Cassel's contract (and effect on the deal)

[mgteich]

The understanding below would have been a reasonable contract to sign. Conditional picks in contracts are common. They chose NOT to sign such a contract.

I don't see why not. It could have gone something like this.

Pioli: "Bill, I understand that you want the cap space right now, but it will take some time to finalize a contract with Matt. I will trade the 2nd round pick for the tendered contract and Vrabel. If/when a contract is signed, we'll change the compensation to...."

Belichick: "Thanks my friend. That works for me."

 

[Rob0729]

I continue to be amazed at those who suggest that Matt Cassel is worth anywhere near $14.6M for his services in the 2009 season, especially for a poor team. My congratulations to Matt, his agent, and the media, on their joint campaign to make Matt rich.

BTW, I think we did very well to get the #34 pick in this draft for Matt. If we had traded with Tenn, most would have agreed since we would have gotten a first. I suspect most would have agreed if we received a 2010 1st and 3nd which, depending on team, is about the same in value to what we got.

Before the hype, most of us would have been fine with a 2010 first or the #34 in this draft.

The alternative is about $25 million in guarantees. Four years ago, the Saints basically gave Drew Brees a one year deal worth $10 million. Considering he was only good for about a year and a half (no where as good as he is now) and coming off a major injury, he is as big as a risk as Cassel is today. Based on the increases in salary, $14.6 million is not that much of an increase.

Cassel is worth based on this year's contracts vs. previous QB contracts probably around $10 million a year maybe $11-12 million. So an extra $4.6 million is not that much more. Pioli will be hoping he doesn't have a long term deal in place if Cassel goes out there this year and throws for 2,500 yards, 15 TDs, and 18 INTs. Because a long term contract would be far worse for him.

It's not whether he is worth $14.6 million (because he if he gets a long term deal, his average yearly salary won't be that much less). It's whether Cassel's salary demands are out of whack or not and Pioli has any doubts about him. If Cassel is looking for something like $30 million in guarantees (which isn't all that crazy considering what other players are getting), the smarter route might be to just let him play under the franchise tender and see how it goes.

The Chiefs are well under the cap and would be paying that $14.6 million to someone(s) if not Cassel.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't see why not. It could have gone something like this.

Pioli: "Bill, I understand that you want the cap space right now, but it will take some time to finalize a contract with Matt. I will trade the 2nd round pick for the tendered contract and Vrabel. If/when a contract is signed, we'll change the compensation to...."

Belichick: "Thanks my friend. That works for me."

Well, there would need to be a conditional part to the trade in writing. I doubt there would be anything under the table.

 

[WhiZa]

One thing that is not even being talked about... if Cassel does only do the 1 year contract, he is a FA next year. In a potential uncapped season, the Jets have the capital to give Cassel a blank check to get him on the team. Makes me wonder if the reason the Jets are not going after a QB is because they expect to get one next year.

 

[mgteich]

Ok, so now you're saying the going rate for a one-year deal for a QB one isn't sure of is $14.6M?? Personally, I don't think the cost would be anywhere near that high if Pioli were to sign another "veteran" quarterback with the hope that he would produce and sign a long-term contract after the season was over, or even during the season.

The alternative is about $25 million in guarantees. Four years ago, the Saints basically gave Drew Brees a one year deal worth $10 million. Considering he was only good for about a year and a half (no where as good as he is now) and coming off a major injury, he is as big as a risk as Cassel is today. Based on the increases in salary, $14.6 million is not that much of an increase.

Cassel is worth based on this year's contracts vs. previous QB contracts probably around $10 million a year maybe $11-12 million. So an extra $4.6 million is not that much more. Pioli will be hoping he doesn't have a long term deal in place if Cassel goes out there this year and throws for 2,500 yards, 15 TDs, and 18 INTs. Because a long term contract would be far worse for him.

It's not whether he is worth $14.6 million (because he if he gets a long term deal, his average yearly salary won't be that much less). It's whether Cassel's salary demands are out of whack or not and Pioli has any doubts about him. If Cassel is looking for something like $30 million in guarantees (which isn't all that crazy considering what other players are getting), the smarter route might be to just let him play under the franchise tender and see how it goes.

The Chiefs are well under the cap and would be paying that $14.6 million to someone(s) if not Cassel.

 

[Trocadile]

One thing that is not even being talked about... if Cassel does only do the 1 year contract, he is a FA next year. In a potential uncapped season, the Jets have the capital to give Cassel a blank check to get him on the team. Makes me wonder if the reason the Jets are not going after a QB is because they expect to get one next year.

But, under the current CBA, he would not be an unrestricted FA. In 2010, unrestricted free agency would be for 6+ year vets and he would have finished his 5th year.

 

[Rob0729]

Ok, so now you're saying the going rate for a one-year deal for a QB one isn't sure of is $14.6M?? Personally, I don't think the cost would be anywhere near that high if Pioli were to sign another "veteran" quarterback with the hope that he would produce and sign a long-term contract after the season was over, or even during the season.

