Reiss: Cassel most likely to KC

[JSn]

Chiefs fans seem to have a strong disagreement with your analysis of Thigpen.

I think maybe we throw the word "analysis" aroun a little too freely here...

 

[reflexblue]

so can this be clarified? is the only reason people are really saying that KC is likley because pioli is now there? cause all i have heard from kc fans is how much they like t-pen. i would have thought the "most likley" were detroit n minny.

Like i said in the thread starter Reiss said that the pats don't want to pay out 29 million for two QB's, and that he thought Cassel would end up being traded to KC Before the draft. That Pioli had drafted him and that he knew what he had in Cassel (a young starting QB) vs drafting a rookie QB which is a gamble. The part highlighted was the implication.

 

[bakes781]

I think Pioli is going to want to make his stamp on this team early. He's already replaced the HC and I think his next move will be to bring in a new signal caller. Whether that be through the draft or FA we shall see.

 

[PatsDparty]

I was tempted to post this last week, but a friend of mine (who works for a certain network who shall not be named around here haha) said that he heard Cassel was going to KC. He did not give me any talk of what compensation would be sent to the Pats, but just said that discussions were ongoing. I would not start a thread based on this, but figured I'd add it to this one. All it really tells me is that there are probably discussions going on that involve trading cassel (since some still think the pats will keep him as insurance).

 

[patfanken]

I've been thinking about this one. The Pats trade Cassel to KC for Tony Gonsalez, a 2010 2nd and swap their picks in end and 3rd round this year.

KC gets a PROVEN Franchise QB who has played at the highest levels and succeeded, AND still has upside.

They Pats get a player they can use in the short term and one who doesn't want to be in KC any way.

Meanwhile KC STILL has at least one pick in each round, while the Pats move up SIGNIFICANTLY in both rounds. Having the 35th pick is about the same as having the 32nd. I read where "they" said there were 37 players that have first round grades coming out.

BTW- taking a QB early in the first round is such a crap shoot. Even the successes like Manning, Rivers, and the kid with the Bengals contributed little or nothing until year 2 or 3, while the fact remains more than half don't even earn their rookie contracts.

Scott would be well served to have a QB like Cassel as a big part of his rebuilding and the cost is a guy who doesn't want to be there and moving down in a couple of rounds

 

[A.C Vegas]

why would they trade a young QB for and old TE when they can jsut take a pick in the second or third round and draft a young TE to compete with Watson and Thomas.

 

[jmt57]

There have been some well thought-out possible trade scenarios in the previous comments; I do agree that Cassel-to-KC is a distinct possibility. I also want to comment that the scenario of the Chiefs drafting Sanchez and also signing Garcia shouldn't hurt them capwise because I don't think Garcia will cost that much. He's already stated that "I feel I can still contribute. I'm not sure what my role will be with another team. I'm not looking at it like I need to start and be the man. Hopefully, I'll have some opportunities out there. I'm pretty sure there's going to be something out there for me." That sounds to me like a guy willing to be a backup - and accept backup pay.

One thing I believe nobody has mentioned however, is that the Chiefs just announced they will change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense next year. That's going to mean that they are going to need to bring in multiple players that can fit the new defensive scheme - which means they probably don't want to be collecting draft picks, not trading them away.

If that's the case I can see them sticking with Thigpen in 2009 and then making a decision after the season whether they want to stick with him, or draft a QB in 2010.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Chiefs fans seem to have a strong disagreement with your analysis of Thigpen.

Well I dont think he's that good myself and from what I see KC had to run some pretty wacky offensive schemes just to have him move the ball. Im sure Pioli and the new coach there will decide if he's the one to take them forward

To me this comes down to Pioli and where he grades Stafford or Sanchez in terms of a first round pick. If he thinks either is top 5, I think KC takes one of them at #3. If they don't, then I see Pioli trading down to take an OT and a DE/LB and then offering the high #2nd for Cassel - you know fine well he'll be aware what BB and the NE FO value him at

What I wonder though is will someone trade for Cassel before draft day? Because I assume that limits a lot of options for teams depending how it pans out

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Like i said in the thread starter Reiss said that the pats don't want to pay out 29 million for two QB's, and that he thought Cassel would end up being traded to KC Before the draft. That Pioli had drafted him and that he knew what he had in Cassel (a young starting QB) vs drafting a rookie QB which was a gamble. The part highlighted was the implication.

