The Patriots roster as of 2/16/09

[ctpatsfan77]

As a useful starting point, according to Miguel, these are the players the Patriots have under contract as of 2/15/09 (in order of decreasing cap hit):

QB (4) Cassel, Brady, O'Connell, Gutierrez
RB (4) Faulk, Maroney, Morris, Green-Ellis
WR (4) Moss, Welker, Washington, Aiken
TE (3) Watson, D. Thomas, DeVree
OL (10) Light, Koppen, Neal, Mankins, Kaczur, Yates, O'Callaghan, Connolly, LeVoir, Wendell
Total: 25

DL (6) Seymour, Green, Warren, Wilfork, Smith, Adams
LB (10) A. Thomas, Vrabel, Mayo, Bruschi, Crable, Guyton, Redd, Ruud, Craig, Robertson
CB (5) Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Slater, Richardson
S (2) Meriweather, Spann
Total: 23

K Gostkowski
P Malone
LS ????
Total: 2

Total Players Under Contract: 50

 

[AzPatsFan]

With these fifty signed Miguel estimates $3.8 million in cap space. The rookie pool wil merely substitute several cheap rookies for someof these players.

For example, if the Pats draft a LB high, is it hard to envision Tedy not making the Team? Cap Savings $2.007 million. If the Pats draft a OL linemen on the first day, is it really hard to envision Yates not making the team for a cap savings of $683,000 ?

The total cap savings would then be 3.9 + 2.69 million or $6.59 million less the CAP cost of two rooks.

 

[mgteich]

OFFENSE (25)
This group is about ready to go. We do need a wide receiver and a FB/STer, and have one too many OL's and QB's. Re-sign Gaffney and Evans and we are fine. Of course there is room for upgrade.

DEFENSE (25)
We are short a couple of safeties and could use upgrades in several areas.

SPECIAL TEAMS (3)
We need a deep snapper.

BOTTOM LINE
This is about as good as it gets going into an off-season, especially given that this a good draft in which we have extra early picks.

As a useful starting point, according to Miguel, these are the players the Patriots have under contract as of 2/15/09 (in order of decreasing cap hit):

QB (4) Cassel, Brady, O'Connell, Gutierrez
RB (4) Faulk, Maroney, Morris, Green-Ellis
WR (4) Moss, Welker, Washington, Aiken
TE (3) Watson, D. Thomas, DeVree
OL (10) Light, Koppen, Neal, Mankins, Kaczur, Yates, O'Callaghan, Connolly, LeVoir, Wendell
Total: 25

DL (6) Seymour, Green, Warren, Wilfork, Smith, Adams
LB (10) A. Thomas, Vrabel, Mayo, Bruschi, Crable, Guyton, Redd, Ruud, Craig, Robertson
CB (5) Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Slater, Richardson
S (2) Meriweather, Spann
Total: 23

K Gostkowski
P Malone
LS ????
Total: 2

Total Players Under Contract: 50

 

[mgteich]

Let's see. Could I envision drafting a LB and an OG on the first day. Yes, I could. Could I see cutting Bruschi and Yates so that I could keep Ruud/Robertson and Connelly/Wendall? No!

With these fifty signed Miguel estimates $3.8 million in cap space. The rookie pool wil merely substitute several cheap rookies for someof these players.

For example, if the Pats draft a LB high, is it hard to envision Tedy not making the Team? Cap Savings $2.007 million. If the Pats draft a OL linemen on the first day, is it really hard to envision Yates not making the team for a cap savings of $683,000 ?

The total cap savings would then be 3.9 + 2.69 million or $6.59 million less the CAP cost of two rooks.

 

[signbabybrady]

looking at that highlights the one true need....Safety.

top to bottom there is talent at every position obviously with only 50 players the proper depth isn't there but a lot of good starters....if we get one good safety even just Rodney back there isnt anything that can't be done thru the draft.

This is as far as just next year for the future when you figure next years expiring contracts and some guys age other needs may arise but the 50 we have under contract for this up coming season are pretty damn good and with a draft class easily look like a SB contender leaving the Cassell manuever and any FAs as a way to put together another dominant team a la 07.

