Did Denver inadvertendly screw the Pats on Cassel trade value

[maverick4]

All those other prospective teams we expected to line up with picks for Cassel were affected by the possibility that the Broncos were willing to ship Jay Cutler for picks. By listening to offers for Cutler, Cutler trumped Cassel temporarily as the prized QB on the trade market. The attention that would have been going to New England for Cassel was instead directed to the Denver front office for a near-impossible 3-way trade scenario where Cutler would be traded out and Cassel would be their guy.

Tampa and others wouldn't bid more for Cassel to hurt Denver's chances of landing Cassel. Also, Belichick/NE had to wait for Denver to decide while they had major time pressure (Vrabel's bonus due on 3/1 and without trading Cassel the Pats would currently be over the cap), which is a major bottleneck. Additionally, teams that wanted Cutler wouldn't want to outbid Denver for Cassel.

By inhibiting other teams from making a strong or faster play for Cassel in the past few days, the Broncos cost us at least another 3rd rounder.

 

[aeg]

Re: Did Denver Inadvertendly Screw the Pats' on Cassel Trade Value

Regardless of the impact on the market for Cassel, it is costing McDaniels pretty heavily in PR.

Fire Josh McDaniels webpage

 

[WhiZa]

Don't the Broncos play in the same division as the Chiefs? My hampering the trade they just expedited a chance to see Cassel and Vrabel twice a year.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I believe that Denver was the team approached and not the other way around. So Denver did not initiate the trade idea of the Cutler/Cassel/Picks swap. They listened but they decided no. So that pretty much kills the deal before it gets started.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I believe that Denver was the team approached and not the other way around. So Denver did not initiate the trade idea of the Cutler/Cassel/Picks swap. They listened but they decided no. So that pretty much kills the deal before it gets started.

I agree, I think Tampa was exploiting the McDaniels-Cassel relationship to pry Cutler away for a 1st round pick. However Tampa would not part with a 1st rounder for Cassel.

 

[Pats726]

I believe that Denver was the team approached and not the other way around. So Denver did not initiate the trade idea of the Cutler/Cassel/Picks swap. They listened but they decided no. So that pretty much kills the deal before it gets started.

Acrually I heard that as well...the Broncos were the ones listening to offers NOT initiating...but hamper teh Chiefs?? Why not??

 

[spacecrime]

Not sure how Denver inhibited other teams from making an offer for Cassel. I thought the best way to get value for a player to have several teams interested?

It is hard for me to accept that another team wouldn't make an offer on a player because another team was interested in that same player.

Childress: "We have an awesome defense, the league's best RB, a fine Oline and some nice WRs. All we need is a top QB and we are superbowl bound. Too bad Denver is interested in Matt Cassel. He is the guy we need, but oh, well. Guess we have to go with Tavares Jackson and Sage Rosenfells. Too bad, we coulda been a contender."

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Not sure how Denver inhibited other teams from making an offer for Cassel. I thought the best way to get value for a player to have several teams interested?

It is hard for me to accept that another team wouldn't make an offer on a player because another team was interested in that same player.

Childress: "We have an awesome defense, the league's best RB, a fine Oline and some nice WRs. All we need is a top QB and we are superbowl bound. Too bad Denver is interested in Matt Cassel. He is the guy we need, but oh, well. Guess we have to go with Tavares Jackson and Sage Rosenfells. Too bad, we coulda been a contender."

The sad thing is . . . that may be exactly what went through Childress' mind.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

All those other prospective teams we expected to line up with picks for Cassel were distracted by the real possibility that the Broncos were willing to ship Jay Cutler for picks. The attention that would have been going to New England for Cassel were instead directed to the Denver front office for a near-impossible 3-way trade scenario where Cutler would be traded out and Cassel would be their guy. Meanwhile, Belichick didn't want to pay Vrabel's bonus which is tomorrow (3/2/09) and also wanted to unload Cassel's huge cap space as soon as possible so we could play in free agency.

I'm thinking by inhibiting other teams from making a strong or faster play for Cassel in the past few days, the Broncos cost us at least another 3rd rounder.