If the going rate was $10 million back in 2006, $14.6 million isn't that far off.

I still think the franchise tender might be the safer route for the Chiefs. Obviously Pioli doesn't mind risking that he is going to the season with only a franchise tender because if they were close to having a deal in place at the time of the trade, it would be done now. Pioli has to know that there is a chance that Cassel will not be signed.

If Pioli made this trade with the understanding that he cannot go into the season with Cassel making $14.6 million, he is far dumber than I thought. It would give Cassel all the bargaining power.

 

[makewayhomer]

The alternative is about $25 million in guarantees.

well the alternative is doing no deal at all

Four years ago, the Saints basically gave Drew Brees a one year deal worth $10 million. Considering he was only good for about a year and a half (no where as good as he is now) and coming off a major injury, he is as big as a risk as Cassel is today. Based on the increases in salary, $14.6 million is not that much of an increase.

huge difference - Brees was never traded for pick 34. HUGE difference

Cassel is worth based on this year's contracts vs. previous QB contracts probably around $10 million a year maybe $11-12 million. So an extra $4.6 million is not that much more.

yeah whats another 50% / $4m between friends.

Pioli will be hoping he doesn't have a long term deal in place if Cassel goes out there this year and throws for 2,500 yards, 15 TDs, and 18 INTs. Because a long term contract would be far worse for him.

theres a flip side to that coin

It's not whether he is worth $14.6 million (because he if he gets a long term deal, his average yearly salary won't be that much less).

yes it will be. also it's not AAV that matters, its the guaranteed monet

It's whether Cassel's salary demands are out of whack or not and Pioli has any doubts about him. If Cassel is looking for something like $30 million in guarantees (which isn't all that crazy considering what other players are getting), the smarter route might be to just let him play under the franchise tender and see how it goes.

if you're not gonna sign him to a long term deal then why trade for him in the first place??
if he has a great year then you're ****ed, he'll just be a UFA

 

[Rob0729]

One thing that is not even being talked about... if Cassel does only do the 1 year contract, he is a FA next year. In a potential uncapped season, the Jets have the capital to give Cassel a blank check to get him on the team. Makes me wonder if the reason the Jets are not going after a QB is because they expect to get one next year.

Well, he would be a RFA and eventhough the tender would be about $18 million, the Jets would have to give up a first and third to get him. I think if Cassel does play this year without a long term deal and plays as good or better than he played down the stretch in 2008, Cassel will have a new contract in place before the end of the season. I am sure that if Cassel comes out on fire in September and October, Pioli would have a deal in place by December.

 

[makewayhomer]

Well, he would be a RFA and eventhough the tender would be about $18 million, the Jets would have to give up a first and third to get him. I think if Cassel does play this year without a long term deal and plays as good or better than he played down the stretch in 2008, Cassel will have a new contract in place before the end of the season. I am sure that if Cassel comes out on fire in September and October, Pioli would have a deal in place by December.

but why would Cassel sign? better off to hit the open market

 

[Frezo]

Well, there would need to be a conditional part to the trade in writing. I doubt there would be anything under the table.

They could just rip up the original trade agreement and make a new one. They'd do this to keep compensation details away from the KC media to avoid distractions during the negotiation process.

There's probably nothing to it. I was just throwing a thought out here.

 

[Rob0729]

well the alternative is doing no deal at all

And if Cassel is a one year wonder, Pioli is jumping up and down for joy that he didn't get a deal done.

huge difference - Brees was never traded for pick 34. HUGE difference

yeah whats another 50% / $4m between friends.

So if Cassel is a one year wonder, Pioli will have given him about $25 million in guarantees and have a hard time cutting him probably paying him out an extra $15 million for being a bust. Hey, but what is $15 million for nothing between friends.

yes it will be. also it's not AAV that matters, its the guaranteed monet

At least we can agree there. Based on this year's contracts, Cassel might get over $30 million in guarantees.

if you're not gonna sign him to a long term deal then why trade for him in the first place??
if he has a great year then you're ****ed, he'll just be a UFA

Because you own the guy for the next four years if you want. He will be a RFA next year and has two more years after that to franchise him. It isn't like Cassel will just walk away after this year and if he does, the Chiefs will get a first and third round pick from another team. Sounds like a good consolation prize to me.

 

[Rob0729]

but why would Cassel sign? better off to hit the open market

He won't hit the open market. He will be a RFA next year. That means a team will have to give up a first and third to get him assuming that the Chiefs don't match the deal. If there is a new CBA, the Chiefs still can franchise Cassel.

Besides, if he proves not to be a one year wonder, Pioli may be willing to give Cassel far more money than he is willing to give him now. He will know for sure that he has a legitimate franchise QB.

Pioli will probably get a deal done with Cassel, but I don't think it is a slam dunk. I was ridiculed when I suggested a team would trade for Cassel without a long term deal in place and I was right. So I may be right here.