:agree:

Scott P. and BB are going to work out a deal that makes both parties happy. Cassel I could see going to KC as they will pick up a top defensive player avaliable with their #3 pick (Curry, Orakpo, Raja or Jenkins) and trade their 34 to us as well as a veteran player which would help us this year. I think a vet like Bernard Pollard (please do not ban me as he ended TB's season last year) would be a huge addition and could fill our SS position right away and this kid is always blocking kicks. Tony Gonzalez on the field with Moss and Welker would be tough to cover as if they were on separate teams the would all demand double coverage. Pair that with Watson in a double TE set ace backfield with TB running the show I know defenses will be screwed.

KC I thought had the best draft last year picking up a top DL and OL on my draft board (after Jake Long) plus a top corner who produced in his rookie year. I think Flowers is a total Tampa Two type corner who can can be physical and set the edge better then many CB in the NFL. I think Glen Dorsey will have a great sophomore campaign and Brandan Albert having a full year at LT under his belt will guard MC backside. I could see them going with Curry at #3 as Donnie Edwards must be 35 by now and pair him opposite Derrick Johnson would help their defense a lot. KC had a ton of picks last year and I think will attack the FA market this year and with a boatload of money to spend.

They get their #3 to draft the top defensive player, plus receive a franchise QB. We would receive #34 (good spot for players who slipped out of the first round) plus an established vet to help us this year on our SB run. I think BB is a genius when he has draft picks as he could put a few in the bank for 2010 or move up to grab a player he has targeted.

 

[reflexblue]

There have been some well thought-out possible trade scenarios in the previous comments; I do agree that Cassel-to-KC is a distinct possibility. I also want to comment that the scenario of the Chiefs drafting Sanchez and also signing Garcia shouldn't hurt them capwise because I don't think Garcia will cost that much. He's already stated that "I feel I can still contribute. I'm not sure what my role will be with another team. I'm not looking at it like I need to start and be the man. Hopefully, I'll have some opportunities out there. I'm pretty sure there's going to be something out there for me." That sounds to me like a guy willing to be a backup - and accept backup pay.

One thing I believe nobody has mentioned however, is that the Chiefs just announced they will change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense next year. That's going to mean that they are going to need to bring in multiple players that can fit the new defensive scheme - which means they probably don't want to be collecting draft picks, not trading them away.

If that's the case I can see them sticking with Thigpen in 2009 and then making a decision after the season whether they want to stick with him, or draft a QB in 2010.

Someone brought up the trade scenario of KC's 2nd this year and their 1st next...If KC did that they could then trade its '09 first for multiple picks this year. Maybe someone else's 1st and 2nd 4th ?... what ever. That way they could still go after the defensive help they need. I'm sure Pioli would rather trade that #3 pick over all for 2-3 picks this year or next.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well I dont think he's that good myself and from what I see KC had to run some pretty wacky offensive schemes just to have him move the ball. Im sure Pioli and the new coach there will decide if he's the one to take them forward

To me this comes down to Pioli and where he grades Stafford or Sanchez in terms of a first round pick. If he thinks either is top 5, I think KC takes one of them at #3. If they don't, then I see Pioli trading down to take an OT and a DE/LB and then offering the high #2nd for Cassel - you know fine well he'll be aware what BB and the NE FO value him at

What I wonder though is will someone trade for Cassel before draft day? Because I assume that limits a lot of options for teams depending how it pans out

I think that nails it right there, and this pick is going to be the first major call for Pioli. I don't really put Haley as that first major call, since I figure most GMs get at least 2 calls on head coaches before the owner gets around to firing them.

 

[tombonneau]

Chiefs fans seem to have a strong disagreement with your analysis of Thigpen.

Exactly. People who think Thigpen "looked good" at the end of the season probably picked him up off the waiver wire in their fantasy league and saw he had good production but never watched any games.