Mav's just looking for something else to blame his whipping boy McKid for now that he's not running the offense here. It was Tampa who initiated the 3 way trade talk, and certainly not with Josh as he's a rookie HC on a team with a GM and with Shanny gone a very involved owner. Apparently it was never a very real possibility either but that's been pointed out to Mav on his other anti Josh thread over in the NFL forum...

 

[maverick4]

Not sure how Denver inhibited other teams from making an offer for Cassel. I thought the best way to get value for a player to have several teams interested?

The point is that the teams that would have been interested in making an offer for Cassel did not make offers to the Pats when they thought Denver was open to dealing Cutler. Denver may not have initiated, but simply entertaining offers for Cutler put Cutler above Cassel in terms of teams making bids.

 

[Rob0729]

The point is that the teams that would have been interested in making an offer for Cassel did not make offers to the Pats when they thought Denver was open to dealing Cutler. Denver may not have initiated, but simply entertaining offers for Cutler put Cutler above Cassel in terms of teams making bids.

What's the difference? Any team trading for Cutler would have to compensate the Broncos enough so that the Broncos could acquire Cassel. Cassel was a package deal with Cutler. In fact, you can argue that the Broncos' interest in Cassel and willingness trade Cutler away increased the market for Cassel.

It seems pretty obvious that the Bucs didn't want Cassel, but they did want Cutler. By getting that three way trade idea going they became a non-participant in the Cassel race to a participant.

I don't know what you are getting at? Are you still looking for ways to trash McDaniels without coming out and saying it since you have started two negative McDaniels/Broncos threads already?

 

[Frezo]

...and also wanted to unload Cassel's huge cap space as soon as possible so we could play in free agency.

I'm wondering if freeing up the cap space so quickly was for the purpose of extending Wilfork before the Haynesworth signing. Wilfork is holding a royal flush now and surely free angent acquisitions could have been put off a day just to make certain Pioli had the best offer if the cap space was indeed for FAs.

 

[maverick4]

What's the difference? Any team trading for Cutler would have to compensate the Broncos enough so that the Broncos could acquire Cassel. Cassel was a package deal with Cutler. In fact, you can argue that the Broncos' interest in Cassel and willingness trade Cutler away increased the market for Cassel.

It seems pretty obvious that the Bucs didn't want Cassel, but they did want Cutler. By getting that three way trade idea going they became a non-participant in the Cassel race to a participant.

You and anybody else outside the league has no idea whether Tampa or Detroit or any other team had zero interest in Cassel. All we know is they knew Denver was interested in dealing Cutler, which then diverted any possible bids for Cassel. For a temporary moment Cassel was the #2 QB on the trade market.

If the Pats didn't have time pressure on Vrabel's contract, it's doubtful Cassel goes to KC for just a second when it's clear there are multiple teams willing to bid.

 

[Rob0729]

You and anybody else outside the league has no idea whether Tampa or Detroit or any other team had zero interest in Cassel. All we know is they knew Denver was interested in dealing Cutler, which then diverted any possible bids for Cassel. For a temporary moment Cassel was the #2 QB on the trade market.

If the Pats didn't have time pressure on Vrabel's contract, it's doubtful Cassel goes to KC for just a second when it's clear there are multiple teams willing to bid.

All reports say that Tampa approached the Broncos, not the other way around. Again, the only way Tampa or Detriot were going to get Cutler was if they offered the Broncos enough to package up and ship to the Pats for Cassel. So whether the Bucs and Lions were bidding on Cutler or not, they were ultimately bidding on Cassel. What's the difference?

Now that Cassel is traded, Cutler is off the table. The Bucs and Lions knew this. They knew they were competiting against the Chiefs for Cassel eventhough they wanted Cutler. So their offers were the same or greater than what they would have bid on Cassel with Cutler out of the picture since by your own words Cassel was second to Cutler. That means they would have given up more for Cutler and in turn given up more to allow the Broncos to trade for Cassel than they would have bidded on Cassel straight up because they felt Cutler was more valuable.

