The trade

[RayClay]

I think there was a three way that didn't work, then maybe teams with interest that couldn't work out a deal with Cassel and compensation with us. There's a big difference between interest and cash on the barrel.

Our bargaining position was weak because everyone knew we couldn't afford to keep his salary for a few weeks, much less all next season.

I agree Vrabel was a throw in. We made it look like a trade to save face. They want to blow up the linebacker position (get younger and/or more athletic) and he saves us more than Bruschi would.

 

[JFK]

We got a pick just short of a #1. We got a really good pick. Not an astounding value but a good value. There's nothing to make sense of. Who is it who says "it is what it is" ?

Vrable was included in that deal.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know what happened and I'm not banging the drums about what a great deal it was...it's the deal...it's YOU that keeps up with the Steve From Fall River "I Know Better" routine.And just because you READ what some scribe in Denver published doesn't mean SQUAT. How many complete bullcrap articles have we seen printed across this country the past two years? What I'm saying is I, as a fan of the New England Patriots, am FINE with the decision of Bill Belichick as this team goes forward...and yes,any decision by BB at this point IS the best we, as fans can expect. The rest is inflated overactive egotism running amok.

Ok, you either HAVEN'T read or you can't grasp the meaning. Either way, I'm not going to continue this with you. It's pointless.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm sorry, but we know that a better deal was out there. Or, rather, we know that another deal was out there being discussed, and the reported parameters are better than the Chiefs deal. We know that there was a deal involving the Broncos being discussed, because Cutler found out and is throwing a hissy fit about it. McDaniels hasn't even denied that there was talk about it. His 'defense' was to claim that he didn't initiate it.

No we don't. We know that TB initiated a potential 3 way deal. We don't know that Denver agreed to it. Without all 3 parties agreeing there was no better deal, there was no other deal.

 

[BelichickFan]

Vrable was included in that deal.

Did I say it was just for Cassel ?

 

[jmt57]

I trust common sense and that tells me that if there was a better deal out there we would have taken it. With a deep but not top heavy draft it's very possible Belichick preferred this pick to something higher. I don't know what was offered but it's crazy, borderline dumb, to think that Belichick was offered something he considered noticeably better and declined just to make a deal with his pal Scott.

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm not buying the concept that BB gave Pioli a discount. I'm thinking the Pats may have told other teams 'give me your best offer now', those other teams thought the Pats were bluffing, and the Pats took the best offer available at the time so they could play in free agency and/or re-sign some some players. BB probably felt there was more to be gained with the extra cap space now than there would be with a better trade value/better draft picks later by holding out for the best offer.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think there was a three way that didn't work, then maybe teams with interest that couldn't work out a deal with Cassel and compensation with us. There's a big difference between interest and cash on the barrel.

Our bargaining position was weak because everyone knew we couldn't afford to keep his salary for a few weeks, much less all next season.

I agree Vrabel was a throw in. We made it look like a trade to save face. They want to blow up the linebacker position (get younger and/or more athletic) and he saves us more than Bruschi would.

Vrabel had his physical Friday. In other words, this was essentially a done deal before free agency had barely begun, if not before. I had, in fact, speculated that there was a deal in place in a thread prior to the start of all this. There was no need to hurry this as much as they did, but they did it right away anyway. Even with Vrabel's bonus coming due, they had more than 12 hours to get this done.

 

[BelichickFan]

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm not buying the concept that BB gave Pioli a discount. I'm thinking the Pats may have told other teams 'give me your best offer now', those other teams thought the Pats were bluffing, and the Pats took the best offer available at the time so they could play in free agency and/or re-sign some some players. BB probably felt there was more to be gained with the extra cap space now than there would be with a better trade value/better draft picks later by holding out for the best offer.

Markets can close quickly. In addition to wanting cap space now, there may have been concern that if a trade didn't happen quickly that other teams may move on and we all knew they didn't want $30M in QB. Would I have preferred the #3 pick overall ? Or the #20 pick overall ? Sure. But there's no evidence they were offered.

 

[Deus Irae]

No we don't. We know that TB initiated a potential 3 way deal. We don't know that Denver agreed to it. Without all 3 parties agreeing there was no better deal, there was no other deal.

Read your own post. That means there was interest, even if it had not yet been brought to fruition. That kills the "it is what it is" argument.

 

[JFK]

Did I say it was just for Cassel ?

The bottom line is that we got raped. Sanchez and Stafford are worth more than a proven NFL starter in Cassel??

 

[JFK]

Markets can close quickly. In addition to wanting cap space now, there may have been concern that if a trade didn't happen quickly that other teams may move on and we all knew they didn't want $30M in QB. Would I have preferred the #3 pick overall ? Or the #20 pick overall ? Sure. But there's no evidence they were offered.

Pardon my ignorance but what do we need cap space for? How would you feel if we don't use that cap space for what you thought we'll use it for?