 

[mayoclinic]

Here's the current roster with players who's contracts expire after 2009 listed in bold:

As a useful starting point, according to Miguel, these are the players the Patriots have under contract as of 2/15/09 (in order of decreasing cap hit):

QB (4) Cassel, Brady, O'Connell, Gutierrez
RB (4) Faulk, Maroney, Morris, Green-Ellis
WR (4) Moss, Welker, Washington, Aiken
TE (3) Watson, D. Thomas, DeVree
OL (10) Light, Koppen, Neal, Mankins, Kaczur, Yates, O'Callaghan, Connolly, LeVoir, Wendell
Total: 25

DL (6) Seymour, Green, Warren, Wilfork, Smith, Adams
LB (10) A. Thomas, Vrabel, Mayo, Bruschi, Crable, Guyton, Redd, Ruud, Craig, Robertson
CB (5) Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Slater, Richardson
S (2) Meriweather, Spann
Total: 23

K Gostkowski
P Malone
LS ????
Total: 2

Total Players Under Contract: 50

So 62% of our current roster (31/50) have contracts which expire after next year with no CBA currently in place. That includes 3/3 TEs, 8/10 OLs, 5/6 DLs, 6/10 LBs, 3/7 DBs, and both our currently signed P and K. Not good. Some of those players are JAGs (I currently count 20 JAGs based on current contribution - Gutierrez, Green-Ellis, Washington, Aiken, DeVree, Yates, O'Callaghan, Connelly, Wendell, Levoir, Smith, Adams, Redd, Ruud, Craig, Robertson, Slater, Richardson, Spann and Malone - plus 4 potential retirees in Faulk, Bruschi, Vrabel and Neal, and 2 possible cuts in Morris and Green), and I'm not being alarmist, but that is an awful lot of contracts to expire in one year, and the lack of a CBA is not going to help (I think, since I don't really understand the CBA intricacies very well). Almost half of those (15/31) are starters or key backups: Cassel, Faulk, Watson, Thomas, Neal, Mankins, Kaczur, Seymour, Green, Wilfork, Vrabel, Guyton, Hobbs, Gostkowski and Malone. BB values continuity, and even if many of those players are replaceable that would probably be an unacceptable amount of turnover for the team.

This also suggests that some of our "urgent" needs for 2009 may be less urgent if we look at 2010. We need OL, DL and TE in order to field a competitive team after next year much more than we need LB or DB, even though those positions are the biggest holes to fill to make us better for 2009.

Again, without being alarmist, I think that solidifying the roster after next year may be our biggest challenge to continuing the tradition of SB contending teams. I hope we don't see a mass exodus and a rebuilding process reminiscent of Tennessee after 2006.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Here's the current roster with players who's contracts expire after 2009 listed in bold:

The simplest explanation for why it's not as dire as you make it out to be is "not all free agents are created equal."

• Few people expect Cassel to be a Patriot in 2010.
• Green-Ellis, DeVree, Wendell, Guyton, Redd, Craig, and Robertson, and probably LeVoir and Malone as well, are all ERFAs after 2009, meaning that they can't go anywhere if the Patriots offer them the minimum salary appropriate to their experience levels for 2010.
• If 2010 is uncapped, it'll take six years to reach unrestricted free agency. If that is the case, then these will be the Patriots' UFAs: Aiken, Bruschi, Faulk, Green, Light, Neal, Seymour, Vrabel, Washington, Watson, Wilfork. Still a lot of names, but not quite as daunting as before--plus there wouldn't be a salary cap to worry about, either. The remaining players will be RFAs, meaning the Patriots can offer them a one-year tender that requires significant draft pick compensation if they're signed away.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Do we still have to put Cassel in fron of Brady on the depth chart

Well i think this will be a boring FA this year.. Julius Peppers would be a nice addition, but I dont think that will happen, then again 2 years ago i did not think what would happen happened.. I think the whole cba thing is going to affect the way we do buisness this year..

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Do we still have to put Cassel in fron of Brady on the depth chart

Heh. As I noted though, it's based on decreasing cap hits.

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't have the time to explain right this second--I should in a little while, but the situation is not as dire as you make it out to be. I will edit this later if no one else steps up to the plate in the interim.

I didn't say it was dire. In fact, I specifically said I didn't want to be alarmist. BUT it is somewhat concerning, and is a much greater number of contracts coming up than I can ever remember us having at one time. Combined with the CBA issue, it puts is in more uncertainty than I can remember.

No need to panic. But definitely something of keep in mind.

 

[mayoclinic]

The simplest explanation for why it's not as dire as you make it out to be is "not all free agents are created equal."

• Few people expect Cassel to be a Patriot in 2010.
• Green-Ellis, DeVree, Wendell, Guyton, Redd, Craig, and Robertson, and probably LeVoir and Malone as well, are all ERFAs after 2009, meaning that they can't go anywhere if the Patriots offer them the minimum salary appropriate to their experience levels for 2010.
• If 2010 is uncapped, it'll take six years to reach unrestricted free agency. If that is the case, then these will be the Patriots' UFAs: Aiken, Bruschi, Faulk, Green, Light, Neal, Seymour, Vrabel, Washington, Watson, Wilfork. Still a lot of names, but not quite as daunting as before--plus there wouldn't be a salary cap to worry about, either. The remaining players will be RFAs, meaning the Patriots can offer them a one-year tender that requires significant draft pick compensation if they're signed away.