 

[ausbacker]

The sad thing is . . . that may be exactly what went through Childress' mind.

I was surprised he hasn't tried to poach McNabb and give Andy Reid title of "Head Mentor - Idiot Decision Making Division".

 

[maverick4]

All reports say that Tampa approached the Broncos, not the other way around. Again, the only way Tampa or Detriot were going to get Cutler was if they offered the Broncos enough to package up and ship to the Pats for Cassel. So whether the Bucs and Lions were bidding on Cutler or not, they were ultimately bidding on Cassel. What's the difference?

If Denver flat out rejected and did not entertain the idea, do you think Tampa and Detroit would just sit on their hands and not make any bids for Cassel?
The fact Denver was willing to listen altered the standing of Cassel as the top QB on the trade market... for a few days, which is all it took to change events since the Pats had time pressure

 

[maverick4]

Let's say 5 people have bikes but want and need a car.
There is 1 clear top car (car A) on the market, and it appears there will be a nice bidding war for that 1 car (car A).
Suddenly, another guy who has a car is interested in selling his car (car B) and buying car A, and is listening to offers.
Also, all those bike owners perceive car B to be better than car A, so they divert their attentions to complex deals in order to get car B. They otherwise would likely have made stronger bids for car A.
Meanwhile, the owner of car A had major time pressure so just sells to the highest bidder after a short time period.
The fact that the owner of car B came out of nowhere to briefly entertain offers, dramatically affects what gets bid for car A, and ultimately who receives car A and what the seller receives.

 

[Rob0729]

Let's say 5 people have bikes but want and need a car.
There is 1 clear top car (car A) on the market, and it appears there will be a nice bidding war for that 1 car (car A).
Suddenly, another guy who has a car is interested in selling his car (car B) and buying car A, and is listening to offers.
Also, all those bike owners perceive car B to be better than car A, so they divert their attentions to complex deals in order to get car B. They otherwise would likely have made stronger bids for car A.
Meanwhile, the owner of car A had major time pressure so just sells to the highest bidder after a short time period.
The fact that the owner of car B came out of nowhere to briefly entertain offers, dramatically affects what gets bid for car A, and ultimately who receives car A and what the seller receives.

In your scenario, the only way to buy car B is to give the own of car B enough money to beat out the other bidders for car A. So if anything it drives up the bids on car A because car B is perceived as more valuable and the only way to get car B is for the owner of car B to get car A. Why does this not make sense to you. The bidders of car B are now motivated in their bids to make sure that their "guy" in the bidding for car A wins the bidding or they don't get car B.

 

[Rob0729]

If Denver flat out rejected and did not entertain the idea, do you think Tampa and Detroit would just sit on their hands and not make any bids for Cassel?
The fact Denver was willing to listen altered the standing of Cassel as the top QB on the trade market... for a few days, which is all it took to change events since the Pats had time pressure

Who cares? Tampa had a vested interest in making sure that Denver won the bidding for Cassel's rights. So the Broncos did the Pats a favor by making the Bucs a more motivated bidder because they would get what they perceived as a better QB by providing the draft pick to pry Cassel from the Patriots. In theory, it increases their willingness to give up a first rounder to win the bidding for Cassel.

Why not just come out and say rather than beating around the bush. You blame McDaniels for the Pats not getting more value for Cassel.

BTW, would there been a difference if Cassel was traded today rather than yesterday? Did the Pats make any moves that couldn't have waited until tomorrow. Let's not go overboard on how the Broncos "screwed" the Pats on the Cassel trade.

 

[maverick4]

No way does it drive up the bids for car A. The owner of car B does not change his bid for car A, and also the owner of car A now has to wait to see if car B wants to do the deal or not.

The # of bids for car A goes down because those offers from the bikers were diverted to outbidding the others to the owner of car B.

Meanwhile, car A's owner has major time pressure so just sells to the only real bid he got.

If you don't think we had time pressure, Vrabel's bonus was due today, and also without unloading Cassel's huge cap we would currently be OVER the cap based on our recent signings.