Why the love affair with Julius Peppers?

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

Really, what are our major needs? I'll tell you what our biggest need is: getting a pass rush. That's not to say Peppers is likely to come here, but it's not like we have gaping holes elsewhere that need to be filled.

I think we need backfield help to the degree it is a glaring need. The pass rush helps greatly, but not the whole of the equation.

Pass rush won't do much if you need to drop your LB's back to help support coverage.

I also think we need OL help. Maybe not glaring today, but will be next year and next years glaring needs are today's too.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

Thanks and if you look at it from a historical standpoint w/ BB you can see that he has targeted guys like AD / Colvin / and now Peppers to fill that role Lawerence Taylor played for the Giants allowing them to use multiple fronts etc..

Right on.
Look at what the NYG did to us in the SB with an excellent pass rush.

Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork
Ty Warren
all #1 draft picks. Bill knows the formula. We also have Jarvis and I think Mike Wright is still with us-not sure.

I want our defense to shut teams down!

 

[JackBauer]

I think we need backfield help to the degree it is a glaring need. The pass rush helps greatly, but not the whole of the equation.

Pass rush won't do much if you need to drop your LB's back to help support coverage.

I also think we need OL help. Maybe not glaring today, but will be next year and next years glaring needs are today's too.

Actually, a good pass rush will make even a mediocre secondary look a lot better. The Giants didn't have a great backfield, but they beat us in the Super Bowl in large part by beating the living crap out of our OL.

So what are the glaring needs, in your estimation, in the secondary?

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

Right on.
Look at what the NYG did to us in the SB with an excellent pass rush.

My point exactly...we need OL help.

 

[supafly]

Right on.
Look at what the NYG did to us in the SB with an excellent pass rush.

Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork
Ty Warren
all #1 draft picks. Bill knows the formula. We also have Jarvis and I think Mike Wright is still with us-not sure.

I want our defense to shut teams down!

I'd like to re-sign Wright too, while we're at it, heck of a game vs. AZ. He gives us needed depth, and can line up at the nose too

 

[DaBruinz]

Unless our secondary becomes good anytime soon,we need a SERIOUS talent as a pass rusher to alleviate some of the pressure on the backfield - If Peppers can give us that then he is worth every dime

They are intertwined. In fact, a good pass rush improves a secondary significantly. That's just fact. All one has to do is look at Denver, who had 2 excellent CBs, but no pass rush, to see how they fared.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

Actually, a good pass rush will make even a mediocre secondary look a lot better. The Giants didn't have a great backfield, but they beat us in the Super Bowl in large part by beating the living crap out of our OL.

So what are the glaring needs, in your estimation, in the secondary?

The Giants didn't have a great backfield? Well, maybe not great but certainly better than average:

Sam Madison- 2nd round pick and 4 time pro-bowler
Aaron Ross- 1st round pick, rookie season in 2007
Gibril Wilson- Fast sideline to sideline FS...more then proficient.
Corey Webster was a backup kid...but he is a damned good CB. Would be a starter on our squad.


I would never deny that pass rush isn't necessary....I am saying that Peppers fills a spot we need less than we need backfield help. In both CB and the safety positions.

Remember, Rodney played a huge role in our pass rushing ability....and he ain't no LB.

 

[JackBauer]

The Giants didn't have a great backfield? Well, maybe not great but certainly better than average:

Sam Madison- 2nd round pick and 4 time pro-bowler
Aaron Ross- 1st round pick, rookie season in 2007
Gibril Wilson- Fast sideline to sideline FS...more then proficient.Corey Webster was a backup kid...but he is a damned good CB. Would be a starter on our squad.


I would never deny that pass rush isn't necessary....I am saying that Peppers fillsa spot we need less than we need backfield help. In both CB and the safety positions.

Remember, Rodney played a huge role in our pass rushing ability....and he ain't no LB.

First of all, Madison was like 66 years old. Corey Webster actually played most of the game in the second CB spot, IIRC.

And let's not forget the awesome James Butler at SS.

Like I said, not a great secondary.

 

[ScottieC]

You do realize that peppers was a star BB player for the Tarheels right?

Exactly - The dude is a FREAK athlete - He's an amazing player - If you have to ask or wonder how Bill would use Peppers, I don't think you have watched him play very much.

 

[Synovia]

The Giants didn't have a great backfield? Well, maybe not great but certainly better than average:

Sam Madison- 2nd round pick and 4 time pro-bowler
Aaron Ross- 1st round pick, rookie season in 2007
Gibril Wilson- Fast sideline to sideline FS...more then proficient.
Corey Webster was a backup kid...but he is a damned good CB. Would be a starter on our squad.


I would never deny that pass rush isn't necessary....I am saying that Peppers fills a spot we need less than we need backfield help. In both CB and the safety positions.

Remember, Rodney played a huge role in our pass rushing ability....and he ain't no LB.

No, Webster would not be a starter on our squad. Good pass rush makes him look a lot better than he is. Wilson sucks in coverage too.

 

[JackBauer]

The Giants didn't have a great backfield? Well, maybe not great but certainly better than average:

Sam Madison- 2nd round pick and 4 time pro-bowler
Aaron Ross- 1st round pick, rookie season in 2007
Gibril Wilson- Fast sideline to sideline FS...more then proficient.
Corey Webster was a backup kid...but he is a damned good CB. Would be a starter on our squad.


I would never deny that pass rush isn't necessary....I am saying that Peppers fills a spot we need less than we need backfield help. In both CB and the safety positions.

