CB Alphonso Smith a reach at #23?

[JSn]

I know the combine might help nail-down this guy's position in the draft, but he sounds New-England-esque. He could even be a shut-down guy with some coaching (sounds like he was tough to escape from in College). He's compact enough to be an NE kind of guy. I'm not sure if anyone here is actually familiar with the guy, but I wonder if he can move around on the field or if he's a "sidist" (rather play left or right).

 

[mayoclinic]

I know the combine might help nail-down this guy's position in the draft, but he sounds New-England-esque. He could even be a shut-down guy with some coaching (sounds like he was tough to escape from in College). He's compact enough to be an NE kind of guy. I'm not sure if anyone here is actually familiar with the guy, but I wonder if he can move around on the field or if he's a "sidist" (rather play left or right).

There's no doubt he's an outstanding CB, and may even be worthy value at 23. I have some doubts about him that high myself because of his height, but I expect I'm in the minority. He's competitive, aggressive, tough against the run for a smallish guy, and has terrific ball skills. He's be an outstanding early 2nd round pick at the very least.

I personally prefer DJ Moore, and think that Sean Smith has more upside, but again, it's hard to not like Alphonso Smith.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I know the combine might help nail-down this guy's position in the draft, but he sounds New-England-esque. He could even be a shut-down guy with some coaching (sounds like he was tough to escape from in College). He's compact enough to be an NE kind of guy. I'm not sure if anyone here is actually familiar with the guy, but I wonder if he can move around on the field or if he's a "sidist" (rather play left or right).

Yes.

 

[patchick]

Actually, in other threads he's being described as the "safe pick" at 23!

 

[mayoclinic]

Actually, in other threads he's being described as the "safe pick" at 23!

Wish I knew what that meant. Seymour, Warren, Mankins and Mayo were all considered "reaches" when we took them.

 

[patchick]

Wish I knew what that meant. Seymour, Warren, Mankins and Mayo were all considered "reaches" when we took them.

To me, a "reach" requires one or preferable both of the below:

- Passed over multiple superior talents to pick the player
- High likelihood that the player will still be available at your next pick

Unfortunately, many people use a numerical definition: "the draft guides ranked him between #28 and #39, therefore he's a reach at #23." Bleah.

But isn't the opposite of a "reach" a steal/bargain/value pick like Wilfork at #21, not a "safe" pick? To me at least, a safe pick is evaluated on a different spectrum -- A. Smith is called "safe" because his skills are well developed and project very closely to what the Patriots would be asking him to do. You'd have a high degree of confidence that he could become a starter in the Pats defense. As opposed to, say, Aaron Maybin or Sean Smith who have fabulous potential but greater risk.

 

[JSn]

OK, so with our need (NEED) at corner (and I like Hobbs, to be honest), would you take Smith at #23? He MIGHT be there in round #2, but to me, after watching McKelvin play on a crap team who doesn't deserve him, I'd want to make sure and give a good corner a proper home this year.

If we end up with a second #1, or even a really high #2 (in trade for Matt C) I'd be really tempted.

We might really have something in Wilhite and Wheatley, but shouldn't we really have four CB's anyway? I think I'd do it. I want a DE and a SS, but I think they can be got in Rd. #2. My first two picks would be CB and OLB.

 

[mayoclinic]

To me, a "reach" requires one or preferable both of the below:

- Passed over multiple superior talents to pick the player
- High likelihood that the player will still be available at your next pick

Unfortunately, many people use a numerical definition: "the draft guides ranked him between #28 and #39, therefore he's a reach at #23." Bleah.

But isn't the opposite of a "reach" a steal/bargain/value pick like Wilfork at #21, not a "safe" pick? To me at least, a safe pick is evaluated on a different spectrum -- A. Smith is called "safe" because his skills are well developed and project very closely to what the Patriots would be asking him to do. You'd have a high degree of confidence that he could become a starter in the Pats defense. As opposed to, say, Aaron Maybin or Sean Smith who have fabulous potential but greater risk.

I think those are reasonable definitions, and would agree that according to that Alphonso Smith is a reasonably "safe" pick. Cliff Sintim would probably fall into the same category as someone whose skills are well developed and are likely to be a reasonable fit. Of course, according to your definitions a player can both be "safe" and a "reach" - Smith could be "safe" based on his skills and fit to the Pats system, but a reach at #23 if we passed up superior talents/value to pick him.

 

[BradyManny]

I personally prefer DJ Moore, and think that Sean Smith has more upside, but again, it's hard to not like Alphonso Smith.

From what I saw of them, I like them both, but just like Moore a little bit better, if for no other reason than he's longer.

There's similar CBs to be had later, too. So, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[DW Toys]

There's no doubt he's an outstanding CB, and may even be worthy value at 23. I have some doubts about him that high myself because of his height, but I expect I'm in the minority. He's competitive, aggressive, tough against the run for a smallish guy, and has terrific ball skills. He's be an outstanding early 2nd round pick at the very least.

I personally prefer DJ Moore, and think that Sean Smith has more upside, but again, it's hard to not like Alphonso Smith.

Mayo, You are right again. We have our plethora of small CBs. There must be a 6' or better CB in the world that is quick twitch. I wish that way too tall Champ Bailey was quick twitch or maybe the Cromarties.
DW Toys

 

[patchick]

Of course, according to your definitions a player can both be "safe" and a "reach" - Smith could be "safe" based on his skills and fit to the Pats system, but a reach at #23 if we passed up superior talents/value to pick him.

Interesting point! I'd guess some of the Mankins detractors would have called him precisely that, a safe reach. (By my definition he wasn't a reach, though, since there weren't other super-obvious picks at #32 and he wasn't expected to be around at #64.)

