Florio, King, Moss on Cassel's future

[Synovia]

Isn't there some glitch where if he stays he's an RFA next year instead of a regular FA?

Hes an RFA, but the tag is like 2.5M, or 110% of his previous salary, whichever is greater.

So, if they RFA tag him, its at like 16M

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Isn't there some glitch where if he stays he's an RFA next year instead of a regular FA?

As of the moment, yes: unless a new CBA is negotiated, he will be an RFA. The RFA tender must be at least 110% of the 2008 salary, but if there's no salary cap, can you really be sure the Pats won't go that route?

 

[patriots pam]

While I agree that Det has tons of issues, QB is the most important one. The only reason they wouldn't want Cassel is if they're grabbing Stafford/Sanchez. In my opinnion, they'd be better off swinging the Dal's #1 for Cassel, and dropping #1.1 for a big body, like Munroe (now that Smith appears to have gone nuts)

Oops. I wasn't clear, I actually meant I'm not convinced they'll use their high picks on QB period, whether it's Cassel or Stafford/Sanchez. I agree that QB is definitely a HUGE need for them. The QB merry-go-round they had going on was brutal for the team and tough to watch (a great friend is a lifelong Lions fan, so I watched a lot of their games with him). But they also have enough other needs that whatever they decide it's 6 of 1, half dozen of another for the immediate future, IMHO. If they do go QB, I'm definitely in the Cassel is the better option for them camp. Surely that's not just my bias as a Pats' fan, right?

 

[Jimke]

As of the moment, yes: unless a new CBA is negotiated, he will be an RFA. The RFA tender must be at least 110% of the 2008 salary, but if there's no salary cap, can you really be sure the Pats won't go that route?

The Patriots aren't in the business of making Matt Cassel rich.

They will try to field a competitive team at reasonable cost. Just

because there isn't a salary cap next year, I don't expect them

to throw crazy amounts of money at the players like Al Davis

has just done.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The Patriots aren't in the business of making Matt Cassel rich.

They will try to field a competitive team at reasonable cost. Just

because there isn't a salary cap next year, I don't expect them

to throw crazy amounts of money at the players like Al Davis

has just done.

Paying Cassel $15M to potentially warm the bench for the entire season and then leave for a 2011 3rd is incompatible with that notion.

 

[BradyManny]

Swap 1st round picks...#13 for #23 and Cassel, with a guaranteed 2nd in 2010 that becomes a 1st on performance escalators. It's do-able.

I dunno about the pick swap...too risky...

Whoever we take at #13 might very well be the same guy we'd take at #23. As you are well are, some of the prospects who are considered #10-20 are poor fits for the 3-4, USC backers, Laurinaitis...What if J. Smith, Raji, Curry, Monroe are gone...we'd be sitting at #13 looking to take the same guys we would at #23, only we'd have to pay them a lot more...

I say we should try and move into the 2010 1st round where top picks won't be as expensive (presumably, if we take Goodell at his word).

If we trade him to a KC, for example, Cassel probably brings them to a little below 500 team, meaning a 1st rounder next year from them would probably be in the teens. If its Detroit, if they pick Smith w #1, then with the receivers they have, Cassel would have enough success to get them a few wins, but they'd still probably have a top 10 pick next year.

 

[Fencer]

With both Bledsoe and Branch, the Pats said "We want a first-round pick, period" and didn't much care which year they got it. So that's the way to bet.

I still like my idea of grabbing the Dallas first/Detroit second pair and sending back a face-savingly large basket of second-day picks, but teams don't seem to think that way. Maybe it makes the scouts feel they wasted their year or something.

 

[Synovia]

The Patriots aren't in the business of making Matt Cassel rich.

They will try to field a competitive team at reasonable cost. J.

Every year the patriots spend up to the cap. They're one of the richest franchises in the NFL. An uncapped year gives them an advantage over every team in the NFL except for maybe washington and dallas. I'd expect them to use that advantage.

 

[bakes781]

At #13 you could be looking at guys like...

Raji
Jenkins
Andre Smith
& Maulugua

Where as at #23 it's more like...

English
Alphonso Smith
Oher
& Cushing

 

[ctpatsfan77]

At #13 you could be looking at guys like...

Raji
Jenkins
Andre Smith
& Maulugua

Where as at #23 it's more like...

English
Alphonso Smith
Oher
& Cushing

Bakes--

Are you trying to make a case for staying at #23?

 

[bakes781]

well that all depends on who you like, but I think there's a slight drop from 13 to 23 in talent depending on the position. I think DL and OL could be a significant upgrade.

 

[Jimke]

Every year the patriots spend up to the cap. They're one of the richest franchises in the NFL. An uncapped year gives them an advantage over every team in the NFL except for maybe washington and dallas. I'd expect them to use that advantage.

Bill Belichick has always set a value on players. I don't expect him to

be any different in the future. No way they start paying 15 million

dollars a year for players other than a quarterback. The Patriots

will have a huge advantage over small market teams with limited

revenue. Some of these teams will have to move to remain

competitive.

 

[Synovia]

Bill Belichick has always set a value on players. I don't expect him to

be any different in the future..

