Pats best use for Cassel

[billdog3484]

Trade Cassel and build a defense that can absolutly carry them the first couple of weeks, then with a healthy brady and new contracts for 2009 free agents they would be set for the playoff push.

what is unrealistic here is the belief that building a defense through the draft that would carry the patriots for the first couple of weeks. rookies dont come in and dominate early. it usually takes one year. it is possible we will bring in another mayo type player through the draft, but to think we could have more than 1 and have a dominating defense with these players just is not going to happen

 

[AzPatsFan]

ok...but to assess this fairly, you'd have to look at the winning potential of this year's team comparing:

A. Cassel as QB insurance policy
vs.
B. $14.6 million in other free agents

IOW, you could practically choose any other two FAs on the market instead of Cassel.

And how would that compare with having the possibility of NO Quaterback for a number of games? There are no FAs out there that would materially effect the Defense more than then the inability to score on a naked Offense. Beside the Pats wil be using 5 first day picks on a Defense that doesn't need but three more players max, and may have one or two of them already.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

And how would that compare with having the possibility of NO Quaterback for a number of games? There are no FAs out there that would materially effect the Defense more than then the inability to score on a naked Offense. Beside the Pats wil be using 5 first day picks on a Defense that doesn't need but three more players max, and may have one or two of them already.

Brady ain't starting game 1?????

 

[Deus Irae]

And how would that compare with having the possibility of NO Quaterback for a number of games? There are no FAs out there that would materially effect the Defense more than then the inability to score on a naked Offense. Beside the Pats wil be using 5 first day picks on a Defense that doesn't need but three more players max, and may have one or two of them already.

I promise you right now that the Patriots will not play even one regular season game next season without a quarterback.

 

[patchick]

And how would that compare with having the possibility of NO Quaterback for a number of games? There are no FAs out there that would materially effect the Defense more than then the inability to score on a naked Offense.

There's a risk-reward balance here. Keeping Cassel dramatically lowers the risk of the season falling apart; the ability to sign premium FAs raises the chances of ending the season with a balanced, championship-caliber team. Personally, I'd rather take the chance on greatness.

As for the "NO quarterback," heading into 2008 Matt Cassel counted as "NO quarterback" too. What we'd really have is a recovering Tom Brady and an unproven Kevin O'Connell. That's a lot of question marks, but I'd still wager a lot of teams would be willing to trade places with that QB depth chart.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

My personal view is that Matt Cassel found lightning in a bottle. While Brady's injury sucked beyond belief, it allowed the patriots to showcase a decent quarterback who got to throw to one of the most talented wide receiving corps, if not the most talented, in the NFL. And it got to do so against a lame NFC West schedule.

I just don't really understand why people are overthinking this so much.

We found lightning in a bottle. Anything we get for Cassel is more than we could ever have expected. It's a flat out boondogle. He'll be traded. If more than one team is interested, we'll do great. If only one is interested, we'll probably have to settle.

If Brady can't go for significant time, we're f-ed, with or without Matt Cassel.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

Yo Sunny D,

I am actually in Toronto until Thursday when I head back down south to Havana. I lived in Belize for a decade (great diving) and even better fishing (I own a fishing company that send guests all over the world to fish) I moved from Belize to Cuba 2 years ago run run my business there and now I rotate between Belize,Toronto and Havana. If you ever want to dive Belize let me know and I will have my office manager in Belize set you up. no problem.
As to this thread, I would also argue that the 14.6 would be far better spent on redoing Big Vince and a couple of our other soon to be 9 end of the 2009 season) free agents, rather than an as an insurance policy for TB. Our D needs to get better (younger and faster) over the next 2 drafts and trading Cassel is an excellent way to do this, whatever we end up getting for him.
Respcts,

Rich

Hi Rich, Thanks for the offer. Now if I can just get my wife to dive - but she is claustrophobic.

I agree with you about the best use of 14.6 salary cap space (if the Pats trade Cassel) by extending our many soon to be FA's in 2010. Much rather than (as some sugggest) using it for this years free agency class.