Thigpen looked like a backup QB, no more no less. Let's not forget the guy won one game last year, and that's with some decent offensive talent around him. I know their D stinks, but people are talking about Pioli building his offense around a guy who took his team to 1-15. I don't see that happening.

 

[tombonneau]

Someone brought up the trade scenario of KC's 2nd this year and their 1st next...If KC did that they could then trade its '09 first for multiple picks this year. Maybe someone else's 1st and 2nd 4th ?... what ever. That way they could still go after the defensive help they need. I'm sure Pioli would rather trade that #3 pick over all for 2-3 picks this year or next.

I think the key to any trade would be for KC to successfully trade out of the #3 spot for a team sprung on Crabtree or Sanchez. They could then deal that first (say in the low-teens) for Cassel and lock up their 2009 QB while positioning themselves well for 2010 with two firsts.

 

[Easywolf32]

Good I hope we get Curry and a CB for our 23rd pick.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Reiss Cassel most likly to KC

That's a good point. Do you think that may be too much youth? That we might trade up to target 3-4 players who would be more impact players? That might save some roster space to land a key free agent....

You guys are right. How many of these players can we keep on the roster anyway? Five or six including FAs? Unless we are cutting many present roster guys.
It's great to have six or seven top three round pics but we ain't Detroit and we can't hide them unless we hire someone like Tonya Harding's choice of Jeff Gillooly to wack them with a pipe and IR them for a year.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Well I dont think he's that good myself and from what I see KC had to run some pretty wacky offensive schemes just to have him move the ball. Im sure Pioli and the new coach there will decide if he's the one to take them forward

To me this comes down to Pioli and where he grades Stafford or Sanchez in terms of a first round pick. If he thinks either is top 5, I think KC takes one of them at #3. If they don't, then I see Pioli trading down to take an OT and a DE/LB and then offering the high #2nd for Cassel - you know fine well he'll be aware what BB and the NE FO value him at

What I wonder though is will someone trade for Cassel before draft day? Because I assume that limits a lot of options for teams depending how it pans out

Any other year and Sanchez is a second or third rounder. Even Carroll said he was not ready. You want to invest a #3 pick for a "definite maybe"?
DW Toys

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Reiss Cassel most likly to KC

They'd be the least likely team to give up too much though.

Yeah - but it could be a win win win - for everyone involved.

Taking a pick as high as #3 in this particular draft might not be to Belichick's liking... a 2nd this year and the possibility of another high draft pick next year (when there's the possibility of no cap) might be a better scenario for the Pats.

Cassel meanwhile is traded to a team that has a lot of salary cap space - both to satisfy his monetary needs, and needs to have enough talent around him so as not to get killled and have the team do well.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that Cassel can block any trade - so if it doesn't make sense for him in terms of money or is to too crappy a team, its just not going to happen anyway.

For Pioli he's viewed as keeping his #3 pick AND addressing a need at QB, making him look very very good and maybe taking a bit of pressure off Cassel who isn't necessarilly viewed as replacing the #3 pick in the draft.

This trade IS going to have to be a plus for everyone involved and KC, as Reiss points out, makes the most sense (though this really isn't "news" that Reiss has - just educated speculation.

 

[stcjones]

why would they trade a young QB for and old TE when they can jsut take a pick in the second or third round and draft a young TE to compete with Watson and Thomas.

I tend to agree with you here........Gonzalez has been a GREAT TE in this league.......phenomenal skills.....but he is approaching the downside of his career.......I dont see the Pats being too crazy about the Gonzalez and a few picks for Cassel scenario...

 

[Jimke]

Re: Reiss Cassel most likly to KC

You guys are right. How many of these players can we keep on the roster anyway? Five or six including FAs? Unless we are cutting many present roster guys.
It's great to have six or seven top three round pics but we ain't Detroit and we can't hide them unless we hire someone like Tonya Harding's choice of Jeff Gillooly to wack them with a pipe and IR them for a year.
DW Toys

Don't forget that only 17 players are signed beyond the 2009 season.

Better keep a few extra draft picks on the roster this year to train

for 2010.

 

[spacecrime]

Or ( as everyone seems to forget) Thigpen isnt actually a bad QB,

if thigpen was our starting QB instead of brady, you´d prefer him to cassel?