Yes, and that value has always been based on the cap. Without the cap, theres no constraint. In the case of a league with an uncapped year, as long as its not multiple years, theres no effect on roster flexibility.


If the patriots do not use their income advantage to create a roster advantage during an uncapped year, thats just stupid.

 

[signbabybrady]

Count me as one who thinks it would be absolutely ******ed if Detroit didn't try to get Cassel.

They have had like one good QB in franchise history and they have sucked at drafting the past decade or so.

They have two 1st RD picks and I think a few extra in the next few RDs too.

They have a WR in Calvin Johnson to give Cassel a good target.

They should try to keep #3 and Take a OL or Curry/another top De talent and use #20 and some extra if needed to get Cassel and since the pats are pretty stocked this year in RDs 2-4 we could take the extra if needed from them next year.

Cost them relativelylittle this year and gets them the QB they sorely need. THEY WOULD BE STUPID NOT TO TRY and in my biased opinion should even be willing to give up there #1 overall.

 

[BradyManny]

At #13 you could be looking at guys like...

Raji
Jenkins
Andre Smith
& Maulugua

Where as at #23 it's more like...

English
Alphonso Smith
Oher
& Cushing

Jenkins stock is dropping and doesn't appear to be a Pats fit anyway.

Rey is not a Pats fit, and his stock has dropped over the combine as well.

Andre Smith's stock is dropping off the face of the planet, and he's not quick enough to be a Patriots O-Lineman.

The odds of Raji being there at #13 are extremely slim. And even then, Brace may be better value in the 2nd round, and we are working to lock up Wilfork long term.

So basically, based on what you have presented, I would say the #23 pick is a vastly superior spot for the Pats to pick in than the #13 spot.

 

[JSn]

I think Alphonso Smith at #23 is good value, personally. Better if we can trade down and get him. The higher the round one pick, the closer to the LOS the player should be.

 

[BradyManny]

I think Alphonso Smith at #23 is good value, personally. Better if we can trade down and get him. The higher the round one pick, the closer to the LOS the player should be.

Agree - which is why I don't see #13 working for us this year. J. Smith will be gone, Aaron Curry will be gone. Monroe will probably be gone. Too much risk at #13 for us, this is a year when the middle of the first round turns out to be less valuable to us then the 20-40 range.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Monetarily there's little downside to sitting on the bench behind Brady - no one's going to question Cassel's skills because Brady returns as the starter rather than he. But since I assume Cassel wants to start, a team like KC, that has lots of room to bring in new, good complimentary players, makes sense... and it can happen if the Pats don't demand too much in return... a win win win for all three parties involved.

Cassel becomes an RFA next year if he stays with the Pats this year due to the uncapped year. So again, assuming the Pats tender Cassel the RFA offer, then teams will have to pay I think a 1st and 3rd. He's not getting any more value by sitting out a year.

 

[JoeSixPat]

As of the moment, yes: unless a new CBA is negotiated, he will be an RFA. The RFA tender must be at least 110% of the 2008 salary, but if there's no salary cap, can you really be sure the Pats won't go that route?

As much as we all focus on the salary cap, as a practical matter owners also tend not to like to spend $30 million over two years to guys who are going to be on the bench. Sure, he's an insurance policy for Brady, but a $30 million insurance policy?

Also keep in mind that as an RFA tendered a $16 million salary, teams would have to give up a 1st and a 3rd to get him.

If they haven't been able to work a trade that good this year, they would know before offering him the RFA tender of $16 million next year that they're running a pretty high risk of putting themselves in the same situation.

I think we can all agree that the Patriots likely would prefer to trade Cassel this year but have run the risk of keeping him this season by tagging him, and having Cassel sign the tender, and then unable or unwilling to find a trading partner that 1. Cassel likes, 2. Will pay Cassel what he wants and 3. Willing to give decent compensation to the Patriots. With Brady's health technically in question I can understand a willingness to risk $15 million on a backup for one season. But I don't see them willing to spend $30 million over 2 seasons, especially if Brady's fully back to health (and if he's not healthy then that's another matter entirely)

If they haven't been able to achieve that this year I don't see them taking a higher risk of paying Cassel another $16 million next season - so my assumption is that they would not lock him in as a RFA at $16 million.

From Cassel's perspective, if someone offered him the option of taking $25 million guaranteed this year, or $30 million for this year and next to sit on the bench, plus whatever he can get as a free agent in 2011 (yes I know in this hypothetical we're three years in the future) that's not a bad deal for Cassel... counting a guestimate $30 million signing bonus in 2011, we'd be talking $60 million over three years - all of it guranteed each year -for an average of $20 million a season.

Not bad.... and much more than he'd get in three years signing a long term deal this season. But again I don't think the Patriots would lock him in for 2010.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Didn't you also say that the Patriots would never franchise Cassel? Come on. The Pats are going to do whatever is best for the team.

1. They are going to look to get value for him in return. And no that is not a 6 pack of Sam Adams and a 6th round pick.
2. He's a very expensive insurance policy that could be the bridge to the future if certain health issues don't work themselves out.