My quick hindsight is that Pats do much better at drafting / developing players than they do in getting productive FA's. My common sense would tell me that with all the game tape available at the NFL level for FA's- it should be easier to sucessfully project how FA's could contribute to the team rather than draftees (who you dont have game tape on competing against NFL competition). Yet it seems each year we get a few too many unproductive Vets: Duane Starks, Monte Beisel, Fernando Bryant, Chad Brown, Marcus Pollard and other TE's that don't stick. Yet in the draft Pats do quite well in comparison to rest of the league.

That contradiction is what my little mind cannot comprehend.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Brady *should* definitely be back playing again by this summer. That would be nearly 10 months recovery time.

Ronnie Brown blew out his knee (ACL) in week 7, 2007 and was back playing with no problem in 2008 - at arguably a far more physical position than QB

Go look at other physical sports where similar ACL injuries have occurred, like Soccer and again its about 7-8 months for an ACL (England's Michael Owen foe example)

TB has nearly a year to get ready and I can see him playing a full part in training camp and start taking some hits fairly early to see how he is

Cassel gets traded - no two ways about it

 

[Patjew]

The sore thumb sticking out in all of this is that Brady may be absolutely no better in week 8 than he is in week 1. He may be 100% in preseason. Or he may be 50% in week 17. Without that knowledge and based on the fact that so much of your recommendation is contingent upon that, it's really hard to comment on this.

 

[Nestapats]

I look at it like this:

1. The patriots don't want to give over 14 mil to Cassel, i think everyone agrees on that one. 2. Cassel won't sign a long term deal, because the patriots would try to sign him for as less money as possible and he will eventually become a benchwarmer again. Cassel is loyal, but not stupid: he will rather sign with another team and take less money, because he would be the starter.
So basically Cassel is already gone.

Everybody has a different opinion on what cassel will bring in. I truly belief he can get us a 1st and something because GM's are not THAT stupid to go after a rookie QB, especially this years class which looks pretty bad.

Even if Tom is not back by week 1, we're not going to occupy our salary cap with Cassel, that's just not the patriots philosophy. They would either sign a veteran QB or BB is going to surprise everyone once again and prove everybody wrong that o'connell is able to start and win games for them till TB is back. However i still don't listen to any reports about his status, because it's all BS. I'm not saying he's fine, just saying we don't know!!! It just doesn't matter, cause they're not going to keep cassel for 14 mil.

I don't think O'connell can do what cassel did for us last year, but who thought cassel could do what he did after the KC game?? Everyone is just speculating, but only the patriots know where they are at this point and they will do what's in their interest. But since we're all speculating here i will too :disagreement:

1. Trade Cassel to minnesota for their first this year and a conditional 4th rounder next year, which could become as high as a 2nd rounder or something.
2. Brady will be the starter come day one, if not O'connell/veteran will prove to be good enough to fill in until TB is back (Hope he's ready for London though )
3. Patriots will use their two first rounders on TE Brandon Pettigrew and CB D.J. Moore, 2nd rounders on Connor Barwin and Louis Delmas/Patrick Chung, They'll probably trade some picks too for next year.
4. Patriots will go 19-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WITH TOM BRADY

 

[SunnyDenmark]

I whole heartedly agree with one of the posters that FO has a 'Cassel' plan A, B and C already in place for most contingences. They are not just winging it obviously...

Further to my original post - I could see a variation of my 'Keep Cassel unless fantastic trade offer is made' to be a 'Plan B contingency' such as:

First days of FA try to sign a decent Veteran QB for short 1 year rental (at moderate price / signing bonus). feks, Garcia or such. Then if do sign such a QB- trade Cassel before April '09 draft.

Naturally - most teams would like a Vet QB for reasonable money
But I could imagine for someone like Garcia - much more attractive to be on a team that is a legitimate Lombardi contender like Pats instead of rebuilding team / pretender.

This 'risk / reward ' situation as Patchick puts it - makes it so intruiging; at what level of 'insurance' to you buy incase TB is not ready to go start of season?