 

[PromisedLand]

As many of us have said since the tag was first suggested, placing a tag on Cassel put him in the driver's seat. He called the shots once he signed. How many teams does anyone think offered the patriots a first WITH NO SIGNED DEAL WITH CASSEL? I believe the answer is exactly one. Maybe there is a handshake agreement that Cassel will work in good faith to negoatiate a long-term deal with KC. So what! It is Cassel who has the $14.6M guaranteed as a start of a deal that he must accept. If Cassel made that representation, perhaps Pioli would believe that they could get it done. Would other teams take the same chance? In the end, it is both Pioli's and Cassel's interest to get a deal done. But if there is no deal, Cassel is in fine shape.

How exactly did tagging him put him in the driver's seat? Everyone seems to forget that if we didn't tag him he was going to be an UNRESTRICTED free agent, in which case we would have gotten NADA, ZIPPO, ZILCH for him. By tagging him we got a pretty high pick, one which has a pretty good chance of turning into a good player for several years to come.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Personally, I was always perplexed why Cassel signed the franchise tender and thought it wasn't in his best interest. I always thought all along that there could be a team that was willing to trade for Cassel without doing a new deal. It actually may be the be smarter way to deal with Cassel if you have any doubts about him.

Now Pioli can easily fit him under the cap with the franchise tender. If he pans out, Pioli gives him a big long term deal or franchises him again. If he craps the bed, all Pioli is out is a second round pick and $14.6 million rather than $20-30 million in guarantees (or based on the contracts this year, maybe $30-40 million).

It's still very possible there's an effort underway to come to a long-term agreement with Cassel... but for those who completely ruled out that:

1.) Cassel would never sign the tender here and
2.) Cassel would never risk playing on a 1 year contract rather than a long-term deal (be it on another team or here)

... might want to reconsider that line of thinking and admit that, yes, there is the slight possibility of that happening.

Of course personally I didn't see Cassel deciding to PLAY under a 1 year franchise deal.... I too viewed that as too risky. Sitting on the bench behind Brady , collecting $15 million this year and cashing in next year on a long term deal was another matter entirely and something I viewed as making fiscal sense.

It looks like there's a chance Cassel will do exactly that - though he's actually willing to risk injury or what appears to be sub-par play on a potentially mediocre team. I'm still trying to accept that an am having a hard time - though I'm sure he's purchased a nice insurance policy for himself.

 

[makewayhomer]

How exactly did tagging him put him in the driver's seat? Everyone seems to forget that if we didn't tag him he was going to be an UNRESTRICTED free agent, in which case we would have gotten NADA, ZIPPO, ZILCH for him. By tagging him we got a pretty high pick, one which has a pretty good chance of turning into a good player for several years to come.

it put him in the drivers seat in the "whats best for Cassel" business, which should be his foremost concern

 

[PromisedLand]

it put him in the drivers seat in the "whats best for Cassel" business, which should be his foremost concern

I'm not concerned about his concerns, I'm concerned about the Patriots' concerns.

 

[eom]

I didn't read the whole thread, so it may have already been brought up, but if cassell is willing to roll dice by waiting a year on a new deal, and IF he has a pretty decent year, isn't there every possibility he could clean up when the cba expires?
on the flip side, pioli can gamble on his ability by trying to sign him to a big secure deal which would probably save the team a lot of money in the future if contracts blow up in a year.

while there's a lot of uncertainty in the coming year, or so, I'd imagine it favors the players, if anything, and teams would probably be interested in securing their guys long term right now.
which is another reason why the pats would be crippling themselves by remaining at the cap any longer than they'd have to be.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Yeah, the only reason the Pats tagged Cassel was to get something for him. Otherwise,they get zilch.

As for why Cassel signed the tender, are people serious? The tender was the best thing that ever happened to him. It guaranteed (1) that he would be traded to a team that would use him as a starter, and (2) that he would be paid $15 million. My guess is that he signed it before the ink was dry.

He wasn't worth $14.6 to the Patriots. Nothing close to it. But that doesn't mean he's not worth $14.6 to the Chiefs. The Chiefs don't have another $15 million locked up at the position. I tend to agree that, if they can afford to stay under the cap, not locking him up long term until he has another year under his belt isn't a bad option.

I never really considered this, but maybe this more than anything explains the trade to the Chiefs. If they end up not signing him but merely giving him a one-year $15 million try out, I doubt many other teams were in position to do that.

 

[Fencer]

How exactly did tagging him put him in the driver's seat? Everyone seems to forget that if we didn't tag him he was going to be an UNRESTRICTED free agent, in which case we would have gotten NADA, ZIPPO, ZILCH for him. By tagging him we got a pretty high pick, one which has a pretty good chance of turning into a good player for several years to come.

Tagging put him the driver's seat.

Not tagging him would have let him outside the parking lot altogether.