....why .seymour had a career year in 08.

also you look at a contract as a whole not in bits and pieces its not a 1 yr deal to ananlysis.