This Cassel situation sure makes this offseason that much more interesting rather than the usual - which JAGS are Pats going to pick up for bargain basement prices at the end of free agency period?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I look at it like this:

1. The patriots don't want to give over 14 mil to Cassel, i think everyone agrees on that one. 2. Cassel won't sign a long term deal, because the patriots would try to sign him for as less money as possible and he will eventually become a benchwarmer again. Cassel is loyal, but not stupid: he will rather sign with another team and take less money, because he would be the starter. So basically Cassel is already gone.

Except that if he signed a long-term deal, it would obviously mean more money in the short-term (Cassel is not stupid enough to sign, say, a 2 yr/$5M deal), and he could still be traded in the future.

Everybody has a different opinion on what cassel will bring in. I truly belief he can get us a 1st and something because GM's are not THAT stupid to go after a rookie QB, especially this years class which looks pretty bad.

Matt Millen and Al Davis say hi.

I don't think O'connell can do what cassel did for us last year, but who thought cassel could do what he did after the KC game?? Everyone is just speculating, but only the patriots know where they are at this point and they will do what's in their interest. But since we're all speculating here i will too :disagreement:

You're right; nobody knows how this is going to turn out.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

First days of FA try to sign a decent Veteran QB for short 1 year rental (at moderate price / signing bonus). feks, Garcia or such. Then if do sign such a QB- trade Cassel before April '09 draft.

The flaw with this is that the Patriots are limited to the salary cap room on hand, which limits the amount of money the player could get.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Cassel cannot stay here with the cap situation as it is

Without signing a few of our vets to extentions and looking for a difference maker on defense in the CB/S area in FA, this team will go nowhere in 2009and onto the next few years,Brady or no Brady

This team CANNOT keep 2 QBs which total over 20M in cap space on this roster or this team will be in trouble,So you can surely expect Cassel will be traded away in a great deal or a fair one but its going to happen or the future will be cloudy.

 

[moss4ever]

Hehe. I agree, Cassel needs to be traded no matter what! Although sometimes I think it's sad for Cassel that no matter how much he improves or shows, the Patriots organization will not choose him over Brady. He probably is content knowing the fans have seen his value and even discussed sometimes in seriousness of trading Brady instead.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

The sore thumb sticking out in all of this is that Brady may be absolutely no better in week 8 than he is in week 1. He may be 100% in preseason. Or he may be 50% in week 17. Without that knowledge and based on the fact that so much of your recommendation is contingent upon that, it's really hard to comment on this.

yeah..there is no way Brady is going to be 100% in September. That is just my gut feeling. Some of it will also depend on scheduling. If NE (Cassel) gets the Colts and the Steelers in the first couple weeks and Cassel beats them both, then it is a situation, even if only all over the media which I am sure it will be.

Pats best use for Cassel if I were GM. Keep him. Build up his resume, while getting the team some wins and further increasing his trade value while TFB gets stronger....

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Cassel cannot stay here with the cap situation as it is

Without signing a few of our vets to extentions and looking for a difference maker on defense in the CB/S area in FA, this team will go nowhere in 2009and onto the next few years,Brady or no Brady

This team CANNOT keep 2 QBs which total over 20M in cap space on this roster or this team will be in trouble,So you can surely expect Cassel will be traded away in a great deal or a fair one but its going to happen or the future will be cloudy.

Realistically, how much cap space in 2009 could we free up by restructuring Brady's contract?

 

[Spiral]

I think the Patriots can draft their way to a better defense next year, partly because one particular area of their defense (i.e. secondary) was so bad last year.

In 1981, Bill Walsh had four picks in the top 65, and he drafted defensive backs with three of the four picks. Immediately after the draft, he was asked (probably by some snarky writer) how many of the three would play as rookies. "All of them," he said. They all did, and that team won the SB.

 

[Metaphors]

Pats best use for Cassel if I were GM. Keep him. Build up his resume, while getting the team some wins and further increasing his trade value while TFB gets stronger....

Derek Anderson says hi...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Realistically, how much cap space in 2009 could we free up by restructuring Brady's contract?

Unless a new CBA is agreed to, close to zero (his actual salary is only $5M, and he's due a $3M roster bonus on the first day of the league year; the remaining $6.6 is bonus amortization that can't be moved).

It might be possible to shave $2 million off, but that's about it.