Remember, Rodney played a huge role in our pass rushing ability....and he ain't no LB.

I don't actually agree that this is the case.

Best case they get a starter at SS, resign Sanders, and there you go. Or they could resign Sanders and have Sanders/Tank Williams at SS.

CB is actually not a glaring weakness, IMO, since they know what they have in Wilhite and Wheatley. Still could use another corner (i.e. Bodden) since they never stay healthy and we want to avoid the Deltha O'Neal contingency plan if at all possible.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

First of all, Madison was like 66 years old.

Actually, he was 33.

Corey Webster actually played most of the game in the second CB spot, IIRC.

And kept Moss from the deep pass on the final drive. Also covered Moss well in the game. Slipped when covering Welker for the TD. He was a kid who, as I said, would be an improvement over anything we currently have.

And let's not forget the awesome James Butler at SS.

He is easily forgotten when Gibril Wilson in the FS role ranked 12th in the league defensively.

Like I said, not a great secondary.

I said the same. I said they were better than average though.

I am realizing that you're more in the mood for arguing than talking fact though. My point originally was that Peppers money was a waste when we needed help elsewhere. You're point...well, not sure what you're point is other than to talk much but say little.

Regardless, it's all opinion.

 

[Mogamedogz]

I just can't see JP coming here either, but I wouldn't really complain!!

The money would be insane, I personally would rather see Ray Lewis play another few yrs at peak performance here for less money--but once again you'd have the conversion factor to deal with. Although I'm sure he could fit in just as easy. Not comparing JP to Lewis by any means, just saying if we wanted to pick up a veteran LB at a cheaper price, Lewis still has a few good yrs left. Obviously I guess he'd go inside, and I'm sure we'd put him to use somehow. Plus you certainly can't #@$% with his leadership ability. JP is probably a much better athlete with a longer future playing span, and he could play on the line too obviously, but as a pure LB Lewis still has a lot left in the tank. Sorry if i took it a little off topic

So you would rather see an undersized, aging, Ray Lewis be brought in and converted into a pass rushing outside linebacker... over Julius Peppers?

Huh?


You do know that Ray plays inside right?

 

[bunzoburns]

Why are we comparing ourselves to the Giants? They run a 4-3? I think a lot of you are really overlooking the transition from the DL to OLB at age 29. I don't care if he played basketball, we are still talking different skill sets than when he was 21 years old.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

The primary reason why Peppers would be brought in is to get after the QB creating ideal matchups for the Pats in the process. And he would be able to do this as few in the league could do. Whatever else he can or can't do is immaterial.

 

[JackBauer]

I am realizing that you're more in the mood for arguing than talking fact though. My point originally was that Peppers money was a waste when we needed help elsewhere. You're point...well, not sure what you're point is other than to talk much but say little.

Regardless, it's all opinion.

I asked you what, specifically, the glaring weaknesses are in the secondary. I haven't received much explanation from you. You claim we need help elsewhere, but pretty much everyone agrees the main priority is improving the pass rush, which in turn improves the other defensive units.

I think it's become clear BB recognizes this. It's a shame you don't.

 

[supafly]

So you would rather see an undersized, aging, Ray Lewis be brought in and converted into a pass rushing outside linebacker... over Julius Peppers?

Huh?


You do know that Ray plays inside right?

yeah, bro i said inside

and if u read my post, i said im not comparing the 2 positions, just saying he'd be a good LB

even apologized for taking the thread off subject a little--chill

and for picking up a LB for abt 5 mill less per year, i'd still rather have r.lewis inside, and use AD to his abilities

peppers wants haynesworth money

read first before being so critical

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

I asked you what, specifically, the glaring weaknesses are in the secondary. I haven't received much explanation from you. You claim we need help elsewhere, but pretty much everyone agrees the main priority is improving the pass rush, which in turn improves the other defensive units.

I think it's become clear BB recognizes this. It's a shame you don't.

Actually, I have never said that we don't need an improved pass rush. I would be the first to say that we do.

My argument in this thread was that Peppers was a huge chunk of money that could be better dispersed amongst several other needs ie; defensive backfield.

And apparently your pipeline to what "BB recognizes" is slightly askew, as evidenced by recent signings and lack of a big splash on the OLB front.

 

[mayoclinic]

Actually, I have never said that we don't need an improved pass rush. I would be the first to say that we do.

My argument in this thread was that Peppers was a huge chunk of money that could be better dispersed amongst several other needs ie; defensive backfield.

And apparently your pipeline to what "BB recognizes" is slightly askew, as evidenced by recent signings and lack of a big splash on the OLB front.

I think you are probably correct about spending the money better by distributing it rather than making one big splash. Of course, we don't know for sure. BB may have tried to go after Peppers but couldn't get Carolina to come down on their asking price (or get Peppers to agree to a manageable contract, or both), and then went back to plan B and filled some holes with lesser signings. That would explain the 10 day gap between the first wave of signings and the second. Not saying that's what happened, just that it's plausible.

Either way, I think we're in great shape. We clearly still do need a better pass rush, whether through FA (Taylor, Peppers) or the draft.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't think he can do worse than Vrabel and Willie Mc did in coverage, I think you'd get the same and even more. And I think he would be much better in Rushing the Passer.

?

Vrabel was good in coverage. I don't care how athletic a guy is; if he's been playing 4-3 DE his entire career, he isn't going to learn how to cover as a linebacker overnight.