 

[VJCPatriot]

I don't think he's a reach. Maybe he'd slip to early 2nd at the latest. But the Pats don't have an early second so if they want him they'll have to take him at 23. Moore is another good prospect with value added return ability who I would consider at #23 as well.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think those are reasonable definitions, and would agree that according to that Alphonso Smith is a reasonably "safe" pick. Cliff Sintim would probably fall into the same category as someone whose skills are well developed and are likely to be a reasonable fit. Of course, according to your definitions a player can both be "safe" and a "reach" - Smith could be "safe" based on his skills and fit to the Pats system, but a reach at #23 if we passed up superior talents/value to pick him.

I was with you until the last part - please define a superior "value."

I consider Alphonso Smith a "safe" pick at #23 because he is a perfect fit for a NE CB as profiled by patchick. That makes him a solid Patriots' value, and it coincides with a position some grade a high priority, and most would agree is in a constantly updating cycle for the team. Some say D.J. Moore, whom I also like, but whom I grade a distinct second to Alphonso - he's not as consistent.

Sintim is a 'safer' pick, but not what I'd call a "safe" pick. He is a good fit for NE, plays at a position of need, and is fairly talented and productive. Where he breaks away from "safe" is my projection of him to a new position at SILB and the possibility that he's near his ceiling as an OLB.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

There is no doub tin my mind, that Smith is the best fit at CB in this draft for the Pats.

However, I think there are other vertically challenged, uber quick twitch corners with superior ball skills that may not be as good as Smith, that could develop just as nicely, but could be obtained later in the draft.

Take Asher Allen for example. A slightly taller clone of Smith, but he is only a declared junior, who hasn't had quite the success of Smith, but projects well in our defense, especailly if he has a year or two to develop.

 

[VJCPatriot]

There is no doub tin my mind, that Smith is the best fit at CB in this draft for the Pats.

However, I think there are other vertically challenged, uber quick twitch corners with superior ball skills that may not be as good as Smith, that could develop just as nicely, but could be obtained later in the draft.

Take Asher Allen for example. A slightly taller clone of Smith, but he is only a declared junior, who hasn't had quite the success of Smith, but projects well in our defense, especailly if he has a year or two to develop.

For CBs, I'd prefer the guy who projects to contribute right away considering the window we are working in. We need to try to win it all while Brady/Moss are both still in their prime and while our 1st round defensive line is still all together. It would be real nice to bump Hobbs down to #2 on the depth chart where he belongs and at the same time acquire leverage/insurance in case he decides to hit free agency next year.

 

[JSn]

Stumbled across another mock draft that has us taking Smith.

Gonzo's Pre-Combine NFL MockDraft - Daily Norseman

While the Patriots have always managed to put together a pretty decent front seven, their secondary is basically held together by duct tape and chicken wire. Smith reminds some people of Antoine Winfield. . .he's not the biggest guy on the field (he's only 5'9"), but he's not afraid to stick his nose into the play and get physical against the run despite his size limitations. He also has the added dimension of being an outstanding return man.

 

[BPF]

There is no doub tin my mind, that Smith is the best fit at CB in this draft for the Pats.

However, I think there are other vertically challenged, uber quick twitch corners with superior ball skills that may not be as good as Smith, that could develop just as nicely, but could be obtained later in the draft.

Take Asher Allen for example. A slightly taller clone of Smith, but he is only a declared junior, who hasn't had quite the success of Smith, but projects well in our defense, especailly if he has a year or two to develop.

He's not only the best CB for the Pats but I consider him this draft’s best pure CB, slightly ahead of Moore. When Smith locks on a player, he's very difficult to break away from like he's stuck on the WR's hip pocket. Jenkins, in my eyes, is a FS type, who doesn't recover well when getting beat. Davis has all the tools NFL people look for but he is too inconsistent and needs a lot of work technique wise. Plus he has some character flaws. If Smith was a few inches taller and a little stronger he’d be considered a top 10-15 prospect. Moore's weakness is his lacks of consistent aggressiveness, a problem Smith doesn't have. When I've seen him play he will sometimes watch the action when he's not directly involved. But the guy can locate the ball and make plays, can't argue that. He has great hands from playing WR and makes quick decisions in coverage. His issues are easily correctable and he will be a fine pro. He would fit in w/the Pats scheme as well but I like Smith a little better.

 

[Kontradiction]

Eh, I'd personally rather see us pick up either another LB (ILB or OLB depending on whether or not A.D. stays on the outside) or OL help in the first round. Personally, I believe these are our two areas of need. We went CB in last year's draft and supposedly got a "steal" in Wheatley. We'll see him next year when he gets back from injury. Wilhite also looked like he was making progress and should be even more polished next year so we can get a better look at him. If we're going to draft a CB, I would rather do it in rounds 2-3.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Smith has everything I'm looking for in a CB except one thing- height. He is one player that I'm really interested in seeing that "measurable" confirmed at the combine. I've seen him listed at 5-7, 5-8, and 5-9.

So what is it? Does it really make a difference? I guess that's why I'm still not sold on him.

BTW, my thoughts on "reaches". Tell me in 3 years if a player was a 'reach" or not. Would Tom Brady have been a reach if he was drafted in the 3rd round? I had him as a Patriots pick in the 5th round, I'm always too happy to point out.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Smith has everything I'm looking for in a CB except one thing- height. He is one player that I'm really interested in seeing that "measurable" confirmed at the combine. I've seen him listed at 5-7, 5-8, and 5-9.

So what is it? Does it really make a difference? I guess that's why I'm still not sold on him.

BTW, my thoughts on "reaches". Tell me in 3 years if a player was a 'reach" or not. Would Tom Brady have been a reach if he was drafted in the 3rd round? I had him as a Patriots pick in the 5th round, I'm always too happy to point out.

Senior Bowl weigh-in: 5' 8 7/8"