I agree with everything you wrote. Again, I wasn't trying to paint a "dire" situation or alarm anyone, as I stated in my post. But whereas our situation for this year looks pretty good, with a decent basic roster already in place and only some holes to fil and a few positions to upgrade, there is a lot of work for next year, and a lot more uncertainty. Nothing that can't be overcome, but the Pats have always tried to stay ahead of the game, and I would hope they are looking at a lot of these issues.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Nothing that can't be overcome, but the Pats have always tried to stay ahead of the game, and I would hope they are looking at a lot of these issues.

Well, 15+ draft picks over the next two years should help.

 

[mayoclinic]

Well, 15+ draft picks over the next two years should help.

Yes it should. I personally hope we focus on the defense this year (with a few offensive players in selected spots), and then focus on the offense in a major way in 2010. We need to revisit our RB, WR, TE and OL situation by then.

 

[Jimke]

I didn't say it was dire. In fact, I specifically said I didn't want to be alarmist. BUT it is somewhat concerning, and is a much greater number of contracts coming up than I can ever remember us having at one time. Combined with the CBA issue, it puts is in more uncertainty than I can remember.

No need to panic. But definitely something of keep in mind.

Actually, what you mentioned is a major problem. I expect that all the
other teams are in the same boat as the Patriots.

One way to lessen the problem is to extend Wilfork and Mankins but
how do you accomplish this with 4 million dollars of cap room? This
is the down side if Cassel cannot be traded.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots hold on to most of their
draft choices and draft a defensive lineman and an offensive lineman
with 2010 in mind.

 

[signbabybrady]

The simplest explanation for why it's not as dire as you make it out to be is "not all free agents are created equal."

• Few people expect Cassel to be a Patriot in 2010.
• Green-Ellis, DeVree, Wendell, Guyton, Redd, Craig, and Robertson, and probably LeVoir and Malone as well, are all ERFAs after 2009, meaning that they can't go anywhere if the Patriots offer them the minimum salary appropriate to their experience levels for 2010.
• If 2010 is uncapped, it'll take six years to reach unrestricted free agency. If that is the case, then these will be the Patriots' UFAs: Aiken, Bruschi, Faulk, Green, Light, Neal, Seymour, Vrabel, Washington, Watson, Wilfork. Still a lot of names, but not quite as daunting as before--plus there wouldn't be a salary cap to worry about, either. The remaining players will be RFAs, meaning the Patriots can offer them a one-year tender that requires significant draft pick compensation if they're signed away.

and if they re-do the CBA avoiding the incapped years?

its not that dire becaues it is not the up coming season...there is plenty of time to manage this...there are FA to come this year that would likely be here beyond next, there is a draft class, and once Cassell is dealt with there is money to use.

the key I get from this list is that we already have 50 guys under contract that are pretty damn good....give me one starting safety and I think we have a SB competing team and Draft aside they will do more than just bring in one safety Than you add the draft.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, the hole is at safety. If we sign or re-sign a free agent safety or two (and a fullback, a wide recevier and a deep snapper), the focus will shift to 2010 for two reasons. First, there are a lot of contracts ending. Also, it usually takes at least a year to develop a player who isn't draft in the top dozen. There may be better options but we would be in fine shape if we were to re-sign our own free agents.

looking at that highlights the one true need....Safety.

top to bottom there is talent at every position obviously with only 50 players the proper depth isn't there but a lot of good starters....if we get one good safety even just Rodney back there isnt anything that can't be done thru the draft.

This is as far as just next year for the future when you figure next years expiring contracts and some guys age other needs may arise but the 50 we have under contract for this up coming season are pretty damn good and with a draft class easily look like a SB contender leaving the Cassell manuever and any FAs as a way to put together another dominant team a la 07.

 

[Nestapats]

Yates and Washington have just been cut according to reiss
This surprises me

 

[mayoclinic]

Yates and Washington have just been cut according to reiss
This surprises me

Wow. Didn't see either of those coming. Between then, we've saved around 12% of Cassel's cap hit.

I'm not a Yates fan, but unless we resign Hochstein we need depth at OG. Washington was a great STer, and with Woods a RFA and Izzo a UFA (and aging, and with steroid issues hanging over him) I thought we needed his leadership of STs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yates and Washington have just been cut according to reiss
This surprises me

Now we're going to see the "tree" wisdom begin to be tested. Washington should draw interest from Denver or Kansas City (more likely K.C., I would guess).

 

[miDeuce]

Yates and Washington have just been cut according to reiss
This surprises me

A quick look at Miguel's page tells me that they were the highest earning non-starters on the team. Aiken is right there as well, but I guess they chose to keep him over washington as the special team WR. Gotta open up some cap space one way or another...