 

[BelichickFan]

Read your own post. That means there was interest, even if it had not yet been brought to fruition. That kills the "it is what it is" argument.

If the report was true TB was willing to trade their #1 for Cutler. There is no evidence they were willing to trade their #1 for Cassel. Interest means nothing if the parties weren't willing and if Denver wasn't willing to be the go between, there was no option there.

 

[BelichickFan]

Pardon my ignorance but what do we need cap space for? How would you feel if we don't use that cap space for what you thought we'll use it for?

I am fully confident we will use the cap space on a combination of FA from other teams and extended one or more of our big name FA class of 2010. Of course I can't prove it will happen right now, we'll have to give that a little time.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

inflated overactive egotism running amok.

I would like to go on record as saying, that i've never seen what you describe on this board...........


I do wonder why so many people assume there was a better deal. There's been so many false reports this week, that i've lost track. I personally believe this is a decent deal. I didnt want the #3 pick anyway. It might seem that we were robbed, but really, what was Vrabs gonna do this year? I love the guy, but he looked REEEEEALLY slow last year. Being a great guy, and funny guy in the locker room isnt enough. So, i'm on record as being satisfied with the deal......not that anyone cares what i think

 

[Deus Irae]

If the report was true TB was willing to trade their #1 for Cutler. There is no evidence they were willing to trade their #1 for Cassel. Interest means nothing if the parties weren't willing and if Denver wasn't willing to be the go between, there was no option there.

Again.... there was INTEREST. That's all that's needed to kill the "It is..." argument. The deal didn't need to go down today. It was a favor for a friend. The Patriots took less than they could have gotten, and they clearly acted faster than was necessary. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with people trying to pretend this was anything else.

 

[makoute]

If the report was true TB was willing to trade their #1 for Cutler. There is no evidence they were willing to trade their #1 for Cassel. Interest means nothing if the parties weren't willing and if Denver wasn't willing to be the go between, there was no option there.

Why some folks are having such a hard time understanding this, I don't know.

 

[JFK]

If the report was true TB was willing to trade their #1 for Cutler. There is no evidence they were willing to trade their #1 for Cassel. Interest means nothing if the parties weren't willing and if Denver wasn't willing to be the go between, there was no option there.

If TB was offering Denver a 1st round pick that means Denver would have offered NE less than what they got from TB which would probably be better than what we got from KC. I think it was TB that pulled out of the deal.

 

[Metaphors]

Why does there have to be more to this trade than meets the eye? The market wasn't there for Cassel to get a 1st round pick in return. That likely means that there were far fewer teams in play than we thought. The Chiefs (possibly thinking they were bidding against themselves) were hesitant to trade the #34 pick straight up for Cassel. Vrabel (a possible cap casualty down the line) was the sweetener needed to close the deal. That is the deal as it appears on the surface...so why is it so hard to believe?

While nobody knows the discussions between Belichick and Pioli, it is just silly to believe that Belichick had a much better offer for Cassel (with or without Vrabel) and decided to take less to deal with KC. And I doubt Pioli is going to be doing any favors for Belichick in the future.

Why not wait, play the field and see if something materializes? Very little is going to change between now and the draft that would raise the trade profile of Cassel...but a whole lot could change to lower it. Stafford and Sanchez blow everyone away at their pro days. A 2nd tier QB (like Henne last year) starts to look like a solid and cheaper alternative. A couple of big FA signings prevent interested teams from meeting Cassel's contract terms. You get the idea.

I've said all along that not trading Cassel would be a disaster for the Pats. Cassel had to go even if it meant compromising on the draft pick or even using Vrabel to make it happen.

Just 6 months ago, Cassel struggled to make the Pats roster. 4 months ago, he was a .500 QB running a restricted playbook and hesitant to throw between or over defenders. His huge 2nd half mitigates this a bit, but doesn't erase it entirely. That is a serious risk for a new coach or GM to take on. Keeping pick #3 and getting Vrabel to mentor his defense allows Pioli to manage that risk. Sometimes the simplest explanations make the most sense.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'm getting over it. It's a done deal and there is nothing I can do about it. All the apologists can spin it any way they want. Cap space, best deal available blah blah blah. But you all know damn well that he was worth 2 2nd rounders and if you can't admit it then you are complete homers. I never thought he was worth 2 1st rounders like the franchise tag dictates but 2 second rounders was a done deal.

If I was a Chiefs fan I would be sleeping pretty good tonight.

 

[BelichickFan]

Again.... there was INTEREST. That's all that's needed to kill the "It is..." argument. The deal didn't need to go down today. It was a favor for a friend. The Patriots took less than they could have gotten, and they clearly acted faster than was necessary. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with people trying to pretend this was anything else.

There is NO EVIDENCE TB had interest in Cassel. They had interest in Cutler.